IntegraR

What are your thoughts on these?
Hopefully someone here has owned one, or knows someone who does, and can give some advise on them.
They never seem to appear as a viable alternative to a WRX, is there a reason for this?
I test drove one yesterday, and was amazed at the build quality. It had over 98000 miles one the clock, and didnt have a single rattle, and was as solid throughout as a brand new one!
It drove pretty well, specs seem in order, as in something around 5.4 secs to 60, 240BHP etc etc, but they are relatively heavy, and I cant figure why they dont seem to be a consideration for Rally special buyers, that bothers me a bit, whats up with them?

BTW, the drive of the one with over 98000 miles was simply a drive to ascertain whether I want one, and I would get one with around 50k on the clock when buying.

So, does anyone know something I dont? dont want to end up buying a dud, so if you have any thoughts, it'd be much appreciated.
Cheers
Graham

PS: also saw a nice blue old stylee Imp Turbo at trhe local dealership for around my price range, but prefer the look of the Celica, but if a GT4 is a pants buy, may have to check it out.

mega_stream

Graham

Get a scoob m8

Then we can have 4 in the car park at work


cya

IntegraR

Hey John, people would get jealous thinking we get them as company cars or something

Ill have a look at it, I need a Turbo, or an S2000, and that Celica can pull some, plus the wing on the WRC version is HUGE, Id keep my status of having the tallest wing in the car park
until you got an STi one of course.

ScoobyJawa

Seem to remember reading that there are a few bits that can go wrong with them and they cost big money to sort out......

Only what I can vaguely remember though

RichiW

My m8 at work has a GT4, its the same speed wise as my MY98 Terzo(though i have full decat SS exhaust), it has high mileage around the 90k mark, like you say, nice build quality, but they are abit heavy.Beleive he gets around 30mpg on a steady run too.

He`s selling it if your interested( he`s after an Evo6 ), i can give you his e-mail if you want?

`N`Reg i think, Red with large spoiler ( alot of them have small spoilers?) about 90k with FSH.One previous owner who used it mainly on the motorways.

TonyNesta

I had one, a '92 Carlos Sainz Ltd Edition. Got it with 23k miles, ran it up to 86k miles with no significant problems whatsoever. Bit expensive to service, compared with the Scoob but worth doing it for peace of mind I suppose.

It is a bit heavier than the Scoob, but better build quality in my opinion. Performance excellent, but Scoob better ;-).

T

JohnW

I've recently sold a 95 GT4 (newer shape)in favour of a STI4, good build quality but far too heavy, too slow and not a patch on the scooby, the scooby will eat it for dinner.

john

Jerry B

A friend has one for under £4,000 if you're interested. Lot of car for the money.

igratton

my brother runs a GT4 (ST185) its been fine apart from an incident on a road rally which hurt the front wings a little.

Nice new engine now with HKS racing cams etc.



I'm sure I Watkins will gladly give GT4s a good word.

have fun...

Ian

IntegraR

So not a patch on a Scoob?
If a UK scoob pulled up next to one, average road, average weather, average drivers (you can see where Im going with this right?), and the Scooby driver, in typical Scooby driver fashion , starts revving his engine, giving lairy looks, and bobbing his head to So Solid Crew, indicating he wants to race, the Celica would lose?

Whats up with these Celica's? they have 240 - 255 BHP stock, so surely they cant weigh <I>that</I> much more?
Hmmphf, not so sure on one, I have a craving for more power than is useful, but still reasonable (read "I can afford it") insurance, in a nice sporty coupe' body.
Have an Integra, may just keep it, cant seem to find anything that fits the bill, but have one more GT4 to sus out.

wilf

IntegraR

I think the comparison against the scoob was an STi IV.

I reckon the GT4 is worth a look - its just ridiculously cheap. Never driven one but recall it had mixed reviews as being a little bit dull to drive. Do you believe the mags?

IntegraR

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by wilf:
<B>Do you believe the mags?[/quote]

Sort of, they are right about it being quite boring.
The engine needs to be louder, and it sits so solidly on the road, so you get a reduction in feedback.

I was hoping that, with time, the excitment could come from learning about the handling, the power, etc, but Im probably expecting too much.

TonyNesta

If I remember rightly, the GT4 weighs about 1500kg to the Scooby's 1200kg (approx), due to the weight of the transmission and LSD. Thats a BIG difference.

Handles well, but the engine needs revving hard, like most Toyota performance engines.

Currently very good value for money, but don't get one if you really want a Scoob - they are different beasts.

T

bren@apex

iTrader: (20)

The newer GT4 has a "laden weight of around 1450kg". How does that compare to a Scooby?

Bren

igratton

Just remember guys....if you come up against somebody in a GT4 who can actually 'drive' your chances may not be quite so good.

The ST185 would not stand a chance in straight line speed against a PPP'd uk car or an STI but it will give a UK scooby some stick....my brother my attend the next trackday so watch out.

The scooby is a very flattering car...and it magnifies the abilities of average drivers (just like me...I'm no driving whizz).

But likewise...good driver in both cars and the scooby could probably come out tops.

just some thoughts....not setting up an argument or anything like that.

Ian.

IntegraR

Ones Im looking at are st205, the 4 frog eyed headlights type, 94 -.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

IntegraR, Mines for sale ('95 M 27K miles)....mail me if your interested....as for what GT4's are like, lets just say Im getting another one

DazW

IWatkins

Graham,

The ST205 is a worth while car and very competent. However, I wouldn't bother trying to compare them with Scoobies, even of the same era.

The ST205 in the UK was 220 bhp and the import was 240 - 245 (depending who you talk to). I would recommend looking for the import WRC version (has the high wing plus a load of other small details).

The engine is having to do a lot of work compared to the Scooby as well. The official weight (off the top of my head) was 1380kg but was actually a little more.

Also, the ST205 is probably the hottest running car I know. You open the bonnet on one of these things after a run and you will know what I mean. However, this is totally normal and doesn't seem to affect anything.

On the plus side, the ST205 is geared for higher speeds and can get there too. The engine/drivetran is (almost) bombproof if looked after. I.e. there isn't any (that I know of) fundemental problems like the Scooby's No.3 problem.

All GT4s are also of a higher build quality and less rattly then their Scooby counterparts for years/miles. No arguements there. Also, the GT4s have a much higher spec. (which does add to the weight). Air con. is standard., climate control on imports. Electric everything etc. Brakes on the ST205 are very large and they work well, unlike all the other GT4s.

One thing you should notice straight away is that it if so much quieter in a GT4 (any of them) over a Scooby.

I think it is safe to say that the Scooby (in the right hands) is the quicker car point to point (B-roads), but the GT4 is easier to live with all other times (A-roads, motorways etc.).

All above comments are based on standard cars.

The ST205 has a large tuning potential, however, getting big power from these is not cheap. Shall I say that again, it is not cheap.

If you wan't to know about owning and tuning one of these to the upper limits, I can put you in touch with a friend who has been through it all.

Cheers

Ian

igratton

Hey there IanW....

long time no see...

Simon Tells me you've got shut of your 165...why ?

Ian

Jerry B

I understood the standard UK spec was about 201bhp, the Sainz version a little more (like 205)....?

IWatkins

<B>IG</B>,
Hi mate, long time no hear, hope married life if treating you well. Sold the 165 as I've had enough of turbos for a while and sticking to atmo power

<B>Jerry</B>,
It basically went like this:

UK Versions:
ST165 : 185bhp
ST185 : 200bhp
ST185CS : 220bhp
ST205 : 220bhp

Imports:
ST185 : 220bhp
ST205 : 245bhp

All figures are approx. depending on who you speak to, which magazines you read etc.

You are probably thinking about the ST185.

Cheers

Ian

IntegraR

Im going to look at an imported 205 this weekend (245BHP, Woohoo!!), only done 19000 miles, but Ill obvuously need that checking, as a '96 car with 19000 miles seems a little off.

Black, de-catted, after market exhaust, factory fitted Recaro's, sounds right up my street, and should be a bit quicker than the UK one I drove last weekend.

Ill have to see, whenever I start looking at other cars, the Teg starts running really well, and being loads of fun again, typical!

My one concern is the fun factor, I dont want a boring car, and nor do I need huge bills if something goes wrong, so its a headscratch whether to swop or not.

Would you all consider going from a Teg to a GT4 a step up?

InsBro

I had a 1990 GT4 with full de-cat (this is a must turbo spins far far better) It was a really heavy car and megga expensive to service they can eat clutches also and at £550 a time its not cheap, some seem to last though up to 60k.
They also suffer from megga understeer.
The later shape - the big wing version, the first 500 had a water bag attached to the rear strut brace in the boot.
They went a little better but still very heavy cars.

InsBro

IntegraR

This weight thing is not good.
I am sort of getting a picture as to why they never took off sales wise.
Too heavy, and very expensive to maintain, but still nice.
I may have to keep searching for something else, or maybe start properly modding the Teg.
Cheers for all the info and input though, very useful.

JamesS

My friend has a Jap import GT4. I got my second scooby, a 00MY Wagon, about the same time.

Both cars have very similar performance; the higher power of the import offsets the weight.

GT4 has more top end go than a UK Scoob, slightly more lag.

We now both have modifed cars. Both with EBC, full de-cat, my scoob with uprated TMIC, K&N and unichip, his GT4 with WI.

Subjectively the GT4 feels quicker. On the road there is nothing in it.

GT4 will go to 400HP with standard internals.

Scoob is maxed at 260-280.

GT4 has as foolproof dynamics as the Scoob, is as secure but perhaps slightly less adjustable. It uses it`s tyres much better. No shoulder wear to speak off.

Also has monstrer brakes as standard that actually work over 60mph!!!

The car is physically lower, styling is a personnel choice!!!! I quiet like it. Also not that many around.

We did some performance tests recently, closed road, with an accurate meter.

GT4 at 1600kg (both of us in it)

0-60mph 5.1sec
0-100mph 13.2sec
1/4 mile 13.5sec at about 106mph.

All of the above were not ideal. ie poor launch, lift-off just before 100 etc.

We have developed a CAE model and reckon that given a Santa pod type venue figures could be:

4.8
12.5
13.2

So there you go......