blubs

Hi All,

Anyone know how long points stay on your licence?

Mine are three years old in August so can I get them wiped off and how do I do it?

Also, if they are wiped off at three years old, why oh why do our friendly insurance companies require us to reveal them for five years?

Thanx in advance,

blubs

Neil Smalley

They are 'active' for three years but you can only have them removed after 4 years. As for the the insurance question No idea, although some offenses drunk driving etc can't be removed after 4 years.

barge

They are 'active' for three years but you can only have them removed after 4 years, This is done by sending the licence + some dosh to Swansea and they XXXXXXXXX through the offending line, but the insurance companies sometimes like to see the license so the best thing to do is to send in the form + some dosh saying you have lost your license, they send a duplicate with DUPLICATE stamped on it but all points over 4 years are not shown.

Drink Driving stays for 10 years

Cheers

Adam M

Does anyone know how to get hold of the new style license card with the photo and any points marked on a separate sheet?

AlastairB

Adam,

Info on the photocard licences can be found here:

Geezer

blubs,
Why do you want the points removed anyway? If they are not active after three years, then what harm can they do? Your insurance comany is peffectly entitled to demand knowledge of offences as far back as they like (albeit very annoyingly!). If you want the points removed so they do not show up for insurance purposes, then you are failing to declare information to the insurer that they require, which would invalidate your insurance.

I know you too well, you are obviously up to no good. so just stop it!

Geezer

P.S. How's the car? And did you?

blubs

Geezer,

Ever tried hiring a car when they see your licence adorned like a christmas misery tree?

Even when the points are out of date, if they are on the licence it's a real pain in the cheeks.

Don't worry, I'm not in the habit of non-disclosing, lets face it, after paying over 20g for a car, you'd be a fool to invalidate your insurance wouldn't you?

Cars ok so far..........and.......yes.

blubs.


ps They've got a P1 in Abergele which is a cancelled order. If anyone wants it, they can have it ready for the end of June. I' however, am not allowed to have it..............sniff.

MorayMackenzie

Geezer,

Speeding is a criminal offence. At the moment it isn't recorded on a Criminal Record. (Hope the gov. don't read that, might give them ideas! )

Offences recorded on a criminal record are subject to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. This act specifies that after a certain period (depending on the offence) has elapsed, the "rehabilitated" offender no longer has to declare the offence.

So if speeding isn't deemed serious enough to be placed on a criminal record, why is it reasonable to assume that insurance companies have the right to demand the information even after the law itself has discounted the offence from the points system operating on your driving record?

Moray
(Satan's little helper)

Richard F

And how would an insurance company find out if you once had points but got them removed?

Nope, when they're due to come off, they come off and I tell no-one.

Nightmare

I agree with Moray and Richard..no way when my points come off (all on same day, and its LOTS) will I still declare them. A ban stays for five years, but points only stay for 3.

Geezer.... If you get pulled for speeding by plod, and he is considering either a 'dont be silly' or a fixed penalty, and he sees Mr licence with points already on it (even if they are out of date) whats he more likely to do???

This isnt non-disclosure by the way. The question the insurers ask is 'do you have any convictions' - after three years, the correct answer is 'no'

he says hopefully

Geezer

I'm not saying I agree with the insurers, 'cos they are a bunch of tw@ts! But, they can ask for whatever they want, the same way that they have every right not to insure you for being too young etc. It has nothing to do with the law, or whether you think a certain offence is bad enough to have a criminal record, or whatever. When you sign the contract, you state that all of the information you have supplied is correct, which <B> is </B> legally binding, and that would invalidate your insurance.

I'm sure it is virtually impossible to find out if you had points on your licence once they have expired, but with the advent of free availability of information from all sorts of government agencies, it surely cannot be long before they hold information about your past/present convictions anyway.

Geezer

AlastairB

According to the insurance ombudsman, <I>as I read it</I> if a conviction is spent then it needn't be declared, even if asked about.

To quote from their site: "The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 ensures that no matter how interested the underwriter may be, he may not look at convictions which have been spent under that Act. "

(Not quite sure if a driving endorsment spent after 4 years falls under that)

They <I>have</I> upheld complaints in the past where insurers have tried to void policies (surprise!) where people have not declared <B>spent</B> driving convictions, and the ombudsman has forced the company to reinstate the policy.

Obviously each case is dealt with individually, but the general principle seems to be that it is <I>not</I> willful misreprestation (which would permit a policy to be voided) if the conviction is spent.

Alastair



[This message has been edited by AlastairB (edited 30-05-2000).]

MorayMackenzie

Geezer,

It's not what _I_ think shouldn't go on a criminal record, it's what the _law_ states. Speeding is currently not recorded on a criminal record.

With regards to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, after the alotted period, you do not have to declare the offence anymore (with the possible exception of declaration to the police, I will have to check up on this.).

Insurance companies may ask for the information based on a longer period than the law decides is appropriate (e.g. 3years for a fixed penalty speeding offence), but it doesn't mean that their asking isn't an infringement on your civil rights.

I would take this matter to the insurance ombudsman, if necessary, but this is unlikely, 'cos I keep renewing with the same company, and the points I did once have will be on their own internal records anyway... ho hum.

I do hope that you realise how much of an impact the information that you suggest will be made public would have on the rights of an individual in our society. Hey, do you think I'll be able to access your medical records on the web? Scary!

Moray
(Who works on the development and support of various Police Information Systems used by a number of UK constabularies. )

MorayMackenzie

PS: Alistair posted quicker than me... I must type verrrrry sloooowly.

Graham Stocker

Drink Driving stays on your Licience for 11 years , speeding , Jumping Lights etc are on for three years. Graham.

Brendan Hughes

Moray; do you have anything to do with DNA data? If so a friend of mine might be interested in a conversation for his dissertation.

BJH (currently studying LLM in International Criminal Law)

Nightmare

blubs - sounds like a blinding plan.

but as you say...the insurers wouldnt make as much, so why should they? b**tards..

did what you suggested....total so far (including what it cost parents ot insure me when I was 17)

approx £28K..... and Im only 26!

AlastairB

Graham,

Just to clarify - as has been said earlier in the thread - 'normal' offences are not spent until <I>four</I> years, tho they are only considered for three years when totting up. They <I>do</I> stay on your licence for four years however, and should be declared during that period if insurers enquire.

In some cases it's 4 years from the offence, other times 4 years from the date of conviction.

All the info is here:

blubs

Thanx All,

Lets face it, insurance companies will take every opportunity to **** you with a ragmans trumpet. Why else are they located in all the highest profile city centre rent spots that no other company can afford to operate from?

I could rant for years about insurance companies but I won't bore you. However, just tot up for a moment, from the first day you insured yourself in a vehicle, to the current policy, how much you have spent. It's frightening, especially when, like most people on this board, you have driven performance vehicles as soon as you could afford them.

It's even scarier for those of you out there who have never made a claim. What have you to show in return? A big duck egg thats what.

Yes, people will say "But you've had insurance cover for your money".
Agreed, though wouldn't it make more sense if Joe Bloggs Insurance said to ther 17 year old with his GTE wannabe;

"Ok, it's £1,000 for your insurance this year. If you make no claims, and get no convictions, we'll give you £300 quid back".

The insurance company is a winner as if he drives sensibly, (which he is more likely to do with a promise of a cash return), they've 'made' £700 with no pay-out.

If he makes a claim, then their original premium has reflected that risk so no change to today's run of the mill policies.

It's probably fatally flawed, but I'm suprised some sort of similar 'incentive' insurance scheme hasn't already been done, (unless it has).

Mind you, the profits would probably fall to 300% so I can understand their trepidation!

Phew!!!

blubs