Davestamf

About a month ago, someone with a new WRX indicated encountering a hesitation or flat-spot problem with the PPP upgrade, which brought a flood of responses from owners experiencing the same fault. I have been keeping a keen eye on this forum ever since, expecting to see more disgruntled threads, or perhaps news of a remedy from Prodrive. Instead, the topic has disappeared as though it affected twenty or so people at the time, but they have now left the country. My Mark 3 WRX does not suffer from any form of acceleration blip and so I have not wanted to spend another fortune unless PPP gets the all-clear. After all, this site is more likely to reveal the truth than any salesman. Could anyone please shed more light on this topic?

Dave

davek

As i said on original post, my ppp as been on my wrx since march and i've nothing but praise.

10/10 as far as im concerned

Itsanicesensibleestatecar

I've had mine on since new so I can't comment on how it feels compared to a standard car, but I can't say I'm anything but happy with it. It is certainly quicker than my old 01 ppp. I do feel it my not pull as well in 5th from low revs, ie 1500-2000, but then again the old car had done 16000 miles by the time I sold it, so the engine was well and truely worn in. I've only done 2000 miles so far in the new one, so I'm not worried. In the rev range everyones on about, mine goes like a rocket, much better than the sti ppp I tested, which only took off are 3500. The bottom line is whether you use 3rd and 4th in the fun bits or keep it in 5th and take it easy. If like most people here you're a 3rd or 4th man you'll love the extra punch in the mid range. If you're still unsure go to the Subaru UK website and search for what cars you're local dealers are running. A few of them will probably have a ppp'd car, mine do.

Davestamf

Thanks for the two replies received. I'm sure you will recall that the vast majority from the previous posts were confirming a problem and so it is reassuring to hear that you report favourably. I'll see if I can find a Mark 3 with PPP just for peace of mind before going ahead. But where did all the owners with a defective upgrade go?

Dave

PJA

See below response from Prodrive regarding WRX PPP pack

"We are looking at the Forester at present, we have a number of ideas about what may be the issue with the current WRX pack and we will be on that in the next couple of weeks.

I'll let you know what we come up with"

So there may be a minor glitch, lets hope they sort it.

Once they have I'll get out the plastic and have it fitted.

PJA

Davestamf

PJA

So it does seem as though a problem exists, that's the closest a company get to admitting it. I've tried to find an email address on the Prodrive site but they seem to have taken some care to avoid providing one. If you hear of a breakthrough, please let us know, meanwhile I'll keep my wallet tight.

Dave

blip

Hi Dave

I think it was probably my original post a couple of weeks ago that you are referring to. The only reason I haven't been on here posting a progress report is that I wanted to wait until I had got to the bottom of it and had something constructive to report.

Anyway, here goes. I have been researching the issue as much as I can and have found a lot of guys on the US Subaru forum reporting similar hesitation with modded and standard WRX's. Some of them have tried a grounding mod and said it cured it, others were sceptical of this mod and said it was pure hocum. They claimed that the only reason guys were reporting an improvement having fitted the mod was that in doing so they disconnected the battery and therefore reset the ECU. This resulted in noticably smoother running. Some found however that after a couple of weeks the hesitation had come back - maybe because the ECU had 'relearned' its old habits, or the guys had put in a tankful of duff gas, or some other reason. Weirdly some guys said that they did the grounding mod, the hesitation immediately went away, and has never come back.

I won't go into the details of the grounding mod here as it will take too long, but I'll post a link to some of the articles about it later when I have found them again.

But because it only costs a few quid and can be fitted easily I tried it and ran it for a week. I have to say I didn't really notice any obvious benefit so ruled it out and took it off.

I also tried running the car on SUL, having read advice on here about Optimax causing problems. Again no immediate or obvious improvement, although there was one day that the car felt smoother - but only one day!!!

So I reverted to Optimax and ruled out the fuel thing.

I also emailed Prodrive and got through to Mike who comes on here. He couldn't give me a clear answer, but suggested maybe it is a 'characteristic' of the standard car that I am feeling. All cars are slightly different he said, some may have it, some may not. Not a satisfactory answer by any means. He also suggested that I was just feeling the overfuelling that is programmed in to keep the cats cool. But someone else (with experience in this) told me that is rubbish and overfuelling will make them run hotter if anything (so I'm even more confused now!!!!). Mike said that he would get back to me in a week or two once he had discussed it with a colleague, and looked at a car they have there. That was more than a week ago and I am yet to hear back from Mike. I'll let you know if I do.

I then took the car back to my dealer for a second time and left it with them. When I picked it up they said they had found fault codes in the ECU and so had cleared them out. Upon driving the car I was amazed to find the hesitation had gone completely, and the car felt how I had always imagined it should. As you can imagine I was over the moon!!!

That was 5 days ago and I have only had the chance to drive the car for about 200 miles since, but so far it hasn't reverted to hesitating. My only worry (and the reason I wanted to wait before posting a 'Halleluja' message on here) is that just like the guys on the US forum I may find the improvement is short lived just because the ECU was reset, and after a few miles/days/weeks it will return to its old stuttering ways. Only time will tell, and I will keep you posted. But clearly there is/was a fault with the ECU, and I'm hoping it was a temporary one rather than an inherent one. I don't know enough about ECUs and their fault codes/behaviour to feel confident that this is the end of it. But fingers crossed!!!

But right now I have the car that I actually paid for, and love it even more! As I said in my original post, and want to reiterate here, the problem I have experienced may not be anything inherently wrong with either the standard car or the PPP. But if the problem comes back and I get no joy from Subaru or Prodrive then I'll be using my consumer rights and rejecting the car. Hopefully this current improvement is here to stay and I wont have to go down that road.

Anyway, I'm off to put some more miles on the old girl and to see how she's running today. Cheers.

Ooops, forgot to say someone else suggested that maybe my knock sensor was over tightened (apparently they often are) and was therefore being over sensitive. I don't know enough about this, and haven't done anything about it, but he reckoned it could cause similar symptoms. Anyway, that's it.

[Edited by blip - 5/17/2003 12:11:14 PM]

CupraT

Mine had hesitation but seemed to go away after my 1000 service.

Unfortunately I now have a 'rattle' at around 3000 to 3500 revs! Not being clued up engines I have no idea what it is - maybe when the turbo starts?

The car was runing OK despite the 'rattle' but now seems to be taking a little time to start and has a couple of noticable flat spots at around 2500 to 3000 revs (different place to before and much more pronounced) every once in a while.

I have it booked in to be looked at next Saturday.

Cupraman

Actually, you guys mentioneing this. I to have hesitation on my STi 8 with ppp fitted.

It really does not seem to be pulling as fast as it should.

The only way I can describe it (and this is in fourth) is that you can feel it has bags and bags of torque, except it does not get fast very quick. Its worse in fourth at about 4000 RPM, it just does feel as though it wants to go fat although the torque is there.

A bit like driving with a slipping cutch, with no ckucth smell.

Im I sounding like a looney? Or is this what you guys mean?

I wondered whether it was the MAF

Davestamf

blip

Thanks for your thorough and detailed reply. I've only clocked 2500 miles since new in early March, but ever since the flat-spot thread, I've paid special attention to the car's performance in the band indicated, and it is as smooth and brisk as I could wish for. I'm really pleased with everything about the WRX, and in my opinion the mid-range accelleration is the most enjoyable part of its performance, and so you will understand my reluctance to jeopardise that. I'll certainly wait to hear your final word on the matter before I do anything.

Dave