Bikers - please answer this?
15 September 2001, 09:51 PM
#1
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A question I have been burning to ask - I know that there are some bikers on here.
Why, why, why, why ride around with FULL beam on all the time?????? Dont say that it is to let us car drivers see you cos I was a biker way back and rode with DIPPED beam on (underneath a flouresent orange cover TOO!!)
It REALLY, REALLY dicks me off!!! one tonight had me thinking he was a tractor coming along the country road - 4RSEHOLE!!!
Rant over - thanks for listening
DIP YOUR LIGHTS!!!!
Pete
Why, why, why, why ride around with FULL beam on all the time?????? Dont say that it is to let us car drivers see you cos I was a biker way back and rode with DIPPED beam on (underneath a flouresent orange cover TOO!!)
It REALLY, REALLY dicks me off!!! one tonight had me thinking he was a tractor coming along the country road - 4RSEHOLE!!!
Rant over - thanks for listening
DIP YOUR LIGHTS!!!!
Pete
15 September 2001, 11:28 PM
#2
Pete
We've had this debate a month or so back
Technical answer is that a bike's lights are positioned higher than a car & are more prone to movement in the vertical plane 'cos of shorter wheelbase & increased suspension movement under acceleration & braking.
Doesn't mean that biker's drive round with their main beam on all the time - just from a car driver's perspective it may appear brighter than the average car.
Do a search on this to see all the arguments - about 3 or 4 threads running I seem to remember.
We've had this debate a month or so back
Technical answer is that a bike's lights are positioned higher than a car & are more prone to movement in the vertical plane 'cos of shorter wheelbase & increased suspension movement under acceleration & braking.
Doesn't mean that biker's drive round with their main beam on all the time - just from a car driver's perspective it may appear brighter than the average car.
Do a search on this to see all the arguments - about 3 or 4 threads running I seem to remember.
15 September 2001, 11:38 PM
#3
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Just to add a little petrol to the post, i used to always get accused of riding my bikes with lights on main beam even when they were dipped, but can honestly say i've never ridden around with them permanently on main (once or twice caught the button by accident and the little main beam light can be hard to see in daylight).
Theres a couple of reasons for this i think:-
1. I'm 17 stone so my weight on an accelerating bike makes the front lift up.(hey lets face it, my weight alone makes the bike lift up!)
2. The lights on most of the bikes i've owned are a lot higher up than most car headlights so does tend to dazzle (though i think the safety aspects of this over rule any temporary dazzling), but when riding at night I was always very concious and if i got to close to a car i would back off to prevent dazzle till it was safe to pass.
3. If i thought having main beam on would make more car drivers see me i'd probably do it more often till i was sure car driver had seen me! (then turn it off obviously)
I've had several incidents where people have done something foolish and i've been greeted with the great phrase 'sorry mate, didnt see you'.
Tell me, how do you miss a 17 stone guy, who's only 5ft 7 (so as wide as an elephants a**e!) wearing black + bright purple leathers with blue spots (dont ask it was the only off the peg set i could buy that would fit) a lurid coloured crash helmet, a bright read ducati 996 (what i was riding the last time it happened) with its headlights on, running full race 52mm termignoni exhausts (which are so loud my neighbours car alarms, and car alarms at my company would go off as i tried to leave home/work!) yet they couldn't see/hear me?
My wife could hear me coming as i was on the approach road to town from the m23!
I had asked when various bikes had been in for services to have the lights moved down, but two things became apparent.
They either didnt have much effect as fog lights would still be flashed at me or they were so low after adjustment that i would be better of with a candle and a mirror strapped to my forehead
[This message has been edited by ptholt (edited 15 September 2001).]
Theres a couple of reasons for this i think:-
1. I'm 17 stone so my weight on an accelerating bike makes the front lift up.(hey lets face it, my weight alone makes the bike lift up!)
2. The lights on most of the bikes i've owned are a lot higher up than most car headlights so does tend to dazzle (though i think the safety aspects of this over rule any temporary dazzling), but when riding at night I was always very concious and if i got to close to a car i would back off to prevent dazzle till it was safe to pass.
3. If i thought having main beam on would make more car drivers see me i'd probably do it more often till i was sure car driver had seen me! (then turn it off obviously)
I've had several incidents where people have done something foolish and i've been greeted with the great phrase 'sorry mate, didnt see you'.
Tell me, how do you miss a 17 stone guy, who's only 5ft 7 (so as wide as an elephants a**e!) wearing black + bright purple leathers with blue spots (dont ask it was the only off the peg set i could buy that would fit) a lurid coloured crash helmet, a bright read ducati 996 (what i was riding the last time it happened) with its headlights on, running full race 52mm termignoni exhausts (which are so loud my neighbours car alarms, and car alarms at my company would go off as i tried to leave home/work!) yet they couldn't see/hear me?
My wife could hear me coming as i was on the approach road to town from the m23!
I had asked when various bikes had been in for services to have the lights moved down, but two things became apparent.
They either didnt have much effect as fog lights would still be flashed at me or they were so low after adjustment that i would be better of with a candle and a mirror strapped to my forehead
[This message has been edited by ptholt (edited 15 September 2001).]
16 September 2001, 04:12 PM
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GUILTY!
I dip if I'm stuck behind someone for a while, and at night in traffic. I feel it increases my presence dramatically - I know it does due to some car drivers reactions in activating their dipping rear view mirrors.
It helps them in maintaining lane discipline - they sometimes move to one of the two normally EMPTY lanes to their left BEFORE I have to brake and curse inside my lid!
I apologise for the annoyance, but if it helps keep me out of a wheelchair, tough!
D
I dip if I'm stuck behind someone for a while, and at night in traffic. I feel it increases my presence dramatically - I know it does due to some car drivers reactions in activating their dipping rear view mirrors.
It helps them in maintaining lane discipline - they sometimes move to one of the two normally EMPTY lanes to their left BEFORE I have to brake and curse inside my lid!
I apologise for the annoyance, but if it helps keep me out of a wheelchair, tough!
D
16 September 2001, 06:21 PM
#7
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Just to add my tuppence worth...
a) a bikes lights being placed higher than a car will dazzle you from behind when close the same way a lorries will.
b) they should be adjusted so that they are correct with the rider seated on it. Not always the case....
c) accelerate on a bike and the front end rises. Hey presto, dipped lights get raised and they appear as mains.
d) a lot of bikers will ride quite closely behind you but off to the side. So all you get in the door mirror is headlight.
e) yes, some bikers are eediots.... But then how many pillock car drivers do you see with fog lights on?????
Dave
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16 September 2001, 10:00 PM
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Understand all the arguments about accelaration etc, except, aren't dipped lights supposed to angle away from the RHS of the road?
Or to put it another way, you might get fleetingly dazzled by an accelarating bike, but surely not the same retina burning dazzling a full beam has?
Or to put it another way, you might get fleetingly dazzled by an accelarating bike, but surely not the same retina burning dazzling a full beam has?
17 September 2001, 09:20 AM
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GM - Black doesn't show up the dead flies. One of my biking mates is a fireman. If many car drivers cannot see a 30 tonne red and fluorescent yellow truck with blues and twos, I don't think a couple of stripes on your leathers are going to make much diference.
Pete - I didn't know you could dip a carbide lamp
Pete - I didn't know you could dip a carbide lamp
17 September 2001, 09:34 AM
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Sorry all, but I agree with the bike riders on this one!!! No I don't ride bikes cause I'd end up killing myself.
I have seen many times before a car in the outside lane, two clear lanes on the inside, with a bike (and even cars) trying to get past whilst the drivers is chatting away on the mobile phone.
I've also seen loads of car pulling out on bike with a few crashes and many a near miss!!!
I drive around with sidelights all the time, these days since I bought my Mica Invisible Red Turbo. I've had loads of people pull out in front of me, so fair play to the bike riders. As someone said they don't want to end up in a wheel chair. And if I being really honest I don't blame them.
As soon as there is slight rain / fog / poor road conditions the head lights come on.
Cheers Phill C
I have seen many times before a car in the outside lane, two clear lanes on the inside, with a bike (and even cars) trying to get past whilst the drivers is chatting away on the mobile phone.
I've also seen loads of car pulling out on bike with a few crashes and many a near miss!!!
I drive around with sidelights all the time, these days since I bought my Mica Invisible Red Turbo. I've had loads of people pull out in front of me, so fair play to the bike riders. As someone said they don't want to end up in a wheel chair. And if I being really honest I don't blame them.
As soon as there is slight rain / fog / poor road conditions the head lights come on.
Cheers Phill C
17 September 2001, 10:25 AM
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The thig is about visibility people say, GM above for instance, wouldn't wearing bright/garish clothing make you more visible? In fact the HC advocates this. BUT there is not one shred of evidence that this reduces the risks on the roads. The thing is the person who pulls in fron of you has to be looking your way when he/she pulls out. If they're not looking you could be wearing anything and it makes ot the slightest difference. 9Applies to headlights also).
There is evidence that having lights on makes you stand out more in traffic. So, IF someone is looking your way they are more likely to see you because of your headlight. BUT if daytime running lights become compulsory (and the EU unelected bureacraps are looking into this!) then this small advantage disappears as every bugger will have one!
There is also eveidnce to show that IF someone sees you coming with your headlight on they underestimate your true speed. So they are more likely to pull out in front of you....
You pays your money and takes your choice...
As with all road safety it comes down to a) hazard awareness training (and most of this comes from experience) ad b) common sense.
Dave
17 September 2001, 10:49 AM
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Yo Pete,
Its all about visibility. As many have said, if people can see you on a bike they shouldnt pull out/move into you. So you put the lights on.
Unfortunately, my (and most other) bikes dipped lights are very bright (only one to do the job 2 lights do on a car) and can dazzle (although set up properly).
Soz mate - just a safety thing. Soz to all car drivers!!
Jza
Its all about visibility. As many have said, if people can see you on a bike they shouldnt pull out/move into you. So you put the lights on.
Unfortunately, my (and most other) bikes dipped lights are very bright (only one to do the job 2 lights do on a car) and can dazzle (although set up properly).
Soz mate - just a safety thing. Soz to all car drivers!!
Jza
17 September 2001, 01:53 PM
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ptholt
I wouldn't worry if I were you. While driving yesterday a 996 came up behind me with lights on fully beam (you can tell as both lights were on, I think I'm correct in saying that dipped is just one light). Anyway thye were really dull and didn't dazzle me at all. Are they all like that or was it a Friday afternoon bike built by Giuseppe on a bad day after drinking too much Ciantti?
Mark
I wouldn't worry if I were you. While driving yesterday a 996 came up behind me with lights on fully beam (you can tell as both lights were on, I think I'm correct in saying that dipped is just one light). Anyway thye were really dull and didn't dazzle me at all. Are they all like that or was it a Friday afternoon bike built by Giuseppe on a bad day after drinking too much Ciantti?
Mark
17 September 2001, 01:59 PM
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Mark - I always got the impressions that Ducati used the lights that Subaru rejected cos of poor light output. So to answer your question in best international licenced importer fashion
'They all do that sir'
[This message has been edited by fast bloke (edited 17 September 2001).]
'They all do that sir'
[This message has been edited by fast bloke (edited 17 September 2001).]
17 September 2001, 02:22 PM
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Hah well that must put me in Mr Angry's better books - the crap Ducati lights are on my Cagiva too!
Of far more concern than blinkin' luminance must be the ridiculous amount of drivers that jump reds. Amber gamblers are history these days... These little scooter riders are off the line so quick with their auto clutches and full throttle - just in time to meet a **** with a Nokia in his hand who went through on the red... Seen 2 clobbered now.
Ohh and rather than knock me off the bike as threatened Mr Tough-Angry, may I buy you some tasty Ray Bans instead
D
Of far more concern than blinkin' luminance must be the ridiculous amount of drivers that jump reds. Amber gamblers are history these days... These little scooter riders are off the line so quick with their auto clutches and full throttle - just in time to meet a **** with a Nokia in his hand who went through on the red... Seen 2 clobbered now.
Ohh and rather than knock me off the bike as threatened Mr Tough-Angry, may I buy you some tasty Ray Bans instead
D
17 September 2001, 04:54 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Champion:
[B]ptholt
I wouldn't worry if I were you. While driving yesterday a 996 came up behind me with lights on fully beam (you can tell as both lights were on, I think I'm correct in saying that dipped is just one light).
"
Imports are the ones with only one light.
My R6's lights were really high even on dipped they would dazzel a car you were following at night.
InsBro
[B]ptholt
I wouldn't worry if I were you. While driving yesterday a 996 came up behind me with lights on fully beam (you can tell as both lights were on, I think I'm correct in saying that dipped is just one light).
"
Imports are the ones with only one light.
My R6's lights were really high even on dipped they would dazzel a car you were following at night.
InsBro
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