marty_t3

Some advice needed really urgently.

I bought a 94 WRX wagon 6 days ago from an import dealer in West Yorkshire. When I bought the car it was advertised on the dealers website and on Autotraders site as having done 60,000 miles. I went to see the car and the clock said 104,000. I asked the dealer about this and he said the odemeter was in Kilometers. He explained that because the car was an import the clock is in Kilometers and the clock face is changed to read in MPH for the cars SVA testing. Both my girlfriend and Myself clearly heard him state this (we would have walked away if it was 104000 miles). He also wrote 104,000kms on the warranty paperwork which i signed when i bought the car. At no point was there any paperwork stating that the mileage was not verified or any sign on the car or any note on the websites.

I checked the car over before handing over my bankers draft and everything seemed fine. I took the car up to Scotland over the weekend and on the way back i noticed that the odometer was in fact clocking up the miles covered and not kilometers. The car runs ok but i'm sure it has covered 104000 miles and not the 60000 stated.

When i go to sell the car next year it's probably going to be clocked at over 110 thousand miles..ie... nobody in their right mind will buy it.

Ideally i want my money back on the car or another car (even a different car from the same dealer if need be). What are my chances? I've had a look at some of the trading standards website and they state that if the car does not meet the descripion given by the seller, whether written or verbal, then i'm entitled to a refund.

Anyone else been in a similar situation? Any pointers? Any legal eagles out there?

I haven't spoken to the dealer yet (doesn't open again till tomorrow). I want to go in with as much info as possible before i confront him.

Any help would be VERY gratefully appreciated!!

thanks,

Marty.

IanW

I have just posted this same information on your thread in Dealer & Third Party Suppliers:-

You will probably find that this is infact correct, when some of the models of de-limiters are installed they will infact convert the odometer to read in miles rather than kilometers. As well as removing the 112MPH speed limit.

Some dealers will 'adjust' the clocks to display the total mileage in miles, rather than part kms and part miles.

Ian

Andy Hall

Has the car just hit the ground here? if so it will only have been converted since it arrived in UK and therefore will probably have only completed delivery mileage. If however it has been here since 94 and was converted then. I would be a bit more concerned. You don't have to have the gearing on the speedo changed you can just change the face to indicate MPH but the Odo will still read in KMH.
It could quite easilly be a misunderstanding on his part. I would pay him a visit and check it out.

Good luck

Andy

wrxrob

marty-t3 hold on matey the dealer is totally telling the truth the jap cars read in kms when they come over here they need to be converted to read in mph this is done by a cable converter on the gearbox to convert the speedo reading on the clock from kms to mph there is no need to change the speedo face as it no longer reads in kms so what was 20kms is now 20mph the only thing that you have to do is to stick a sticker over the kms or colour in the k on the speedo so it reads ph=per hour or sticker mph,the only downer is up to the time the cable was converted the total milage will be in kms and after mph so keep a note of the milage on conversion should be on the sva or mot cert hope this helps.

Markus

Here's my take on things.

Speedo of car when it came into UK was set for KPH, odo reads 100k in km's, which is 60k miles, delimiter/convertor is added, this changes the odo to now record in miles, however, the odo has not been 'wound back' to 60k, so it is saying 100k in km's, but is recording additional milage in miles. A tad confusing I know.

So what to do? well, you could ask the dealer to 'wind back' the odo, so it reads the correct value in miles, or you could request a brand new odo (no miles on it) and get a letter or somesuch stating when and why the new odo was put in it.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I think it is a bit suss that a car of that age and with that mileage has only just been imported. I would have thought that it would have been scrapped by now back in Japan.

Is there any back up documentation that may give a clue as to its origins? - auction sheet, Japanese deregistration documents both in Japanese and English translation.
Is the SVA documents available?

A decent mileage converter would have rolled the clock back to show conversion aa well as sticking the MPH sticker on.

Nick

Nick

scrappy_doo

Same happened to me and you can't alter the odemter as its illegal you either let it read in KMH or MPH but obviously what you can do is get the place you bought it from to give you a reciept with the KM stated signed by the place so when you come to sell it you have proof. Its a real bitch to work out what mileage the car has done all the time though

gregh

Did you run an HPI check, that should give you some info on past mileage if you can run HPI on imports!

Greg

Makalu

Get your money back and find a better car - otherwise it will sit in the back of your mind chewing away at you forever!

Mak.

Regacy

I've got exactly the same prob with my import. However I don't think there's anything fishy going on and I've got a certificate of conversion showing all the mileage details on it so that should be enough when I come to sell it. (well it worked for me when I was buying!)

marty_t3

Thanks for the advise folks,

I'll speak to the dealer today about getting some sort of proof that the car has only cover the 60k. I'm only bothered about being able to sell the car again as it's in good condition and runs well, just don't want the odometer puting ppl off the car.

One more question though. The car was imported just over 2 years ago (i'm the second owner in this country). Should I have the SVA document or is that only required the first year the car is imported? At the moment all i have is the MOT (and the V5 which has been sent off to be changed to my name).

thanks,

Marty.

dosenöffner

My STi displayed MPH on the speedo but the trip counter still operated in KMs.

marty_t3

Dossenoffner,

That's what the dealer told me mine was set up like. That also whats causing me the problem. I checked the Trading standards website and it claims that the car must meet both the verbal and written description given by the dealer. Otherwise i'm entitled to have the car replaced of be given a full refund.

The car has very little history that verifies the mileage and hence the importance of the odometer still reading in kms (a lot less likely to have been tampered with). For all i know the car has done 10000kms and 94000 miles. The guy sold me the car stating that it had done 104000 kms

cheers,

Marty

camk

I had a 94 Sti and it read MPH but Odometer continued in KM's.

EmperorImports

What I would suggest is that you go back to where you purchased the car from and ask them for a certificate of conversion which states at what recorded KM the odometer was converted to now read in miles covered.

This should state the date the conversion took place, what KM's where recorded upto this point, what the adjusted figure would now be in miles recorded. Also it should have the vehicle registration number and possibly the chassis number.

After dividing the odometers recorded KM, by 1.609 this will give you the miles covered at the time of conversion.
This certificate produced by them should also have their company name and their contact details, so that it may be verified in the future when you come to sell the car on.

Reference the SVA certificate this will be kept by the VRO at the time of first registration along with the Customs and Excise form C&E 386 and the Japanese deregistration documents.

hth Ian

[Edited by EmperorImports - 9/30/2002 10:18:04 AM]

RichB

My imported STi had 36,000 kms on it when it arrived (22k miles ish)
It now reads in Miles and the speedo converted to MPH by some sort of gear box I believe.

It sounds normal to me so I wouldn't worry too much.

Jaay

I had similar problem but in my case they (Garage) said that the car was reading 60K Kilometers, I thought that I was getting a car with about 40K Miles !! But typically when I later phoned the Importer they told me that it had been converted and clocks had been adjusted to show the true mileage in Miles. Typical !

Tim Bomford

It is only illegal to wind back speedo if you are in the motor trade. There is nothing to stop you doing it yourself, at least you will then know where you are mileage wise.

Both the imports I've brought in personally were converted professionally and I have a certificate to say what the mileage was in km's and then they did the calculation and wound the speedo back to the appropriate mileage in miles.

Tim

Ken E

My WRX had the clock wound back to show the converted miles, 80000 kms to 50000 miles and was converted by some gizmo to record everything from then in miles. Problem came at 60000 miles when it got stuck. I had it looked at and was told this was very common and it could be moved on a mile but would only happen again at 70000 miles. Solution is to get a new speedo head, cost around £150, so I ordered one. When it arrived it got used on another car by mistake !! I now have another head in it that came off a car owned by the garage that had not been tampered with, it has a few thou less on it. When I sell it I will be stating the true mileage, and will be able to prove this through petrol receipts, mileage claims and the like.

I reckon you are better off leaving the speedo with the current reading and getting it certified by the garage than tampering with it or you may end up having to change it anyway.

Ken

marty_t3

Thanks for all the advice folks,

I called the dealer today and he said he has the details of the mileage when the car was imported 2 years ago and will send it out to me. He says it confirms the mileage when the car was converted from kms to miles.

He still claims that the car has only covered the 104kms (though when i do the maths it works out closer to 110000kms (68000miles). This is close enough that it take the worry away about selling the car again but i'll have to wait and see if he actually does send out the details i need.

I also mentioned a slight noise the car has been making (nothing i'm really worried about though) and he said he'd get it looked at by the garage that MOT'd the car in the first place.

So it looks as if i'm panicking over nothing (well...apart from the 8000 miles difference in advertised mileage and real mileage). All i need to worry about now is that the warranty is worth the paper it's written on.

thanks again for the advice,

Marty.

NotoriousREV

My advice is: don't buy an import based on recorded mileage. Even if it has paperwork backing everything up I wouldn't trust it.

Overall condition of the car will tell you more about the life the vehicle has led (i.e. pedal and steering wheel wear, suspension components and bushes etc).

marty_t3

Notorious,

Cheers, you've just made me feel even better... the car is in pretty respectable condition for it's age... pedals aren't that worn... steering wheel is a bit faded but not worn... and seats are in very good nick (with the exception of a small rock burn on the drivers seat).

thanks,

Marty.

Fuzz

My UK 00MY was advertised..no *stated* as being one onwer.
When the V5 came through it had 2 previous owners, never did anything about it tho

Andy

The Zohan

Quote
My advice is: don't buy an import based on recorded mileage. Even if it has paperwork backing everything up I wouldn't trust it.

Overall condition of the car will tell you more about the life the vehicle has led (i.e. pedal and steering wheel wear, suspension components and bushes etc).

Could not agree more

We looked at several imported MX5's (Eunos)

One had a recorded mileage of £ 45K miles, with the Japanes paperwork to back it up – I do not read Japanese and could not tell genuine from fake The car was in a sorry state pedals/carpet worn out, wheel shiny, seats worn, it must have done at lease double that!!!

If you are not expert take an expert with you!

My advice - Get your money back and get another car, there are plenty about so do not get hung up on this one