HELP ME SETTLE A DISPUTE - PLEASE
13 April 2000, 05:34 PM
#1
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Today I had an argument with a guy at work who said that a Lotus Elise would out corner a Scoobie - as said no it wouldn't as it's front wheel drive and a Scoob is 4 - but he was adamant that put to the test the Elise would come off better.
Your opinions please...
Ta
P
Your opinions please...
Ta
P
13 April 2000, 05:45 PM
#3
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well it ain't front wheel drive, thats for sure!!!
I think that the low centre of gravity, wider wheels, light-weight of the car and razor sharp steering would probably mean that the elise would be able to take any given corner..on track..faster than a scoob.
In the real world, where traction (not grip) comes into play on crappy surfaces and irregular cambers, the scoob would probably be quicker....
Im sure one of our driving experts (Simon, John Phil?) will confirm or ridicule me!
Night
I think that the low centre of gravity, wider wheels, light-weight of the car and razor sharp steering would probably mean that the elise would be able to take any given corner..on track..faster than a scoob.
In the real world, where traction (not grip) comes into play on crappy surfaces and irregular cambers, the scoob would probably be quicker....
Im sure one of our driving experts (Simon, John Phil?) will confirm or ridicule me!
Night
13 April 2000, 05:48 PM
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KF - interesting, but seeing as Autocar cant ever manage to get their figures even close to vaguely reliable I personally will take that with a poinch of salt!
I do not believe that an elise can match cornering grip with a scoob in the wet for starters!
I do not believe that an elise can match cornering grip with a scoob in the wet for starters!
13 April 2000, 05:53 PM
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Hi P.
Couple of things.....
Elise is rear wheel drive, not front as in your post (oops, just read our bad dreamers post again
).
As far as out cornering goes, would depend on a lot of things, such as speed, radius of corner, wet or dry, and so on. Depends on how you define "out corner" I suppose.
As Night' has said, we'll need to wait for the definative answer from some of our experts
I know what the Autocar test said, but having driven both in real world situations I think a well sorted Elise may have the edge.
Nice to see you back.
D.
Couple of things.....
Elise is rear wheel drive, not front as in your post (oops, just read our bad dreamers post again
).As far as out cornering goes, would depend on a lot of things, such as speed, radius of corner, wet or dry, and so on. Depends on how you define "out corner" I suppose.
As Night' has said, we'll need to wait for the definative answer from some of our experts
I know what the Autocar test said, but having driven both in real world situations I think a well sorted Elise may have the edge.
Nice to see you back.
D.
13 April 2000, 05:53 PM
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Nightmare,
You are right of course. Tis only a magazine article after all - it might have won the argument though. Interestingly a reprint of that test is amongst the pieces of literature I got from my helpful local Scooby garage when I went for a test drive.
Kev.
You are right of course. Tis only a magazine article after all - it might have won the argument though. Interestingly a reprint of that test is amongst the pieces of literature I got from my helpful local Scooby garage when I went for a test drive.
Kev.
13 April 2000, 05:59 PM
#7
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I left a bit out of that conversation... he told me it was front wheel drive... based on that I said it wouldn't .... if it's RWD then I'd doubt it even more... because my MX5 is and I frequently lose it on a bend...
Nicely dug out of a hole....
Hello D nice to see you again...
P
Nicely dug out of a hole....
Hello D nice to see you again...
P
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13 April 2000, 06:03 PM
#8
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hands up who is scared that there's a guy out there driving a sportscar who doesnt even know which are the driven wheels!?! 
D - plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery he he
Night
D - plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery
he heNight
13 April 2000, 06:27 PM
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You are all too kind
Well...
Lots of this will be generalisation, but so is the sweeping statement made by your friend, and the majority of magazine articles. (Nightmare - dead right) If he doesn't know which wheels are driving he has genuinely absolutely no idea where the limits are or even what they are.
However...
On the same type of tyres and in the wet or the dry I am sorry to say that the Elise will corner at neutral throttle quicker than the subaru.
With power on, the scoob is more likely to win in the wet but unlikely to in the dry.
A-B on B roads, Scooby has the edge maybe.
Make it really twisty and the lower weight, centre of gravity, better turn in and general agility of the Elise may overcome the road conditon disadvantage.
The MX5 is a completely different animal to the Elise. There is really no comparison between them in terms of handling. It is still a great car, but sadly not in the same league in this particular context.
I have driven a few Elises, some are better than other. But all of them require serious concentration and really driving to keep them on the limit. The scooby is an absolute breeze in comparrison, but the AWD has slight disadvantages (as we all know).
It also has one HUGE advantage and that is real world traction. But a truly skilled driver will punt an Elise round a tight twisty race track quicker than a Scoob.
The problem with mag articles (I haven't read it but assume the link above tells of a scooby out cornering an Elise?) is that the test drivers are *usually* not quite up to the task. So the fact that it is easier to push a scoob to the limit and bring it back, allows them to produce a better result.
Still... in the real world, the scoob is quicker over almost any A or B road and has four seats, a proper boot and the engine where it's supposed to be.
Regards
Simon
Well...
Lots of this will be generalisation, but so is the sweeping statement made by your friend, and the majority of magazine articles. (Nightmare - dead right) If he doesn't know which wheels are driving he has genuinely absolutely no idea where the limits are or even what they are.
However...
On the same type of tyres and in the wet or the dry I am sorry to say that the Elise will corner at neutral throttle quicker than the subaru.
With power on, the scoob is more likely to win in the wet but unlikely to in the dry.
A-B on B roads, Scooby has the edge maybe.
Make it really twisty and the lower weight, centre of gravity, better turn in and general agility of the Elise may overcome the road conditon disadvantage.
The MX5 is a completely different animal to the Elise. There is really no comparison between them in terms of handling. It is still a great car, but sadly not in the same league in this particular context.
I have driven a few Elises, some are better than other. But all of them require serious concentration and really driving to keep them on the limit. The scooby is an absolute breeze in comparrison, but the AWD has slight disadvantages (as we all know).
It also has one HUGE advantage and that is real world traction. But a truly skilled driver will punt an Elise round a tight twisty race track quicker than a Scoob.
The problem with mag articles (I haven't read it but assume the link above tells of a scooby out cornering an Elise?) is that the test drivers are *usually* not quite up to the task. So the fact that it is easier to push a scoob to the limit and bring it back, allows them to produce a better result.
Still... in the real world, the scoob is quicker over almost any A or B road and has four seats, a proper boot and the engine where it's supposed to be
.Regards
Simon
13 April 2000, 10:58 PM
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you could show him the latest edition of EVO magazine(May),in which the P1 was faster around the MIRA wet handling circuit(mainly corners) than the Elise along with a host of lesser makes(no offence intended)such as the Renault Clio,Peugeot 306 ,ford Puma,Honda Integra and Toyota MR2.
That should keep him quiet for a while
[This message has been edited by AndyMc (edited 13-04-2000).]
That should keep him quiet for a while
[This message has been edited by AndyMc (edited 13-04-2000).]
14 April 2000, 12:33 AM
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Hello,
Although I have not Driven an Elise my Mate has one and I can safley say that in the dry I would not be able to keep up (and other sdcooby drivers who have raced him have found the same!), he is a better driver than me and has been to traing days and Raced Bikes etc. However in the wet I have performed a few manuvers in my scooby that have prompted him to say "If I did that in the Elise I would be dead!"
Physics is on the side of the elise due to a lower centre of gravity and lighter body so the car is less likey to want to travel in the direction it pointing and more able to turn the bend. Also as the Elise is mid engined it has a "lower polar inertia" which means it can turn around its centre of gravity faster.
Beleive it or not there is a very comprehensive gide to how cars grip and hanle in the Playstation GranTurismo instruction guide! and also Road Craft (The Book)
I still love my scooby becuase it is quiet, comfy,seats four people, fits in loads of luggage etc
Bye
Dave.
Although I have not Driven an Elise my Mate has one and I can safley say that in the dry I would not be able to keep up (and other sdcooby drivers who have raced him have found the same!), he is a better driver than me and has been to traing days and Raced Bikes etc. However in the wet I have performed a few manuvers in my scooby that have prompted him to say "If I did that in the Elise I would be dead!"
Physics is on the side of the elise due to a lower centre of gravity and lighter body so the car is less likey to want to travel in the direction it pointing and more able to turn the bend. Also as the Elise is mid engined it has a "lower polar inertia" which means it can turn around its centre of gravity faster.
Beleive it or not there is a very comprehensive gide to how cars grip and hanle in the Playstation GranTurismo instruction guide! and also Road Craft (The Book)
I still love my scooby becuase it is quiet, comfy,seats four people, fits in loads of luggage etc
Bye
Dave.
14 April 2000, 01:35 PM
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It does ofcourse depend on the type of bend, road conditions, and the driver (as stated previousely). My opinion is that a good driver would enter the corner faster in an Elise (better rubber to weight ratio), but exit faster in the Scoob (better traction). Put Mr Average behind the wheel of both cars and the Scoob will win every time.
I wonder which one Richard Burns would corner faster in?
I wonder which one Richard Burns would corner faster in?
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