gianni

What are the differences in performance between old and new model imprezas and which should I buy?
Also is it worthwhile changing my 306-gti6 for a scooby?
Cheers

turbo wrx

Having owned a MY97 Turbo and now a MY01 WRX, I can tell you that the old turbo certainly feels quicker.

On paper the old turbo is meant to be slower MY01 5.7, MY97 was 6.4 (About 5.4 seconds was more like it!) for the 0 to 60 dash. 0 to 100 MY01 16.9 MY97 was in the 14's I think!

Overall if you want a quicker feeling car go an old shape (MY97 to MY00), if you want more of a quality/solid feel than go for MY01, with PPP if you can! Either way I'd hold out and see what Subaru have on display at the Paris Motorshow before commiting to a purchase, especially if you opt for an MY01!

sKunk

When is the Paris motorshow?

turbo wrx

Its at the back end of September.

LG John

Classic shape is the faster of the cars and as for looks well that is purely down to individual preference.

I came from a Saxo VTS to an MY99 (MY = manufacture year by the way) and haven't regreted it despite the hugely expensive running costs (fuel, servicing, etc). A standard scooby will not be much quicker in a straight line then your GTI or my VTS and in the dry not much quicker (if any) through the bends. However, with a bit of fairly basic and cheap tinkering you can make the scooby quite a bit quicker than the hatches and sound a lot better too. Furthermore, with the prodrive geometery settings and bump steer handling can be further enhanced.

There are times when crusing down a-roads on a summers day when I think it isn't worth it over the VTS but then I turn off to a tight, poor quality b-road and I realise what the scooby is all about. In the wet there is simply no comparison.

You have to decide for yourself but don't be rash, make sure you know what your getting into because I did month and months of research before buying a scooby and was still shocked to see just how much they cost to run!

Cheers, Kenny

silver:scooby

Saxo boy you must have a big problem with your scooby if say a vts and 306 ant much quicker in a straight line i have played with both these cars while driving my scooby and i pissed all over them in every way. you need to push that right foot further down.

0-60
Saxo vts 7.7 120bhp
Peugeot 7.2 167bhp
scooby 5.6 218bhp
you work out the rest

Yes it is worth it my last car was a chipped vr6 which i thought was fast and had bags of tourque. but the scooby is should i say the dogs b*****s , when i drive it i have a smile from ear to ear even more so when you get a decat exhaust.

[Edited by silver:scooby - 8/25/2002 10:24:58 PM]

LG John

Is your scooby completely standard? Even a back-box change to the scooby can make quite a difference to its performance IMO. The VTS I had was the 130bhp version and ran the 1/4 mile in 15.3 seconds with 60 achieved in about 7.2-7.4 seconds. Please remember that a standard scooby will only achieve sub-6 second 0-60mph times with some abuse.

I've played with standard MY99's and 00's on the road and at Crail and the Saxo (and hence, also the pug) was always snapping at their heels. Modified scoobs were different though, they would dissappear as would PPP's in the mid-range.

My scooby is running very well at the moment and will slaughter these hatches in standard form but I'd never be stupid enough to give one so much as an inch. All a VTS needs is a supercharger and some careful application of the right foot and it will rip the *** out of all but the fastest UK scooby's........you've been warned

silver:scooby

thanks for the warning lol, i will be looking in my rear view my vey closely, if you spent the same amount of money on tunning both cars even with a supercharger the scooby would still **** over it.

LG John

I'd disagree with that. I sold an X (2000) reg VTS in mint condition with 30k on the clock for £7500 to buy a ok condition MY99 scooby with 30k on the clock for £10,200 and I immediately had to spend another £500 on a service. The supercharger kit for the VTS is about £3.5k so I could have had a supercharged VTS or the car I have now for the same additional outlay. I'm fairly confident a supercharged VTS would hump my current car. If I get (using some 2nd hand parts) a full decat, TEK3 and a bigger turbo I'd be looking at spending another £1.5k on the scooby to give it about 300bhp or maybe slightly more. However, after a supercharger a further £1.5k chucked at the Saxo would give it about 260bhp or more and with a lot less weight and drivetrain losses it would still hump the scooby.

However, the key thing here IMO is that the 300bhp in the scooby would be nice and reliable and the 250 odd in the VTS's 1.6 litre engine that was designed to be an NA would probably not be!!

Anyways, were heading way off course for the topic here I guess what I'm trying to say is that in this day in age the standard scooby out of the box isn't as massively impressive a car as it once was, especially with the likes of the CTR on the scene. That said with a bit of light modification it's possible to vastly improve the standard car. A full decat and dawes makes it a lot faster - and louder

[Edited by Saxo Boy - 8/25/2002 10:55:10 PM]

Hoppy

gianni, welcome to ScoobyNet

The thing about about a Scoob is the 4-wheel-driveable power-per-£ equation. Nothing else gets near it.

The old-shape cars are faster, because they weigh 235Kg less. That's 36 stone

You can get a good UK99/00 for £12k. Then spend £2k on a decat exhaust, hybrid TDO4L turbo and ECU-Tek3 remap. Superbly driveable and with around 290ft/lbs of torque and 290bhp. Beats a P1 any day.

That's what I've got, and it's superb. You really need to upgrade the brakes and shocks with this kind of power, though. I have

Good luck,

Richard.

LG John

Surely it's not as much as 265kg?? An MY99/00 is about 1235kg, I don't believe for a minute that the new shape is 1.5 tonnes ???

TurboBoost

Saxoboy a 260 bhp Saxo is liable to end up in the hedge sooner or later (and that wouldn't be fun in a tiny Saxo). Would you want to spend all your time fighting the steering and crapping yourself in the wet? Plus its just throwing money in the dustbin come resale time, but I suppose thats the same for all modifications on any car.

I'd say theres only two FWD cars that could handle that sort of power without much grief - the Focus RS and the Leon Cupra R.
Going to try both of them and the new WRX when it gets facelifted.
In VFM terms the 'classic' seems the best buy, but only as a private sale. Some Subaru dealers are charging near new WRX import prices for their MY00 turbos.


[Edited by TurboBoost - 8/26/2002 9:32:52 AM]

LG John

I agree turbo which is why I decided to get the scooby. That kind of power in a Saxo just can't be safe/reliable/sensible!

puppypower

What you running in yours saxo boy, Diesel?

My Scoob is a lot quicker than my hot hatch corsa GSi and would wup my MR2 Mk2 in either a straight line or bends.

I have driven alot of cars at work well above the speed limit , and the the Scoob is like nothing I have driven.

Mine is a standard MY96.

PP

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Saxo Boy is correct, out of the box a standard uk turbo isnt alarmingly as quick as you think and even though you will be pulling away (abeit slowly) your not going to be kicking hot hatch ***.....
Soon after i had my scoob (from new) and a few k on the clock (around 3k) i had problems with a honda civic vtec (1.8) ie i couldnt out pace him though the gears and that was a standard car
Now, slightly modified with some breathing mods and you will be quicker but these cars will still give you a run for your money, they are light which is a distinct advantage over the heavier scoob, you may have more power, they may also be modified...
Dont think that because you have a turbo'd car that its the fastest thing on the road because it isnt and one day you will get your *** whooped by some hot hatch thats modified and leave you feeling a little glum....

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Gianni welcome
Anyway as i went from a 306 GTi-6 to a scoob i can tell you the differences
The first one is double your insurance (mine did ) then double your running costs (servicing etc) as they need more frequent services and also depending on which year GTi-6 you have you also know that its either 9k services or 20k services... unlike the 7.5k services or 6 months on a scoob.
If you do alot of miles then the scoob aint the car for you it is thirsty and running it will cripple you in the long run
There is another way though and thats to go out and buy a second car as a runabout and keep your scoob for the weekends (even using mine for the weekends ive clocked up 27k in the last 27 months so be warned

Tony

LG John

puppy, that's cause the corsa gsi is dog slow

Tony, cheers for backing me up on this one. The problem is because of the power delivery in a standard scooby it 'feels' a lot faster than the rev happy hatches but the really good hot-hatches will be snapping at your heels. Once it's out of 1st gear the CTR will probably beat (yes, beat) the bug-eyes in a straight line! Can anybody confirm or deny this for sure yet?

Hoppy

Saxo, old-shape 4-door UK turbo kerb weight 1,235Kg. Ditto STi7 1,470Kg - official literature. Difference is 16% or 37 stone = three lardy birds

My modestly tuned UK00 car has about 290bhp (thanks to R19KET and John Banks ). For a new STi7 just to keep up, it's gonna need 345bhp and I don't think the forthcoming PPP kit will deliver that.

Looked at in another way, an old-shape car with PPP giving 240bhp would beat an STi7 with 285bhp and it only has 260bhp (round figures). And in terms of bottom end power, the nothing-below-4,000rpm STi wouldn't stand a chance. The new car is simply way too heavy, a point that Subaru would appear to acknowledge with some of the light-weight models available as JDM imports (except that they're still 120Kg or so heavier than the old car).

Cheers,

Richard.
Richard.

puppypower

Hey sax look on members gallery, mine wasn't that slow. Also the MR2 was a great car, only changed it because of baby, however they still don't touch the scoob.

PP

ScoobyJawa

I went from GTi-6 to MY99 Turbo and it was well worth it! Trouble is once you buy a scoob you start spending a fortune on it ECU, Exhaust, wheels, induction, dump valves, suspension, quickshift.........

LG John

That is hideosly heavy for a scooby I'd expect BMW build quality for that wieght penalty!

bluto22b

Mr Saxo Boy, to say you have only had an Impreza for a few months you seem to know a lot about them. I would say any Impreza Turbo un modified or not will fry any hot hatch on UK roads due to the exceptional traction out of bends and sheer thrust of the turbocharger. Grip and traction are two different things young man.
By the way, whats a Scotsman doing buying a Subaru, I thought you were all tight as camel's bottoms in a sandstorm ? No offence intended, only a joke ...Blutes

davyboy

New WRX is 1385kg, the Sti does carry a bit more lard still

braceman

I live in a country full of modded Saxo's VTS and I never found one to keep with my Linked WRX MY01.
As far it concerns the CTR, my mate owns one the last 2 months and according to him it feels much slower in straight line compared to my car. Unfortunately I never had the chance to check it!

Cheers

Kostas

hades

Put it another way, new WRX is about 150kg more than the old classic - or about 2 people. In an independent and highly unscientific test, I pitted my MY02 1 up versus a 3 up MY00, and there was nothing in it, am sure I would have lost had the people all been in my car. Perhaps this power to weight theory is true?

Some of the weight is aircon - not standard kit in the clasic (although many have it), but is in the bugeye. That makes something silly like 30kg IIRC. The shell is also much stiffer (270%?), which accounts for more of the difference.

Why a new STi is nearly 100kg more than a new WRX, I'm not quite sure.

scottdg

I had a Pug 306gti-16 before my MY00. In standard form the turbo sh@t on the 306. Now modified 275-280bhp. There is no contest.

P1Fanatic

Hehe blutes - have missed your posts.

DaveR

I am another Pug to Scooby example - went from a 106 GTI (which is quicker than the GTI-6 IMO) to a Scooby (standard MY02) and can confirm that the Scooby would pi$$ all over the Pug in most sort of races. The one scenario where I beleive the Pug could perhaps have kept up was in the dry, around windy country roads. The chassis was superbly well sorted for the price.

Anyhow you can't go wrong with a Scooby, if you can take the price hit.

cheers
DaveR

Chris L

In reality, there isn't much in it. Having owned a basically standard UK MY2000 (with decat exhaust) and now a UK MY01WRX (with decat exhaust ), the cars are fairly evenly matched in straight line. There will always be 'quick' and 'slow' examples of both models, but I have noticed that since passing 15K miles on the MY01 it has loosened up considerably and goes much better. The old car has more of turbo 'shove in the back' and feels a lot quicker under accleration - I don't know if it really is. The stiffer chassis of the new car certainly makes my MY01 handle better than the old car (Eibach's have improved it further). The newer car is also aimed at a slightly different market with the new STI representing the serious performance end of the range.

The other point to consider that the game has moved on a bit. Where as a few years ago there wasn't much that would touch a Scoob, there are a fair number of 'hot hatch' cars (ie Clio 172) that come pretty close in the power-to-weight ratio stakes. Also the number of 'performance' diesels that are now appearing mean that you don't have it all your own way in mid-range accleration (anyone who has come across a Golf TDi 150 will know what I mean).

End of the day it depends what you want. If you are new to Scooby's than an MY00 is great introduction as the prices seem to be dropping all the time. If you want a more 'quality' feel and better sound proofing ( ), but an equally bad stereo, go for an MY01.

My open invitation still stands. If you really believe the new car is slower, come for a test drive

Chris

turbine

Hi all
does my pulsar count as a hot hatch? (295bhp)
hope you dont mind me posting because your forum has some very
funny and interesting banter/odd argument!