Gutmann pug

Dont want to start a massive mines faster than yours debate but lets take two examples...say a MY00 classic, uk car against a new age WRX. Pretty much the same power, all bar 10 bhp, but whats the performance difference like?
Only wondering coz im sure the classic is lighter but is the difference neglidgable or noticable?

Same i guess goes for a classic WRX 250bhp compared to say a standard STi7 or 8?

classic always looks as if it would be quicker to me...

millband

I'd say "noticeable" for sure. I went from a UK MY97 to a MY01 WRX last October and I still think it's slower (but not s-l-o-w by any means). Part of that feel definately comes from much higher perceived build quality, sound deadening, increased ride comfort, etc of newer car. Much better crash-worthyness in new car also.

Steve

greasemonkey

Given the same engine outputs, an old shape car would be quicker in a straight line.

Depends which models you compare and what optional bits are fitted of course, but the base UK WRX is something like 150kg heavier (maybe more) than the old shape UK Turbo 2000, so the newer cars need a bit more under the bonnet for the power to weight ratio be the same.

The old shape car also has a slightly lower drag coefficient and frontal area than the Bugeye, although the MY03 facelift redresses this balance a little.

The Denso ECU's also seem to develop power in a slightly smoother way to the JECS ones, which makes the newer cars feel (although this is probably deceptive) slower again. Add in the reduced NVH and the difference in "feel" will be bigger again.

easyrider

I moved from a UK MY98 to a MY01-as said above,i agree with it all-but have to add that the 01 doesnt feel as willing to go as the 98 + you dont get as much of a punch when the boost comes in.Having said that-ive just decatted my up/down pipes and it feels much stronger than my 98 ever did-even when it had a dawes device on it(the MY98 car that is),and feels MUCH more like the power characteristics a car like this should have-with the added bonus of the build quality/refinment over the classics.

easy

chrisp

sticking to just the facts so I am not accussed of bias

my00 classic UK 1235kgs 215bhp = 174bhp/ton
my01 wrx uk 1385kgs 215bhp = 155bhp/ton
my02 wrx uk 1385kgs 215bhp = 155bhp/ton
my03 wrx uk 1395kgs 223bhp = 160bhp/ton

and just to add a couple more for reference :

my03 STi Uk 1470kgs 261bhp = 177bhp/ton
my03 STi PPP Uk 1470kgs 300bhp = 204bhp/ton

chrisps rubbish import JDM RA = 1240kgs 276bhp+ = 222bhp/ton

Gutmann pug

The new age cars look that bit heavier etc than the classics.....150kg is alot of weight though. Mind you the interior etc really was a must change for Subaru IMHO

So what would a classic STi and a PPP STi8 type uk be like compared against eachother in a straight line? I guess the trouble is there arent that many bogo scoobs about to make the comparison. Classic STi would be giving away a fair few gee gees but the 8 is much heavier

chrisp

classic sti nearly 20bhp/ton more

chrisp

Just so the evo owners don't feel left out

EVO 8 FQ300 - 1410kgs 300bhp = 212bhp/ton

easyrider

So basically theres not a lot in it!!!

greasemonkey

That's a bit of an uneven fight, and it's difficult to give an accurate answer especially as you haven't told us which particular classic STi you're talking about, and whether it was running on the right fuel.

An STi Version 5 or Version 6 Type R/RA would have the legs on an STi Type UK PPP, let alone a standard one. Something like 230kg lighter, with more power, a higher rev limit, a shorter ratio gearbox, and the need to make one less gearchange if you're talking about 0-60.

However, all this talk is a little pointless, nobody buys cars purely on the basis of what wins 0-60 wankathons

Gutmann pug

I guess power to weight is a pretty good indicator but traction, gearing etc must come into it as well......straight line only im talking about

Gutmann pug

greasemonkey if you think this talk is pointless then dont bother answering its as easy as that.....


i was and still am interested coz although i have an STi 8 (MY03!!!) i still love the look etc of the classic

you brought up 0-60.....nobody else did

easyrider

I think is better to ask how the power is put down compared to looking at power/weight figs-also driveability comes into it.

chrisp

Just the fact a new UK STI is about the same power to weight as standard UK classic MY00

Gutmann pug

What was its 1/4 mile though? 0-60 is a bit false with number of gear changes etc

easyrider

i think the original question was about UK cars

Gutmann pug

i thought chrisp was talking about a uk car???

sorry i mixed it up bringing the classic sti bit into it...ignore that

chrisp

i was but saw the 250bhp wrx classic bit in your first post but I have deleted the posts as not to confuse

chrisp

At the end of the day most magazines timed a classic UK turbo between 5 and 5.5 seconds to 60 and around 14 for a quarter mile. Plenty of guys on here have reproduced those figures at Santa Pod in standard or near standard cars.

I aint daft though given the choice of a classic turbo and new sti, it would be the new sti

easyrider

UK cars were only 215bhp 99 onwards were they not???

Gutmann pug

so what about an RB5.....you could have ppp with that couldn't you? I wonder how that would compare, either that or a P1 with a new age STi.......

easyrider

I think that the RB5 was still 215 bhp-but dont quote me on that

Gutmann pug

240bhp with sports performance pack

virgin

Chrisp.

Just so the evo owners don't feel left out

EVO 8 FQ300 - 1410kgs 300bhp = 212bhp/ton.....................

Any idea about EVO 7 FQ300 AND STANDARD EVO7 ?

Better still, 0-60 times for the whole lot? as in the MY models as well

I know I am a "wankathon" for asking, but it would still be interesting, I mean why know about all the really anorak stuff, and not know the basics.......example

yes sir, they are fast, they do 0-60 in 21 seconds, oh great I will buy one, in am really interested in the ecu capacitor rating

Gutmann pug

virgin,

what on earth are you on about? lost me there i must admit

easyrider

Oh dear--flamesuit time


I personally would pick a new age 01 onwards with morrettes ect over the classic-Dont get me wrong,i still think the classic looks good, just looks a bit dated now.

chrisp

The E7 FQ300 was about 50kgs lighter so it would have a better power to weight ratio that the E8 FQ300. The standard E7 is slower than both the 7 and 8 FQs on paper.

In performance terms they are all around 5 seconds to 60 and only a few 10ths in it. This why its laughable when evos are suppose to be so much quicker, (over a standard UK turbo yes) but on a JDM scoob they are very close.