Trout...

So, all you competitive tuners!

I have listed below all the applications I have had - either in full, in mail or on the board.

I will email all of you as we want to get down to a confirmed list soon. This event is currently oversubscribed and so some of you may not get to run this time - the judges will decide on the final list to ensure a good spread of interesting cars.

To confirm the details

The day is Saturday November 17th, the venue is Power Engineering, Uxbridge, with a probable start time of a murky 8am.

Reference cars - baseline cars or additional manufacturers
Stage I - breathing mods only - filter/exhaust
Stage II - ECU and Breathing - Link or PPP, etc
Stage III - As above plus Turbo, FMIC, etc
Stage IV - As above plus some internals

Reference Cars
Phill C (Babber)
Floyd Merrison
Simon Prickett
David Triggs
Mike Evans
Rich R
Jason Love
Mike Rainbird
Ben Culverhouse

Stage I
Ian Gratton
Graham Stocker
Bob Iles
Laurence Pitt
Paul O'Connor
Justin Andrews
Louisa Cope
Darren Retour

Stage II
Scotty Helen
Tim Whiteside
David Hodgekinson
Alex Creasey
Stuart Morse
Graham Hobbs
Alex Masters
Andrew Cawte
George Birnie
Mark Bryan

Stage III
David Rannoch Taylor
Bob 'Link' Rawle
Bob 'Motec' Rawle
Nito
Andy Tang
Adam M
Christian R
Moe Kadri
Stuart Knight
Sam Elasser
Steve McCulloch

Stage IV
Mark Aigin
Danny Fisher
Craig Hardman

rsquire

Please explain one simple little thing to me

How on God's Earth is MikeR's car a baseline/reference model...????

Danny Fisher

Looks like a fun BUSY day. Looking forward to it.

Dan

Trout...

Richard,

Rainbow is a reference as to what is possible with other cars as a base. There are a couple of Cossies with serious engines who want to run.

Anyway, we know we are still faster on the road (sometimes )

Trout

PS Email to all contestants will go out early this week - it is simply taking me ages to build a distribution list - and I am supposed to be working on the car!

PPS If you think you should be on the list, but aren't email me at

rannoch1@hotmail.com

polarbearit

Can we place bets?

My money's on bob's P1 for stage 1!

And maybe a Rawle car for stage 3!

Jon

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Fishy quote:
'Rainbow is a reference as to what is possible with other cars as a base. There are a couple of Cossies with serious engines who want to run.'

Serious Cossies??? Mike's must be a Mickey Mouse rig then

Stage II coould be interesting... 'Honestly Mr' Judge that's not a front mount, I've just sparayed my rad silver...err no the bonnet misteriously won't open...'

Adam M

steve, I dont doubt at all that yuours is a 195. Mine is too. I thought it had a different wheel from other 195s. It doesnt. Ours are identical, having checked with td.

Craig has also confirmed that the 195 flows more the 254 (bobs turbo) at the expense of spool up. The compressor is simply larger.

Bobs is very responsive making it great for the road, but for outright power, the 195 is better being rated also at 1.8 bar rather than 1.6.

NeilT

I've not been on one of these before, so 'newbie' question, how much does it cost to enter? (assuming its not free)

Neil
MY00 - completely standard (for the time being...)

DrEvil

Looks like a good list of people doin' it..
Should be interesting to see the results.

steve McCulloch

Polarbearit

I think you'll be spot on for stage 3 - especially as the 'said car' is mapped a little bit more erm 'enthusiatically' than anyone else with a link car - so not starting from a level playing field - nevermind

Trout...

With the possibility of severly embarrassing myself - my money will not be on Bob to win Stage III - however I may put on an each way bet with him to cover my win stake

We'll just have to wait and see.

A plan is forming in the mists...

Trout

Adam M

I think steve has hit the nail on the head!

Bearing in mind Bob mapped probably all our cars anyway (sam and david excluded), not sure if an experienced mapper should be allowed in a category with us common or garden owners.

But then, I suppose, "there are no excuses"

David? why did the form ask about boost level? is that going to be considered?

steve McCulloch

Adam M

Oh.... and just to confirm Bobs car flows more air than the MD195 - FACT (as a little bit of fuel was removed on my map compared to Bobs -oh to be a tuning expert...... )
after my recent tuning session - and I now need an adjustable actuator - you'd have thought they'd have put a decent one on in the first place or that Turbo Dynamics would have at least changed this over (at a cost) when upgrading... to stop the inconvenience of having to redo the map at a later date

Adam - how maxxed out were your injectors on the map.. Mine only went to 83% at 1.2 bar - dont know if they'll hit 100% when they the actuator allows the boost to hit 1.5 bar - if its marginal then I guess there's no point in upgrading??

Rannoch - mail me offline pls

Adam M

Steve,

I dont think you and I have the same 195. Mine has a garrett wheel, and apparently only 2 have left the factory with these. The other one used to belong to firefox. These are a much heavier and more robust wheel but as a result take much longer to spool up.

do you know at what how many rpm you get a bar of boost? This is how I normally compare.

My injectors hit 99% (max displayed on link) at 5k rpm at 1.3 bar. Needless to say, if injectors aren't on by this rolling road day, I won't be running

steve McCulloch

Adam

Mines definately a MD195, thats what it says on the turbo and the invoice - I didn't realise they had different wheels!

I'll check when it hits 1 bar - it seems to take for ages... I reckon its around 4200 revs but I'll confirm this later on

83% is probably not very high then at 1.2 bar, unless it goes up rapidly at 1.3 bar - I guess if mine was the same then I'd need the bigger injectors, as you'd be totally bugge*ed at 1.4 bar and above

steve McCulloch

NeilT

I cant imagine its much, being a group session

less than £50 I guess

Trouty - any mags coming to the session then? - suppose not for a bunch of 'slow' cars

Sam Elassar

it is a bit unfair to have bob in the same group as us mortals does that mean we will all be competing for second place

sam

lpitt

Lookin' forward to it. Should be fun putting faces to cars

Laurence

RussP

Hi Folks

If any spaces come free in "Stage One" I'd love to come along!

I was delighted to be second quickest overall at the Banzai thrash (eat Dirt Nito )so it'd be great to see what its genuinely producing, it seems more relevant on a day when you can compare like for like.

Standard Sti 5 V-Limted with exhaust/filter 0-100 11.7secs! Plus, having seen Craigs car Go, i really wanna see it on the rollers!

Russ

Trout...

Please remember that if you want to run then can you please email me to get your application considered.

I also repeat that as this is a shoot-out, rather than a more general rolling-road event then there will be limited space in each category - so standard cars are less likely to be accepted.

We will be running a more general RR event for allcomers very soon!

If you would like to apply please email me at

rannoch1@hotmail.com


Trout

PS I am now well over 100% on my injectors. Before recent mods I was 97% at 6000rpm and 228KPa. And my car was running lean!

PPS It will be about £35 on the day

PPPS I suggest that we limit press coverage to True Grip - I will arrange for cover - one or two cars are very shy as well as being very interesting - we don't want to put them off, I promise you!

[This message has been edited by Trout (edited 10 September 2001).]

bob

No mags, so will leave "No Fear" hat at home, thats my P1 with 20 bhp down now

Bob Rawle

For the first time ever I find myself reacting to something that I would normally
disregard.

Since there is a general consensus and view that it would be "unfair" for me to run my car then I withdraw ... this was supposed to be for fun but since its obviously going to get very serious then I will leave you all to it. What a shame that the desire to win is so strong that the spirit of the day may be completely missed. I was taught that taking part was just as important and beneficial. It would have been interesting indeed to see the same car run two different management systems not least for me as I mapped both.

Adam, relieved to hear that you and Steve have the same turbo's, you seem to know alot more about my turbo than I do. Since when did boost solely dictate air flow? And I'm sure you don't consider it safe to run 1.8 bar on standard internals, if so then choose the 195 or 191 or 193 or any one of a dozen other's, they are all good for that. The 254 is designed to suit a STANDARD cars engine with minimum sacrifice in spool up, my injectors max at 100% by 5500 as well at similar boost, earlier on full boost, so comparing the two ?? Its an academic mine bigger than yours arguement and its really not worth the bother. TD normally fit Garrett wheels to their hybrids btw.

Steve, the MD195 comes with the actuator you have as standard, the fact that you need an uprated one says something for your car as it compares with a 2.2 litre 22B lump. I guess you shouldn't blame someone for not having a crystal ball.

Perhaps someone else would like to check out Steves fueling and confirm (or deny) what was stated. Be my guest. Perhaps someone else would like to set up his car for the day ? Oh but since I'm not running that won't be an issue ... or will it ...thick brown envelopes delivered by hand only please

Since I drive my car daily then it a bit b***dy obvious that it will be closer to its edge, maybe you guys out there do want to take bigger risks with your engines, if you do then go ahead but don't expect me to.

Good luck to all,

bob

Bob you should not be backing away. Now you have them all frightened of the master tuner, and you have the knife in give it a twist.
You are too much of a gent try being a sh!te stirrer for a while.

RussP

Trout

You have begging mail!

polarbearit

Apologies if anything I said was taken the wrong way.
Bob Rawle you are a master of mapping and you should be there and winning

Jon

steve McCulloch

Bob - dont be silly, your not allowed to withdraw... your attendance is compulsory.... as I'm sure everyone else will agree - we just put you on an assumed 'higher plateau'

Bob, come on now..you have a crystal ball dont you... or does Branko keep it?

I think we are all expecting to see you in November - the event WILL NOT be the same without....

So dont let some comments get to you.. I think most are said in jest...

Steve

Danny Fisher

Bob, the only 'COMPETITION' was normally started by Chins. This was between Andy Tang, Nito (when he's about) and myself. Topcat now joins the runners for this group.

But this time we are not running in the same group, so no problem.

It would be a shame for you to remove yourself from the list, just because of some people not wanting to come second. But then most of those who attend these on a regular basis, all know not even my group 4 car would beat yours.

DON'T LET THEM GET TO YOU.... YOUR BETTER THAN THAT.

Dan

Adam M

Bob,

You and I both know that I know nothing about turbos. What I wrote was what was told to me that day by craig at turbo dynamics and he certainly knows what he is talking about.

All I have done is write word for word what he told me. The 195 is rated for 1.8 and 254 for 1.6 bar. He also said the 195 flows more due to its larger compressor wheel at the expense of spool up. Why does this suggest that I know more about your turbo than you. If any of these facts that I have stated are in question, then please take it up with craig and he has misinformed me.

As regards to not running. please don't withdraw. Anything above here is merely banter. I don't see the day as competitive, although I think it is fair that everyone running in our group is aiming for second place. How this reflects badly on you I dont know.

Your car is always going to be a benchmark, so removing it is detrimental to everyones figures.

Also, I for one, would be fascinated to see a direct link v. motec comparison, assuming you will be mapping to the same boost level?

please reconsider your decision.

edited due to rubbish grammar and spelling

[This message has been edited by Adam M (edited 11 September 2001).]

Nigel Bowles

Just found this link, are there any places left.

Please, please, please and pretty please.

Last time I "Won" with 312bhp, but was deemed to have lost due to a 22b having 311 torque.
Things have moved on ... and as you are grouping people together I think it will be more fun and informative about what works and what doesnt.

Here are some details of the car (as tuned by Bob Rawle)

RAver

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Trout:
[B]So, all you competitive tuners!

I have listed below all the applications I have had - either in full, in mail or on the board.

Hi!
Couldn't find your email address, I would be interested in coming along:
Sti2 type RA v-ltd. 1996 23000 miles, K&N induction, non-cat SS system. No other mods to engine. Guess that would be st. 1??
email: sbs@freenet.co.uk