nicebloke36

just had four brand new goodyear f1's put on [18"], then about an hour later went out to the shops, both me kids in the car...
as i pulled out the drive i thought i heard/felt and tiny sort of bump from the left front tire [as if it had gently rolled off the lip of a kerb], didnt think too much of it, filled my car with petrol then was returning up a two laned curving bank road [wet], i drove exactly the same way ive driven that part of the road for last 6 years.... when approaching the yop of the bank as road straightened and became flat.... car just lost ALL GRIP
not even any 'feel' you normally get when you start to slip... it was all i could do to control the car from hitting oncoming traffic... i managed to steer it up the grass verge at which point it went up onto two wheels only [drivers side], it scraped alll the pasenger side along a wodden fence and a few trees..... ;
luckily we are all ok..
car looks a bloody mess, hope its just body panels,, i managed to start it up to pull it completely off the road...no knocking or smoke or steam or odd noises,,,,... however, the passenger side front tire was completely off the wheel.....
coppers said they thought that looked odd.... dont know whether it has happened during the crash or wether the tire has been fitted incorrectly and slipped off the wheel causing the crash....
anyway, my neck is in serious grief, as is half my back....[as i held onto my son with my left arm as we went out of control [he had his belt on but sort of reflex action on my behalf]
well the car is waiting to be seen by the accident assessor...
wots happens next ??????
it was only me onvolved........ can i claim wiplash against my own insurance company [liverpool victoria] do they do courtesy cars???
any advice in any way related would be greatly appreciated and help as therapy lol, i am now scoobless...... still cant believe it happened... i was only doing forty !!! its a fifty road !!!!
dont know whether people need to take a but more care when they have had new tires fitted, but ....
at a loss.. paul

GuyM

Bad news, sorry to hear it, but thank god youre all OK eh!

Do you think it was something to do with dodgy tyre fitting or different pressures? Maybe some oil on the road, or even just snot that you get this time of year, especially after a good deluge.

dhorwich

If you get proper evidenece with regard to the tyres/fitting the garage 'may' repeat 'may' be able to be held responsibe, but i dont think you can claim from your insurance company for compensation for yourself, other people in the car at the same time can claim regardless of who's fault it was but not sure about the driver.

Dan

[Edited by dhorwich - 11/22/2003 2:06:39 PM]

nigsy

bad one

Type R

When you have new tyres fitted they are generally much more slippier than usual, I have always been warned by TN about this.

met

mate thats a nightmare, so glad your all ok though, the tyre shouldnt have needed scrunning in though? i alwasy thought it was just bike tyres that are set in a fil to remove them from the mould & therefore are super slippy when new & require proper scrubbing in before the film is worn, does anyone know if that applies to car tyres, once again sorry about the car, but thanks god your all ok ,

Phil WRX 01

Really sorry to hear that mate glad to hear ur all ok .

scooby_si

yes new tyres do need scrubbing in for a few hundred miles init if you've lost all grip surely it aint just one tyre coming off rim sorry to hear of yer incidnet mind & fortunately all (that is truely important) is well
If it's only you involve are you sure you even wana go insurance route? guna give u sum fruity renuewals i wooda thought but hey i dunno owt about how these things usually work.....
Si

greasemonkey

Have to agree with the others regarding the "slipperiness" of brand new tyres. They're invariably covered with mould release compound and extreme care must be taken until they're scrubbed into the geometry of your car, especially on wet roads. Unfortunately the fact that you say you were driving along "exactly the same way" as previously tends to indicate that you weren't thinking about this as much as you should have been.

Even if the left front had deflated, or even blown off the rim, you wouldn't suddenly have lost all grip, you should have had more than enough from the other three to bring the car to a halt under control, so this alone suggests that the problem with the wheel was more likely to be the result of the accident, rather than the cause of the whole thing.

All that said, none of us is in a position to offer anything more than an educated guess. I would imagine that your insurance company will want the car inspected, and in this case you should alert them to your suspicions. If they suspect there's any fault in the tyre or its fitting, they'll make their own efforts to reclaim the cost from the tyre fitter/manufacturer, in which case it should be relatively easy for you to jump on the bandwagon regarding any personal injury.

scoobyslut

Tyres do need to be "bedded in" for at least a couple of hundered miles before full use, but as you say, could of been a problem with the fitting. I'd get in touch with the garage that fitted them asa, get their engineer to inspect as well as your insurance company,otherwise, the tyre fitters amy get away with it, if it does end up as their fault.
Dont forget that you are claiming off your own insurance, so the higher you claim, the heavier the drop in no claims for next premium. It will also go onto the national database that all insurance companies use to check prior to giving customers quotes for insurance.
Aches and pains clear with tablets, so think yourself lucky,limbs and life do not, you will also need medical references as to your injuries, with ref to police notes made on site, or Hospital visit to casualty within 24hrs of incident, then your insurance company will send you for a private medical.

Gary C

Tyres may need bedding in to get the best from them, but they should not have drastically less grip and should not cause the car to completly wash out.

Were you pushing it ?, If the tyre did come off the rim you will have a difficult time proving it. Are their any scratches on the road before the trouble spot to prove where the rim made contact with the road ?

I had a tyre failure on the M6, lead to the car flipping end over end (not fun in a soft top).

nicebloke36

thanks for all the words of concern and advice, in answer to a few questions.... i have never ever been advised that new tires need bedding in scrubbing in etc, only pads/discs... so i was oblivious of such a procedure, obviously if this advice had been given to me i would of paid it more attention..
as far as 'pushing it' goes... ill ask all the father and mother out there.... do you 'push' your car when you have your seven year old and 1 year old as passangers ????? .... no ?? i didnt think so..
ive had scoobs for the past four and a half years, ive driven them hard [on my own] in the wet... felt the edge of the cars limits and backed off, this was a shopping trip!!!!!! a pootle out to safeway to get some bread an milk and save my wife the hassle of going when she got in from work... didnt have my boy racer head on... just my a to b head...
car just totally lost it.... im thankful i wasnt on my own and 'pushing it' cos god only knows what the results would of been..
as far as paying myself and keeping it out of my insurers hands.... any guesses as to the cost of
front splitter/spoiler.passanger wing.passenger mirror.passenger door.rear passenger door. rear wing. rear spoiler and 'sti wing'.possibly 2 prodrive 18" alloys + f1 tires... plus respray/labour.vat.........
dont have that sort of money at hand... i reckon at least 4k..
as far as my claims go and being penalised for the accident, i have fully comp and full no claims protection... however that helps
ill have to wait until mon or tues to find out what is happening.... terrible thing is every time i relax i can see the car slipping out of control in my head and hear me little lad crying... as i 'calmly' told him [mid spin] dont worry son itll be ok....... weird how time slows and what you notice in those events...
to be honest im just an ordinary bloke, no boy racer, no track days etc, i cant even remember how i managed to turn the skid [drivers side rear biting me] into the opposite direction so i went in to the verge..
paul

greasemonkey

Wow. I suppose one of the pluses of this experience is that you have now. Small comfort I know.

That could be part of the reason. Gentle shopping trip = radio on, not really feeling/listening to the car, not expecting anything untoward to happen, and not quite ready to react if/when it does.

Works both ways, you might have felt it a little earlier. Anyway, moot point as there's not a lot of point speculating on such things. Could just have been a patch of spilled diesel on the road. The important thing is that you and yours got out of the car uninjured.

Piece of string question without seeing it. Lot depends on how much can be fixed, how much needs replacing, and whether there's any chassis damage. As you say, figure on at least £4K; could easily be double.

Lifting off the throttle quickly and/or dabbing the brakes once it was already sliding I'd imagine.

Type R

When I first read it, I thought it would be the tyres, I did something similar in my old car with new tyres in the wet, no damage only my pride dented, and the first thing I knew is when I was facing the wrong way, that was at low speed.

Hope you get better and get back on the road soon.

Might be worth while getting some tutition in car control in the wet to regain your confidence.

Spoon

Also something that hasn't been mentioned is that these "monkeys" at tyre fitting centres have been known on numerous occassions to well over-inflate tyres.

Do you stipulate the pressures and did they carry this out?

Might be worth checking your other 3 tyre pressures in case you were running on 50psi+.

ed_the_duck

Had a set of F1's fitted to an my00 (gds3 i think) And hammered them from the off.......in fact they had fantastic grip in the wet.
If the tyre was off the rim at normal speeds then thats suspicious if you just had them fitted earlier, could be poor fitting or a faulty tyre.....how experienced was the person that fitted it? gettin 225-18's on a rim is a not a job for the spotty school leaver type you get in some places.
Sounds like a stewards enquiry wouldn't go a miss.
What sort of speed was you doing when it went off? Did you go back to see if any diesel was in the road?

Good luck with your insurers. I hear lv are good

Ed

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for not being as sympathetic as others, but....
and

Thankfully, NO!

You were the driver and as such, would be held responsible had you hit someone/something else.

This is exactly why our premiums are so high, due to people claiming left right and centre for personal injury, even when they are at fault!

If you were able, what would be to stop you buying an insurance policy at £200, and driving into a brick wall, then claiming against yourself for £5000 in injuries caused by yourself?

Sorry for being a heartless b'stard, but I am glad that your sprogs were uninjured.

DrEvil

Nicebloke/Paul - yes, you have to scrub the tires in for 200-500 miles dependant on tyre.

The main think is all parties concerned are ok.

All the best, Alex

Apple

Might be a long shot but the little "bump" you heard on setting off - could it have been something like a nail / screw going into the tyre which started it going down and you found out later on the corner when it was too soft / too late...?

how the nail etc got there could be either by bad luck or "placed" if somebody's feeling malicious / general tw*t mentality

could be worth checking the tyre for sharp objects if you've still got it...

anyway, good to hear you all got out even though you'll be stiff the next (few) morning(s)

Apple

[Edited by Apple - 11/22/2003 10:56:45 PM]

johnfelstead

yes tyres do have lower grip levels when new, but not to the extent where you lose all grip, the chassis balance tends to stay. I doubt very much the tyre wasnt fitted properly as its imposible to inflate them unless they are fitted to the beading area properly, you certainly couldnt balance them and you would have felt a very major vibration through the steering. I would discount incorect fitment.

You may have a faulty tyre that has failed, but that would be visible too on inspection. It's more likely the tyre came off the rim as a result of hitting a kerb during the crash.

My gut feeling, based on you being adamant that you had zero grip with no other strange feelings driving the car prior to this is a diesel spillage on the road. I sugest you go back to the scene asap and check that out, as if that is the case you could claim against the council and save your insurance record.

Flat 4x4

I nearly did the same a few years ago on brand new Michelins on a damp/greasy road in a Mazda 323 4x4 Turbo (remember that!?)

It just slid sideways when coming off the throttle with steering angle at moderate speed (genuinely nothing stupid) to go into a slip road.

I got away with it but it was EXACTLY the same experience as driving on ice. Ice not Nice.

mart360

without wishing to be a killjoy.

most "accidents " occur on this type of a-b run.. as previously mentioned..

the other phrase is familiarity breeds contempt..

because we only get half a story we can only speculate as tro what happened.. for whats is worth i think you would have felt if you had any grip probs before this occured..

i had a brand new tyre on the wifes car and i hit a pothole, not much of a ding but the effest was immidiate, heavy steering and increased drag, it wasnt until went round a sweeping corner i thought anything was wrong.. althought the wife had said as soon as i had hit the pothole i had got a flat!!!

at least the kids are ok.. youd be devastated if anything happened to them... the cars replaceable

mart

nicebloke36

thanks mart, the most true words spoke here ...
i think that is what is cutting me up the most, the fact that i let this happen with my two kids in the car..... shook me up big big time..... could of been allot worse could of hit on coming traffic....hurt my own and somebody elses....[jeees]... but.. i just cant get my head round it.... steady pace... no distractions.. NO RADIO ON !! lol [ never listen to it ].. then !! just like that, out of control...
i spose its givem me a wake up call to the invunrebillity of the scoob..... IT AINT..... ITS JUST A CAR... and like anything mechanical it can fail
now i just hope its fixed and sorted as soon as possible...........
paul

pugoetru

i put four new tyres on my leggy and the grip was much worse for a few miles felt like driving on ice sometimes

as for whiplash grow up do you really want to pay it all back in increased premiums
i know i dont want to pay for your dodgy claim

Smiler1

Hi Paul
Sorry to hear about the car, glad you and the nippers are all ok.

If you need any help with the car let me know.

Cheers
Iain

nicebloke36

pugoetru ..... grow up.... ??? save your backbiting comments for at least a week after the event, I like you pay insurance, if you want to start pointing fingers point them at those who drive around without mot.insurance.tax..
If i can legally claim for whiplash, ie, LEGALLY as in IF i am entitled to claim for an injury, that may of been caused by diesel spill, or faulty tire.. then i fooking will. at the minute i can hardly move my neck and left arm.. this isnt bull****... if i were a 'dodgy claim' merchant welll... why the **** would i get insurance in the first place ???
as for what you pay for .. well i dont give a fock, this is the third accident ive been involved in in 20 years... two of which were someone rear ending me and someone driving into the side of me, in both they accepted responsibillity... i was advised by my insurance company to claim whiplash in both.. and i DIDNT, COS I DIDNT HAVE FOOKIN WHIPLASH... this time i DO...
no unless your a fooking chiropracter then **** up and **** off..
I cant believe there are people who so quickly get their knives into someone elses misfortunes.
i wasnt asking really for hugs and cuddles of you folk, just some insight into how this might of happened and some advice
i didnt expect or need tossers fooking preaching to me and making assumptions...
pugoetru.. i assume you think my claim may be dodgy because your judging me by YOUR OWN standards... god forbid a similar thing should happen to you, when for a split second you think your going to loose your kids cos of some **** up in the car
paul

mickjg

big sorry to here about your car i do know how you feel it happened to me but i hit a parked car when the car went out of control. you will get a car but only if it goes to one of there repairs if it goes to some one you use your self it is down to them if they give you a car or not.
once again sorry to here about the car.
mickjg

nicebloke36

sorry to loose it but comments like that make me fooking mad eanough to bite some c-nts ears off... my fooking kids were in the car... some t1t made an earlier comment about what was to stop me/anyone?? getting insured for 200notes and driving head on into a wall then claiming for 5k???
what was to stop us.... hmmmmm hard one to figure out daft c-nt... erm sanity...fear.....common sense.... morales..ethics.....being law abiding and not a fooking head the ball... what a fooking stupid statement...
the main reason why i put this thread on was
1) i wanted to hear similar incidents and peoples feeling views etc
2) to hear opinions on the tire thing [whihc i have and thank you]
3) to warn people like me who didnt realise tires needed scrubbing
4) to hear about accident victims insurance companies responses
Any kind comments are very much appreciated, the rest of you can ....go get insured for 200.00 then drive your cars in to a fooking big wall..!!!
ive sat here and read the slating prejudgemental comments the past couple of days and thought id keep my mouth shut ..but ive had enough of the tw-ts being self rightous..
i would never ever do anything to endanger the life of my family, or anyone else... and i find it unbelievable some ***** can sit here and insiduate that
paul
oh iain, its with the insurance approved garage now... dunno whether ill be at work though, got to see docs on mon... things are soo tight on my back an neck i havnt even been able to box [so must be bad eh!! lol ]

supersarbs

nice Bloke - Sorry to hear of your accident.

Most important thing you and the kids are OK.

If you have suffered whiplash then claim the money you pay your insurance for. Can't see the problem in a letigimate claim...

Pete

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Nicebloke, (?)

Please refrain from calling me a tit until such times as I use insults and abusive language to you.

As for calling me a daft c*nt... this is obviously indicative of your ignorance and pigheadedness. You think you can drive a fast car, but you can't, and when you prang it, dangering innocent lives, you try to blame tyre fitters, tyre manufacturers, diesel spillages etc etc.

Grow up you tosser.

As for my example regarding the insurance scenario, I laid this out to explain the main reason why a person cannot claim against their own insurance policy!
Believe it or not, but there are people in this corrupt world of our that would and DO, regularily try to do this. Perhaps in your goldfish bowl, you think everyone is law abiding and decent etc etc, but they aren't.
Open your eyes and smell the coffee.

I never suggested that you would do this act, but you obviously can't understand my english. Believe me, there are loads of folk who would jump at the chance, hence why you cannot claim against your own insurance!

You may as well stick to dishing out insults and abuse, as you obviously have a problem communicating on an adult level.

****.

[Edited by talizman - 11/23/2003 1:03:00 PM]