MorayMackenzie

THIS PROGRAM MAY WELL BE WORTH WATCHING.

I caught part of an ad for this program recently. The add interspersed glamorous ad style footage of a Porsche "This car does 0 to 60mph in 4.8 seconds" etc... with an interview with the berieved family of what, it is implied, was a "victim" of buying a fast car and dying when s/he crashed it. The ad style bit ended with something like "but this car is legal to drive on the road.", implying the car was entirely at fault, because it was too quick for the average driver to deal with.

Great, more anti-performance car propaganda. It looks like another government policy friendly, one-sided, pick the most shocking situations to sharpen whatever axe the program makers want to grind.

While I do sympathise with the family for their loss, I don't think the loss was due ( as was implied by the ad I saw) to a problem with car.

AS I STATED ABOVE, THIS IS THE IMPRESSION I GOT FROM THE (SENSATIONALIST) AD FOR THE PROGRAM. I HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET, BUT I WILL TRY TO REMEMBER TO SET THE RECORDER FOR IT. I KNOW THERE ARE GOOD ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST FAST CARS, I MYSELF BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO ATTAIN A MORE ADVANCED DRIVING STANDARD BEFORE DRIVING CERTAIN VEHICLES ON THE ROAD, BUT MY POINT IS: THIS PROGRAM LOOKS LIKE IT WILL PROBABLY BE ANOTHER ONE-SIDED SCARE STORY, LIKE ALL THE "SPEEDING KILLS" TYPE ONES.

Sorry, I didn't mean to SHOUT, I just couldn't be bothered to retype that lot in lower case.

Moray
(Asbestos jacket on standby)

Blow Dog

Here here.

I hope to god that you are wrong though, we really dont need this kind of **** anymore.

Cem

WigWam

I`m sick of this anti fast car bollocks.

A car, like a gun, is only as dangerous as the person using it.

Unless of course its a Nissan Bluebird Minicab with no brakes,shagged shocks, dodgy steering, and only sidelights on in the dark.

But that wouldn`t make a good TV programme now would it? Or please the P.C./green brigade that seems to run the media and govt. these days.

end of rant!

Nightmare

lets wait till after Monday to rant...there is a possibility that it will focus on the fact that high performance cars ARE too much for the average driver, and that more exams/qualifications/age/experience/whatever should be required to drive one. Something I think most of us fully endorse....

Andrew Dixon

If I remember correctly during the making of this Panorama programme, one of the interviewers was actually knocked down by a car as they were filming. She was talking about how dangerous speed is, when an elderly man/woman drove into her at about 10mph ... doh!

It would be funny if the programme itself wasn't such a piece of misguided, uneducated crap. It's a real shame.

Andrew

Beef

Extra qualifications are probably a good thing, but I bet if it did happen they would age-limit it as well. "Nothing over 200hp before you're 25". Yeah, great for all of us younger than that! Cheers.

Geezer

You should count yourself luck young man. When I was your age blah blah etc......

Oh my God, I sound like my father!!!

Nightmare

Im afraid that I truly believe they SHOULD age limit it.... Nothing over 100bhp before you're 21. Insurance stats say this lot still cause most accidents, and the biggest tw*ts always seem to wearing caps backwards frankly, and you cant get a powerful bike till this age, so why should you be able to get a 600bhp Lister Storm just cos Daddy's rich?

wot a long sentence

mphnw11

Don't let Mr Button see this thread please. I can't quite believe that age limits will help much, and statistics would have us believe that speed is dangerous in the first place so they should be used with a pinch of salt IMHO

Nightmare

agreed - and that wasnt meant to be a dig at anyone (Im only 26 after all!)

Insurance companies however have less reason to lie than the government, or in fact twist stats. It would be in their interest to claim that men aged 26 - 40 are the most dangerous, as these are the greatest percentage of drivers on the road, so they'd make more money....

I dont know it would work either, but at the same time, if it was standard (as it is for bikes) no-one would complain, and it would be easier to introduce a 'performance' test - which I think (IMHO) is a damn good idea....

plus smaller cars = less pollution (in general) - which is good for the environment. Hurray. It would also mean that there would be less massive 4x4s driving a single brat to school and getting in my way all the time

Beef

How long is a Scoobie then?

MorayMackenzie

Beef, A.Exactly twice the distance from it's middle to one of its ends!

johnfelstead

I have allways driven at a quick pace, this is not the same thing as inapropriate speed.

I have allways had a keen interest in cars for as long as i remember. When i was 10 years old i entered a competition organised by greater manchester police, aimed at promoting road safety awareness in school kids. The quiz was based entirely on the contents of the highway code, i learned this inside out, back to front etc. and won the quiz out of thousands of other kids entered.(super swat)

This was a great idea by manchester police as it got loads of kids thinking about road safety at a very young age. I am not awair of this competition still being run in schools.

When i went to secondary school i joined a group that taught how to ride trials bikes, this gave me a great apreciation as to the implications of not respecting what motorised transport can do, i had lots of tumbles but learned to respect vehicles in a safe environment.

I then went to sixth form college and at 16 was one of only six from the college to attend a driving course held on the private training grounds of Greater Manchester Buses, again by manchester police. This included simulated junctions etc and also had a skid pan to learn safe driving in icey conditions.

Looking back on my driving record now, i know that this early education has served me well.
Anyone who sits in with me thinks i drive quickly, what lots of them dont apreciate is that i am very awair of my surroundings and am allways thinking of what is aproaching ahead. I also understand the laws on the road very well.

I was horryfied a few months ago when i had to have a lift from a work colegue to go and pick up my new scooby some 30 miles away from work. This guy had allways slagged of quick drivers and said he never breaks the speed limits etc. etc.

I can honestly say it was the most terrifying journey of my life. The bloke had absolutely no idea what was going on around him, his lane disipline was horendous, his decision making was very slow, it was allmost like he had no idea how to concentrate whilst driving.

I picked up my scooby and we both headed back to the office. I was back 15 minutes before him, i was not driving mad, just a good steady pace appropriate for the conditions.

When he arrived back i tried to be as tactfull as possible and got onto the highway code some how, i asked him when he last read it, his reply was that he had never read it and couldn't see why he should.

This guy allways drives within the speed limits and is totally oblivious to his surroundings. Its like he goes into a coma behind the wheel.

The point i am trying to make is that education is important, concentration and awareness is important. Driving high powered cars by people who are awair of what they are doing is far safer than a moron in a coma driving a 1.3 Nissan Sunny.

Of course that is bound never to be put accross in the media, if you are unskilled and incompetant behind the wheel you become a celebrity for the masses,(bloody morean)

Maf

It's not just young people (although age does add to your risk taking) but inexperience. And they are just as dangerous in a Nova as a decent car.

Anyone remember the JC brake test on TG? 911 stopped in half the distance of a Range Rover. I wish the mothers on the school run would watch that bit of VT.

Maf

millband

I'll watch this prog. with interest. I've heard of a police sponsored report (in Autocar I think...) that found (after investigating 100's of accidents) that speed was the main factor in only 3% of them. I've also heard that 70% of incidents involving pedestrians were the fault of the pedestrian, not the driver.

Makes you wonder if they only go for the easy targets, instead of the RIGHT targets. Is that why country "A" road speed cameras always seem to be on straights instead of at villages/blind corners etc - because they make more money that way??

Feeling victimised (but no points yet ),

Stephen

robman

I think the bit about pedestrans being mostly to blame is true. I think there should be restrictions on age thus:

<18 - Clarks sensible shoes
18-21 - Hi-tec trainers, but not with bouncy soles
21-25 - Medium performance "sports" shoes, possibly with Air but limited to over 100g in weight
25+ Snazzy 50g bouncy monsters with self-tieing laces.

r

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Robman,

Don't forget 60+ Slippers

BladeRnnr

Hi all,


REMEMBER YOU CAN E-MAIL THE BBC WITH COMMENTS ABOUT THE PROGRAM!!

but do it after you have watched it , don't want them to have anymore ammo than they need.

MorayMackenzie

Thinly disguised government propaganda sprinkled with lots of injured/killed children stories and only one true voice of reason, the ex-top-gear presenter, can't remember his name, but I think it was Steve something.

Government saying it's given councils the goahead to make cities 20mph zones, city councils saying "we won't do it unless everyone else does it as we will lose trade!".

The whole program was another speeding kills message, not inappropriate speed for the circumstances.

Moray

spence

I saw the guy with the satelite speed limiting equipment saying how this was the only way to hugely reduce the death toll. Funny how every other informed body disagrees with the 'speed only' kills argument, but his company produces that equip and they are sticking to that argument... goverment agrees coz it's easy...

Turned it over as I was getting rather annoyed.

It was also saying how good the roads are here in Holland. I live in Holland and they have some horrendous accidents and some of the worst driving I have seen, and I lived in Italy for a while!! The inner city areas are a Nightmare, the program was showing all the traffic calming measures. What they didn't enlarge on is that most people drive slower in these areas because of other factors such as cyclist being every where and totaly unprdictable. The roads in alot of these area are cobbled and are like glass, I think it is more of a mirracle that more aren't hurt, not planning. Trouble is with our roads, the UK, is that every thing is done on the cheap and half measures so is never seen through or done properly... no wonder the sceems never work. If they thought more about what they were trying to achieve rather than how much it costs!!!

R19KET

I can only imagine what it would feel like to lose a child, or one close to me, from a traffic accident.

The one thing that I find very frustrating with this, and simular programmes, is that the blame is always put soley on the motorist. We all know that there are morons driving around too quickly, who need to be "educated" one way or another.

I do think that it's far easier for the parents to blame the driver, than have to live with the fact that they may well have been irrisponsible in the first place.

I wish some emphasis was directed at parents, to keep the children off the streets in the first place.

Accidents will continue to happen, regarless of any speed limit changes, if the parents don't take better care of both their chidren, and their chidrens road safety education.

Mark. NOT trying to pass the buck, trying to be objective.

MorayMackenzie

Well, that lived down to my expectations. Remind me why I still have to pay a licence fee to keep the beeb in VT?

Geezer

Moray,
I didn't see it, what was in it?

ptholt

Not wanting to pour petrol on any flames so to speak, but i had a problem with a few families across the road from me (well 1 in particular) which i feel is pretty relevant to this topic.

I live in a 100 yard cul de sac accessed by 3 60 degree bends approx a hundred yards apart with three bloody great big sleeping policemen on the three straights.

Due to the fact its a dead end the above 1 family in question let there children play up and down the street ever since they moved in (whereby all the other kids joined in, though they never used to previously) and this new family got stressed at the speed my partner and i drive into our drive (this was in a range rover prior to the scooby - god knows what they think now).

They actually called the police one saturday morning after an incident the night before when one of the kids going up and down the road in his go-kart pedalled right across the back of my other half reversing out the drive, she didnt see him being so low down and nearly went straight over the top of him.
He in defiance pedalled further away and refused to move, until she pressed the horn and he vanished sharpish shouting for his mum.

This policeman arrived at our doorstep early saturday morning saying they had received a complaint about the speed the range rover was being driven when there are children playing in the road. (Especially aimed at my other half, which was amusing to me based on the speed i usually drive/ride compared to her).

I explained to the officer that we know the kids play out there so always approach with caution, plus the fact that 2 tons of range rover could not go that fast around three tight hairpins with 3 sleeping policemen as we'd end up in someones lounge above 20mph !
He acknowledged that i was correct in this (i knew was i'd tried late one night !)
and declined my offer to drive the range rover and see if he could exceed past first gear round the corners.

He asked us to take extra care around the road which we said we would. But i asked him his opinion in letting what is sometimes up to 15 children run up and down the road playing football in a modern housing estate.
Especially when there is are 6 playgrounds and 2 football pitches two minutes walk away.
He said he would not allow his kids to play in the road, as regardless of its cul de sac nature it was still a road complete with 30mph limit, and all it would take would be a lost drunk driver, or an over zealous delivery driver who did not know the road to run some of them over.

He asked us to be careful and that he would talk to the complaining family about letting there kids play in the road in the first place. He explained they were just worried about the kids saftey. By this stage i'd started to get a little miffed, especially as the father of the family in question collects 70's japanese two strokes (why?) and in the summer has on numerous occasions taken to rising it around the estate with no hemet and just a pair of shorts, and occasionaly has taken one or more children with who also only wore shorts and no helmet !
How can a family claim to be concerned for there childrens safety then allow one to ride pillion and one on the petrol tank dressed in shorts and t shirt round a housing estate !

I told the policeman this and he was most annoyed at the fathers disrespect for the law and his own safety but to take children on the bike in positions not intended for passengers with virtually no clothes never mind safety gear. He asked why we had not reported this previously and we said we considered it none of our business till now.

He left our house and went straight across the road to 'have a chat' he was not a happy copper.

The children still play in the road occasionally, but move well out of the way when a car comes now. Havent seen anyone riding the motorbikes for quite a while now.

It just goes to show what some people consider to be safe for there children.
Our driving was far too fast and dangerous, but playing in the road and riding pillion on the road with no safety gear was perfectly ok.

AlexM

Hi,

Interesting....

Has anyone noticed that pedestrians have now been reclassified as 'road users', but the subtext is that they don't have a duty of care with regard to their own safety and that of others unlike the rest of us...

Also there are proposals that any accident involving a pedestrian and a car in a "Home Zone" will be deemed to have been the drivers fault. I'm not against measures to increase the levels on concentration and waryness of drivers in residential streets, but what effect will it have to in effect tell people "don't worry - you don't need keep an eye out because it won't be your fault if something happens".

Not very helpful.

Cheers,

Alex


Cheers,

Alex

Gethin

Presumably because they are classed as road users too they need to pay some form of road tax ??

Tommy

The fact that we are second from bottom in the European statistics of children killed on the roads is an astonishing statistic.

Getting everybody to obey urban speed limits is clearly desirable but is going to be difficult and slow to achieve.

But all my experience tells me that drivers in other European countries take as little notice of speed limits as we do, so I'm not sure that this is the only cause. I would like to know more about the nature of the situations where children are killed in each country. There might be something else that could be done which would save lives, which is easier to achieve.

grief

The reason why the government and police target speeding is that the offenders are easy to catch and unlikely to harm the officer who gives out the ticket. It takes little man power to point a laser device, stop a car and hand out a ticket. Turnover is therefore potentially high.

This looks great on statistics, home office reports, etc, having great PR effect in the process.

What looks better to management, a couple of murders, a rape and an armed robbery solved or 5000 speeding fines, several hundred speeding convictions and half a million in revenue ?

Who gives a monkey's that none of the speeders killed anyone ? Who cares that there are raving lunatics, a rapist and a few more unregistered illegal weapons on the streets ?

It's all about money and PR.

Steve Howat

I didn't expect anything else but it still wound me up! Same old story/scapegoat given for poor road education and the senceless few that have no commonsence. I got the impression that its OK for kids to play in the street (damaging our cars with their footballs etc) but we can't drive down them at any more than walking pace??!! If they introduce this 20mph speed bill am I going to get a speeding ticket for riding my pushbike at 25+mph, not that its possible anymore with all the traffic calming measures?

Still, thats why we pay all those taxes isn't it!!

BTW, did anyone else notice the frequently featured BMW with its fog lights on??!!