Religon - root of all evil?
13 September 2001, 12:01 AM
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Anything which makes people different is a potential cause of conflict:
Religion
Nationality
Skin colour
Class
Etc etc
If they weren't fighting about religion it would only be something else... unfortunatly some people are like that
Religion
Nationality
Skin colour
Class
Etc etc
If they weren't fighting about religion it would only be something else... unfortunatly some people are like that
13 September 2001, 12:57 AM
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SDB,
With all due respect to Alex please lock this thread now! It serves no purpose other than to create a flame war which I fear will hurt relationships between scoobynet members more than anything in the last few weeks.
I know Alex did'nt mean to do this, but the results will be nasty. I've seen similar posts on other BBS's and they all devolve into bitter flame wars which only serve to cause division.
I've no problems with discussing religous matters and questions, but I think now is not the time.
Alex, hope you understand where i'm coming from.
With all due respect to Alex please lock this thread now! It serves no purpose other than to create a flame war which I fear will hurt relationships between scoobynet members more than anything in the last few weeks.
I know Alex did'nt mean to do this, but the results will be nasty. I've seen similar posts on other BBS's and they all devolve into bitter flame wars which only serve to cause division.
I've no problems with discussing religous matters and questions, but I think now is not the time.
Alex, hope you understand where i'm coming from.
13 September 2001, 11:57 AM
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Before I start, this thread is not meant to offend anyone, just thinking out loud and would really like to hear other people views, as I can't seem to get my head around this weeks events.. like a lot of you.
Anyway..
.. if the US are right, it would seem that the root cause is clashes of different religons that can't live side by side.. like Northern Ireland..
Religon is supposed to be a good thing, but it seems to cause more problems than it fixes.. so is it the root of all evil??
Discuss...
Anyway..
.. if the US are right, it would seem that the root cause is clashes of different religons that can't live side by side.. like Northern Ireland..
Religon is supposed to be a good thing, but it seems to cause more problems than it fixes.. so is it the root of all evil??
Discuss...
13 September 2001, 01:07 PM
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Neil - with that post you have confirmed most of what Alex was saying. As like minded people we can discuss anything, but when it comes to religion we probably can't be trusted not to fall out.
13 September 2001, 01:09 PM
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Even after such terrible events people continue to pray to GOD and say they love him etc. Why though, because either:
a)He doesn't give a monkeys about us humans (especially Americans at the moment).
or
b)He can't actually do anything to help us out or he would obviously stop such incidents with his 'power'.
In either case praying won't do much good.
Of course, I feel very sorry for the people effected but would try and help in other ways.
Hope I haven't upset too may people... Just my view.
a)He doesn't give a monkeys about us humans (especially Americans at the moment).
or
b)He can't actually do anything to help us out or he would obviously stop such incidents with his 'power'.
In either case praying won't do much good.
Of course, I feel very sorry for the people effected but would try and help in other ways.
Hope I haven't upset too may people... Just my view.
13 September 2001, 01:14 PM
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I have thought this for a long, long time and I agree, religion although good for some poeple and at some times, causes an awful lot of problems and hate.
Look at every war around the world.....
Mossman
Look at every war around the world.....
Mossman
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13 September 2001, 01:16 PM
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Niel, we are all adults and we should be able to discuss this with out flaming each other. I think that the original post has a good point which would make an interesting discussion.
I think that people are misled into doing evil things by their religion. Look what is happening in the middle East at the moment. Endless people dying all for some god that was dreamed up by some individual long ago. These people are told that when they die for their religion they will be in <I>paradise</I> for eternity! What rubbish.
I think that people are misled into doing evil things by their religion. Look what is happening in the middle East at the moment. Endless people dying all for some god that was dreamed up by some individual long ago. These people are told that when they die for their religion they will be in <I>paradise</I> for eternity! What rubbish.
13 September 2001, 01:19 PM
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Oh, go on, let the thread run... once we've done religion we can move on to balanced discussions about
1. Rascism
2. Politics
3. PArking in them itty bitty "mother and toddler" bays in supermarket car parks.
Russ
1. Rascism
2. Politics
3. PArking in them itty bitty "mother and toddler" bays in supermarket car parks.
Russ
13 September 2001, 01:40 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ed the dead:
<B>Anything which makes people different is a potential cause of conflict:
If they weren't fighting about religion it would only be something else... unfortunatly some people are like that[/quote]
Ed - that's my take too.
I live in the Glasgow are and am often astounded at the hatred between Rangers and Celtic fans....over flippin football...or religion depending on your stance. (To such an extent that as a child my father was nervous about buying me either a green or a blue bike!).
If they didn't argue about this, they'd argue about "Suede shoes" vs "Leather shoes"....there will always be something.
Humans feel a need to belong, and will latch onto "like minded" others.....a bit like scoobynet....how often have we seen (lets be kind and say "semi") serious posts that "cossies are crap" or "skylines are crap" ~ and this just among a minority group of "performance car enthusiasts".
IMHO Religion (some more than others) just takes this concept to an extreme as it's so controlling.
And now I've said my bit, I suggest this thread is closed.....don't want to start a flame war.
<B>Anything which makes people different is a potential cause of conflict:
If they weren't fighting about religion it would only be something else... unfortunatly some people are like that
[/quote]Ed - that's my take too.
I live in the Glasgow are and am often astounded at the hatred between Rangers and Celtic fans....over flippin football...or religion depending on your stance. (To such an extent that as a child my father was nervous about buying me either a green or a blue bike!).
If they didn't argue about this, they'd argue about "Suede shoes" vs "Leather shoes"....there will always be something.
Humans feel a need to belong, and will latch onto "like minded" others.....a bit like scoobynet....how often have we seen (lets be kind and say "semi") serious posts that "cossies are crap" or "skylines are crap" ~ and this just among a minority group of "performance car enthusiasts".
IMHO Religion (some more than others) just takes this concept to an extreme as it's so controlling.
And now I've said my bit, I suggest this thread is closed.....don't want to start a flame war.
13 September 2001, 01:44 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ed the dead:
<B>Anything which makes people different is a potential cause of conflict:
[/quote]
Anyone remember Mods v's Rockers and skinheads v's bikers. You can't say that these groups are diametrically opposed, but the still fought given half a change
<B>Anything which makes people different is a potential cause of conflict:
[/quote]
Anyone remember Mods v's Rockers and skinheads v's bikers. You can't say that these groups are diametrically opposed, but the still fought given half a change
13 September 2001, 01:53 PM
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The word blind faith come to mind.
Would you really belive something you could not see or could not have proved to you.
Religion is a way of controlling people.
I have many veiws on this, but none good. I agree it has no place in our society.
BTW those that think it is a bunch of ****, where did you get married?? Church ?? why?? make the photos look good did it??
Dave the Agnostic
Would you really belive something you could not see or could not have proved to you.
Religion is a way of controlling people.
I have many veiws on this, but none good. I agree it has no place in our society.
BTW those that think it is a bunch of ****, where did you get married?? Church ?? why?? make the photos look good did it??
Dave the Agnostic
13 September 2001, 01:56 PM
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I dont think it is anything to do with religion.
I think ignorance and intolerance are the route of all evil. Intolerance that other peopl have their own way of doing things, regardless of what it may be. We have a tendancy to try to inflict our own views on others, ad it is this that leads to fighting.
I think ignorance and intolerance are the route of all evil. Intolerance that other peopl have their own way of doing things, regardless of what it may be. We have a tendancy to try to inflict our own views on others, ad it is this that leads to fighting.
13 September 2001, 01:57 PM
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Hmmm, religion. My humble little view.
Born out of the fear of the unknown, many moons before scientists existed. In any form, I suppose its primary aim is to answer the question of why we exist and what happens when we die.
Anyone whose read Steven Hawkings "A brief history of time" will recall he stresses the big bang theory is just that - a theory so as not to offend anyone who believes god had a part in creating the Universe
Being an atheist I find it incomprehensible and truely saddening that in this day and age holy wars don't seem to be on the decline maybe in another few millenium, eh?
To answer your question Alex, I suppose by definition 'Evil' is a religious term....
Justin
Born out of the fear of the unknown, many moons before scientists existed. In any form, I suppose its primary aim is to answer the question of why we exist and what happens when we die.
Anyone whose read Steven Hawkings "A brief history of time" will recall he stresses the big bang theory is just that - a theory so as not to offend anyone who believes god had a part in creating the Universe
Being an atheist I find it incomprehensible and truely saddening that in this day and age holy wars don't seem to be on the decline
maybe in another few millenium, eh?To answer your question Alex, I suppose by definition 'Evil' is a religious term....
Justin
13 September 2001, 02:11 PM
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Perhaps ALL modern society could create a new religion called....say....noigiler. I could be the founder member and preach that as god, my followers must donate to me their Scoobs and create carnage the world over while I sit on my **** in Afghanistan.
What a load of 'kin ****e that is.
Believe in your self.
Interesting thread Doc.
What a load of 'kin ****e that is.
Believe in your self.
Interesting thread Doc.
13 September 2001, 02:12 PM
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Jay said
"Anyone whose read Steven Hawkings "A brief history of time" will recall he stresses the big bang theory is just that - a theory so as not to offend anyone who believes god had a part in creating the Universe "
Umm hate to tell you this but it's still a theory. To be a proven fact you need to be able to repeat something in controlled circumstances. With the big bang that's pretty hard
Anyone care to tell me where the stuff came from to blow up in the first place, always wondered. I thought it came from IKEA?
"Anyone whose read Steven Hawkings "A brief history of time" will recall he stresses the big bang theory is just that - a theory so as not to offend anyone who believes god had a part in creating the Universe "
Umm hate to tell you this but it's still a theory. To be a proven fact you need to be able to repeat something in controlled circumstances. With the big bang that's pretty hard
Anyone care to tell me where the stuff came from to blow up in the first place, always wondered. I thought it came from IKEA?
13 September 2001, 02:18 PM
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I wonder if the word religion could be substituted for the word jealousy in the NY's case?
seems like that to me...
I'm not religious in any way (even though my mother wanted me to be and dragged me to church and into the choir etc - family tradition) but i'd stand toe to toe with anyone and argue that some form of god exists after the last few days.
seems like that to me...
I'm not religious in any way (even though my mother wanted me to be and dragged me to church and into the choir etc - family tradition) but i'd stand toe to toe with anyone and argue that some form of god exists after the last few days.
13 September 2001, 02:25 PM
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I'm getting married next year. I'm getting married purely as a declaration of my love for my fiancee'
My fiancee' is Welsh and a God-fearing Christian.
I am not. I have no firmly held "religious" beliefs. I tend to follow the writings of Aesop, a greek philosopher (of sorts). He wrote the "Boy who cried wolf", etc. One of his other fables basically meant that one should "Treat others as you would be treated yourself".
That kinda sounded like a good maxim to live by.
I'm not a hypocrite either, so Karen has had to accept that we'll be having a civil ceremony...
Religion, no thanks. I'll use my intelligence and general sense of morality to direct my life thankyou.
Edited to say:
We're all lucky here, however, to be able to practice pretty much whatever religion we see fit, and have not all been fully indoctrinated into one religion. We have the freedom of choice.
Which is one reason why America has become such a world power. Choice and Freedom. I hope they don't throw it all away by ill-thought out swift retribution.
[This message has been edited by Squizz (edited 13 September 2001).]
I'm getting married purely as a declaration of my love for my fiancee'My fiancee' is Welsh and a God-fearing Christian.
I am not. I have no firmly held "religious" beliefs. I tend to follow the writings of Aesop, a greek philosopher (of sorts). He wrote the "Boy who cried wolf", etc. One of his other fables basically meant that one should "Treat others as you would be treated yourself".
That kinda sounded like a good maxim to live by.
I'm not a hypocrite either, so Karen has had to accept that we'll be having a civil ceremony...
Religion, no thanks. I'll use my intelligence and general sense of morality to direct my life thankyou.
Edited to say:
We're all lucky here, however, to be able to practice pretty much whatever religion we see fit, and have not all been fully indoctrinated into one religion. We have the freedom of choice.
Which is one reason why America has become such a world power. Choice and Freedom. I hope they don't throw it all away by ill-thought out swift retribution.
[This message has been edited by Squizz (edited 13 September 2001).]
13 September 2001, 02:25 PM
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Not *all* evil.
It is an opportunity for people to absolve themselves in the name of a war over who's imaginary friend is better.
Some of the least moral people conduct their lives under the banner of religion. If that isn't a strong indication of the absence of a God, I don't know what is.
KF.
It is an opportunity for people to absolve themselves in the name of a war over who's imaginary friend is better.
Some of the least moral people conduct their lives under the banner of religion. If that isn't a strong indication of the absence of a God, I don't know what is.
KF.
13 September 2001, 02:33 PM
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Neil
Yep I know the big bang theory is just a theory, thats why its called the big bang theory its just that when I read that particular bit I recall thinking 'For Christs sake man get on with it - you don't have to provide a disclaimer' 
Talking of IKEA I bought a matching set of bedside cabinets from them and the 2nd one looked nothing like the 1st no matter how I put the bloody thing together. Went back to complain and was told it was bacause I'd bought the 'Big Bang Theory Bedside Cabinets'TM
Justin
Yep I know the big bang theory is just a theory, thats why its called the big bang theory
its just that when I read that particular bit I recall thinking 'For Christs sake man get on with it - you don't have to provide a disclaimer' Talking of IKEA I bought a matching set of bedside cabinets from them and the 2nd one looked nothing like the 1st no matter how I put the bloody thing together. Went back to complain and was told it was bacause I'd bought the 'Big Bang Theory Bedside Cabinets'TM
Justin
13 September 2001, 02:38 PM
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Bear in mind, many religions are not in "this day and age".
Quite literally! I believe the muslim calendar is still in its middle ages.
And no, it's not the root of all evil. People who have usurped the concept to retain power claiming to act "in the name of God" are the problem.
I give you the head of church "elected" by his mortal peers, who is "God's representative on Earth".
Bunkum.
I give you the senior representatives of another religion who pass death warrants on people they don't like.
Bunkum.
I give you people who live by a code of compassion and respect for others.
A religion.
You don't have to go to "church" or be led by anyone to be religious.
To stay at the head of a big religious group you must encourage your followers to outbreed everyone else. Then ulimately in a democracy your religion will be the decision maker.
So to sum up, power over others, not religion is the root of evil.
Quite literally! I believe the muslim calendar is still in its middle ages.
And no, it's not the root of all evil. People who have usurped the concept to retain power claiming to act "in the name of God" are the problem.
I give you the head of church "elected" by his mortal peers, who is "God's representative on Earth".
Bunkum.
I give you the senior representatives of another religion who pass death warrants on people they don't like.
Bunkum.
I give you people who live by a code of compassion and respect for others.
A religion.
You don't have to go to "church" or be led by anyone to be religious.
To stay at the head of a big religious group you must encourage your followers to outbreed everyone else. Then ulimately in a democracy your religion will be the decision maker.
So to sum up, power over others, not religion is the root of evil.
13 September 2001, 02:47 PM
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This has everything to do with religion.
Just for a minute, lets presume that an Arab/Muslim based faction was responsible for the tragic events in New York.
Q: Why do fanatical Arabs hate the Americans so much.
A: Because they support Israel. Without this support, they would be able to run the Israeli's out of the middle east.
Q: Why do they hate Israel.
A: Because they always have.
Q: The root of this hate
A: Their differences of opinion of religious history.
My sympathies to all those with friends or loved ones still missing. My company still have 37 people unaccounted for.
Just for a minute, lets presume that an Arab/Muslim based faction was responsible for the tragic events in New York.
Q: Why do fanatical Arabs hate the Americans so much.
A: Because they support Israel. Without this support, they would be able to run the Israeli's out of the middle east.
Q: Why do they hate Israel.
A: Because they always have.
Q: The root of this hate
A: Their differences of opinion of religious history.
My sympathies to all those with friends or loved ones still missing. My company still have 37 people unaccounted for.
13 September 2001, 02:53 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Neil Smalley:
<B>
Anyone care to tell me where the stuff came from to blow up in the first place, always wondered. I thought it came from IKEA?
[/quote]
Neil - I always thought you made educated and intelligent posts (well occasionally anyway.) The universe started off as some belly button fluff. It grew into a number of wire coathangers and went on to become a shopping trolley upside down in a river, ever evolving into the universe we know today. Anyone who cares to check their bellybuttons, wardrobes or any remote river will see new universes in creation every day of the week.
p.s. Bellybutton fluff is the matter created from pure energy.
<B>
Anyone care to tell me where the stuff came from to blow up in the first place, always wondered. I thought it came from IKEA?
[/quote]
Neil - I always thought you made educated and intelligent posts (well occasionally anyway.) The universe started off as some belly button fluff. It grew into a number of wire coathangers and went on to become a shopping trolley upside down in a river, ever evolving into the universe we know today. Anyone who cares to check their bellybuttons, wardrobes or any remote river will see new universes in creation every day of the week.
p.s. Bellybutton fluff is the matter created from pure energy.
13 September 2001, 02:58 PM
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Erm, David. Isn't there a bit of missing history there. What about the displacement of the Palastinians by the Israelis?
This is not just religious. It is about persecution, dispossesion and a 50 year old land dispute.
KF.
This is not just religious. It is about persecution, dispossesion and a 50 year old land dispute.
KF.
13 September 2001, 02:58 PM
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How <B>DARE</B> you say that belly button fluff was the cause of the big bang. That totally goes against my beliefs.
Anyone who believes in belly button fluff as the cause of the big bang will go straight to hell
The Question is, is if we did'nt wear any clothes would we still get belly button fluff?
[This message has been edited by Neil Smalley (edited 13 September 2001).]
Anyone who believes in belly button fluff as the cause of the big bang will go straight to hell
The Question is, is if we did'nt wear any clothes would we still get belly button fluff?
[This message has been edited by Neil Smalley (edited 13 September 2001).]
13 September 2001, 02:59 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidLewis:
<B>This has everything to do with religion.
Just for a minute, lets presume that an Arab/Muslim based faction was responsible for the tragic events in New York.
Q: Why do fanatical Arabs hate the Americans so much.
A: Because they support Israel. Without this support, they would be able to run the Israeli's out of the middle east.
Q: Why do they hate Israel.
A: Because they always have.
Q: The root of this hate
A: Their differences of opinion of religious history.
My sympathies to all those with friends or loved ones still missing. My company still have 37 people unaccounted for.[/quote]
Religion is the root of the histroic disharmony, but Tuesday's acts were nothing to do with religion. Merely terrorists justifying their actions through religion (ie blaming).
No religion/god would sanction that horror.
<B>This has everything to do with religion.
Just for a minute, lets presume that an Arab/Muslim based faction was responsible for the tragic events in New York.
Q: Why do fanatical Arabs hate the Americans so much.
A: Because they support Israel. Without this support, they would be able to run the Israeli's out of the middle east.
Q: Why do they hate Israel.
A: Because they always have.
Q: The root of this hate
A: Their differences of opinion of religious history.
My sympathies to all those with friends or loved ones still missing. My company still have 37 people unaccounted for.[/quote]
Religion is the root of the histroic disharmony, but Tuesday's acts were nothing to do with religion. Merely terrorists justifying their actions through religion (ie blaming).
No religion/god would sanction that horror.