fivepint

lo all, here in ireland we've recently introduced the penalty points system similar to your own, but yesterday a document from gardai HQ (top brass) was leaked to the press that zero tolerance was to be enforced, meaning that 31mph in a 30mph zone will result in E80 fine and 2 points on licence...

is this simialr in the Uk or is there some leeway?

Cheers

sammyh

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure because speedo's can over read by up to 10%

fivepint

very sure, media and public are hopping over here... plenty of moral debate, with the gardai stating they will do whatever they need to do to reduce road deaths!

public reckon its to increase revenue after a significant drop in roads deaths/fines since point were introduced 2 months ago...

off the record soem gardai are appalled, due to reasons mention, laser claibration, speedo error etc...

cheers

image doctor

Speedo's don't under read though, now that would cause a problem.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I have to say I'm not entirely surprised. I was on holiday in Ireland (Galway area) last summer, and was amazed at how aggressive drivers are over there. Special mention goes to the woman who tailgated me for miles on a single carriageway road just because I dared to stick to the limit and didn't (illegally) pull onto the hard shoulder to let her past. (Driving tip: the correct response to seeing brake lights when you're doing 60mph ten feet from the car in front is NOT to flash your headlights).

Of course, it won't actually work - some of the highest driving standards I've seen have been on the Isle of Man, where as we all know, many of the roads don't have a speed limit at all...

A.

Dan B

I noticed that "use the hard shoulder if you want another lane" thing. Very confusing.

SiPie

You try pulling onto that hard shoulder and you nearly hit people sellin potatoes and travelling folk having their dinner etc...

It's nuts... but great fun driving round Ireland... luv it and I'll watch my speed if I'm over this year especially

fivepint

yeah i suppose the hard shoulder trick is unusual, but helps for swifter safer progress when done right...

u guys i'll be grand, no points and a handy exchange rate for the fine, and maybe even free mashed potatoes if yee do it right lol

jaf01uk

Well UK law says 10% error has to be allowed for as the government found out rather embarrasingly AFTER they talked about zero tolerance! Just another stealth tax levied on the motorist, wonder how much tax the average motorist pays the treasury in a year? Suppose the need to raise the money to give the bl**dy alcoholics their daily allowance!!?? I'm addicted to tobacco, can I not get money for ****??!
Rant over, Sorry

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I know it's common practise to use the hard shoulder - I just know it's illegal and didn't see why I should take the risk because of someone else's disregard for safety and the law. She could always have undertaken me...

fivepint

hehe Andy, now that would be funny , as for road tax dont get me started, E4.2bn they squeeze from the irish motorist here a year (vat, road tax, vrt etc) E1.2bn they spend on the roads!!!

I really dont know how they can enforce zero tolerance when it is open to so much human error, especailly because its a victimless crime...

fivepint

@Jaf how was it embarrising for the UK goverment, was it challenged in court? if so do u have any info on it?

cheers

jaf01uk

Fivepint, Nah not in court, it was all the motoring organisations and I think most of the police forces saying that it would be un workable due to the amount of admin and the fact that accidents would actually increase because drivers would be so paranoid that they would spend most of the time looking at their speedo as oppose to where they were going!, just like president Blair's "take the p**sheads to the bank machine to pay their on the spot fines for being drunk and incapable" A case of announce it first and then look into it and realise they have shot themselves in the foot again!

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

When I was over the other day, they were talking about "educating" new/learner drivers...

Now that IMHO would be a better practice

Ireland is a country where @ 17, you can slap a couple of L plates on your car & off you go - no lessons or training & un-accompanied If accompanied, don't worry about the L-plates

It was how I learnt to drive - except I'd been driving since 12.

Part of the discussion was over the fact that there was no formal training or recognised qualification for driving instructors. Like just anybody can startup as a DI, with no problem whatso-ever So a cr@p & dangerous driver can pass on his "learning, advice & experience" to a young novice

Get those two little matters sorted out & that will greatly reduce (over time) the number of deaths on the road. The other is probably drink-driving

fivepint

Agreed PTMW... its a shambles... but that solution does not increase reenue so wont exactly be top of there list, also the irish motorist does not have a organistation to represent them which doesnt help our case...

BTW sooner they make cup holders to hold pint glasses, the safer we'll be!

ah wel just have to see how it pans out... i doubt public outcry will change their greedy little minds, this from a goverment whose leaders driving licence expired last year! granted as a fomer Taoishoc (PM) hes guaranteed a state sponsored merc & driver for the rest of his days...

Cheers

ps: its good to moan, thx for listening

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Bu99er, going there tomorrow for a weeks holiday and a friends wedding, the one thing I liked whilst out there last summer was how little traffic there was on the motorway,Landing at Dublin at 11.05am hope to be in Wexford by 2...Damm I'll have to slow down now.
Cheers
Colin

fivepint

yup even gatsos have been "tuned" to zero tolerance, see how many u can get to flash, makes no diff to u lol

Busy road that, so be careful, we also have a convoy of Angry Famers descending on Dublin for a protest on friday so they will be on the road on Thurs

have a nice trip... enjoy the craic

STI MAN

Thanks AndyC!

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I don't doubt that it's usual practise to move over. That doesn't make it legal, and therefore doesn't make it something I'm prepared to do because I have a crap, impatient driver behind me.

How long exactly do you think it takes to work out that someone isn't going to move over? 15 seconds? 20? Further tailgating serves no purpose and is just dangerous. (For what it's worth, it was a good straight road, we all had a good view, and there was no question that I knew she was there and was watching her movements closely. I just didn't see why the heck I should be the one to break the law. It's not even as though the car in front of me was going a whole lot faster).

A.

WRX SEE

Amen to that.

I lived in Ireland for 4.5 years and was amazed at the driving standards of a majority of the drivers...the L driver situation is insane - even though officially L drivers should be accompanied at all times this is not enforced whatsoever...this also massively impacts insurance rates, which in turn leads to lots of joyriding...Speeding is small part of the accident rate problem - most is the lack of a decent driver education.

LOL - the first time I received an insurance quote in Ireland I literally told them - no, you must have misunderstood...I didn't want fully comp - their response: it isn't.

The gardai who decided to implement zero tolerance obviously has no intention of decreasing the accident rates...he is a muppet for the tax office.

Now with an Irish driver's license I'm living abroad...points system can't get me here...

[Edited by WRX SEE - 1/8/2003 6:09:13 PM]

[Edited by WRX SEE - 1/8/2003 6:10:25 PM]

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Cheers Fivepint

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

More...

It IS better than it used to be

When I first started driving (legally) there was NO MOT/simillar which meant an amazing amount of downright dangerous old rustbuckets lurching around corners

Also before the days of compulsory display of valid Insurance Details - a bonus 'cos like as not if you had a knock with another they weren't insured [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Going back to the "chat" (Letterkenny/NW Radio) re driving, there was a consensus that Driving Testers were barstewards & it that they were hard on young drivers - well absolutely nothing has changed then in 20 years - they were hard in my day too - 20 yrs ago. I was extremely rare in that I passed my test first time

WRX SEE

Odd that...of course it couldn't possibly be that many young drivers never learned how to drive properly before taking the test?

P1 Enthusiast

Well being from the North i couldnt give a rats *** as long as they dont lock me up!!

Since getting banned in the South means oh well go somewhere else for a pub crawl or good scenery for a year or two.

Have to remember the South dealt with its 6 month backlog on driving tests in '98 by sending all those ppl on the waiting list a licence - i kid you not!! :O

Its full of dangerous drivers who change lanes randomly on the M50 espicially causing massive 'snakes' for a mile or so as everyone is forced to swerve due to one imbecile. They are just looking for a quick buck, by a jammer and geodesy equivalent and just laugh at the Garda, they are bloody cowboys with no idea how to run a real police force.

Fat Boy

AndyC. "Just because it's usual practice doesn't mean I have to do it".

Don't tell me , you sit in the outside lane on UK motorways at exactly 70mph as well and refuse to pull over for everyone behind you, or are you one of those people who shout louder in foreign countries until the locals understand you?

It is legal in Ireland, I was certainly told to do it by my driving instructor, admittedly in the late 70's. The hard shoulder on a National Road in Ireland is not a traffic lane, in that you do not drive along it as if it's another lane,but it is a lane for cars to move into IF it can be seen to be safe to do so, to allow a following car to overtake. That is you only do it if you can see the hard shoulder is clear for as long as you need to allow the manoeuver to happen. If you can't see - eg a blind bend or a broken down car/pedestrians etc on the hard shoulder then you don't pull over.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

*rasp*

WRX SEE

KevMac wrote:
"If you go over the mountains on my secret route you can cut another twenty minutes off that!"

Hmmm - Sally Gap or the Blessington road? Both are excellent fun in a rental car!

Have had the front brakes smoldering on a rental Astra 1.6 on those roads - you have to trail the brakes into a corner to get it to turn in properly. Rental Focus 1.6 didnt have that problem...

Dan B

Its true.

I was over in Dublin about 2 months ago just after the ruling came in. Couldn't understand why every one was going so slow, then I got told! Never got up to the speed limit on the M50 anyway

The tolerance over here is reported to be 10% + 2 mph, i.e 35 in a 30, 79 on the motorway. Your factory speedo is always over reading anyway.

[Edited by Dan B - 1/8/2003 3:15:14 PM]

Fat Boy

It's a bit of a different practise in Ireland, Andy, and her undertaking you would, of course, be far unsafer as you're the one with the unrestricted view of the road.

The usual approach when you come up behind someone is to put your indicator on, or, if they are away with the fairies , a flash of the lights. The person in front will then (usually) move in to the hard shoulder , as long as they can see it to be free of tinkers, bikes etc..., allowing the person behind to overtake without crossing into the oncoming traffic lane. All acknowledged with a friendly wave or blip of the hazard flashers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Galway driver was a bit pissed off or muttering about bloody tourists!

Edited to say that I've fallen foul of the new unsympathetic gardai approach already, twice in one weekend on the Cork to Killarney road at 3 am It's a good job I officially live in the UK now

[Edited by Fat Boy - 1/8/2003 4:07:12 PM]

KevMac

Scoob99,

Dublin Airport to Wexford town takes just 2.5 hours and that's staying legal.

If you go over the mountains on my secret route you can cut another twenty minutes off that!

[Edited by KevMac - 1/8/2003 9:23:50 PM]