How to go round roundabouts?
12 July 2001, 06:02 PM
#1
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Quick question.
When going round a large roundabouts ie turning right, I seem to get a lot of understear on the exit.
I try to swing out left a bit before I turn in but get 4 wheel drift/understeer on exit, tried lifting off once and got lots of oversteer.
Anybody got any advice on how to negotiate these better/faster?
Mark
RWD car BTW
When going round a large roundabouts ie turning right, I seem to get a lot of understear on the exit.
I try to swing out left a bit before I turn in but get 4 wheel drift/understeer on exit, tried lifting off once and got lots of oversteer.
Anybody got any advice on how to negotiate these better/faster?
Mark
RWD car BTW
13 July 2001, 12:06 AM
#3
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LOL
Mark
"Guru"
I wish!
I didn't say that it should only be used for that, but that it's use in RWD is not as important as in FWD & AWD.
But..
Matt
"I think that if you were on full opposite lock with nothing left, you might as well use your right foot, as you're not going to recover it in time anyway. At least not a a road at any rate. I guess even SDB would agree on that one"
LOL.. sorry mate, I wouldn't. One of the most powerful tools of RWD left foot braking is spin recovery. Nail, the brake and the throttle at the same time (ok there's a little more finesse to it than that!
) and you can lock up the fronts and leave the rears turning, creating more lateral force at the back than the front = front straightens up. This is only a fairly recent technique (like last 10 years or so that I know of) and it obviously only disaster recovery and to to be used to try to make you faster!!
Additionally..
You are DEAD RIGHT. LFB is an incredibly powerful tool even in RWD if you do it properly. Mostly for the reasons moray said, also for the pre-loading of suspension that you mentioned, and also a way of altering lateral grip distribution front and back mid-bend wihtout having to use the fabled gas peddle to make all the adjustments.
It is also obviously a lot quicker in terms of reaction time, and in addition allows a smoother transfer from gas to brakes, to gas without any short gaps in between...
the gap FROM the brakes to the gas is actually quite large on the limit...
When braking you need to leave enough room to be able to smoothly come off the brakes (keeping the car stable) and balance and smoothly get back on the gas.
with LFB you can balance directly from braking to accelerating without a single pause and maintaining balance the whole time.
(I'm going off on one again aren't i!! )
Mark.. check out
Mark
"Guru"
I wish!I didn't say that it should only be used for that, but that it's use in RWD is not as important as in FWD & AWD.
But..
Matt
"I think that if you were on full opposite lock with nothing left, you might as well use your right foot, as you're not going to recover it in time anyway. At least not a a road at any rate. I guess even SDB would agree on that one"
LOL.. sorry mate, I wouldn't. One of the most powerful tools of RWD left foot braking is spin recovery. Nail, the brake and the throttle at the same time (ok there's a little more finesse to it than that!
) and you can lock up the fronts and leave the rears turning, creating more lateral force at the back than the front = front straightens up. This is only a fairly recent technique (like last 10 years or so that I know of) and it obviously only disaster recovery and to to be used to try to make you faster!!Additionally..
You are DEAD RIGHT. LFB is an incredibly powerful tool even in RWD if you do it properly. Mostly for the reasons moray said, also for the pre-loading of suspension that you mentioned, and also a way of altering lateral grip distribution front and back mid-bend wihtout having to use the fabled gas peddle to make all the adjustments.
It is also obviously a lot quicker in terms of reaction time, and in addition allows a smoother transfer from gas to brakes, to gas without any short gaps in between...
the gap FROM the brakes to the gas is actually quite large on the limit...
When braking you need to leave enough room to be able to smoothly come off the brakes (keeping the car stable) and balance and smoothly get back on the gas.
with LFB you can balance directly from braking to accelerating without a single pause and maintaining balance the whole time.
(I'm going off on one again aren't i!!
)Mark.. check out
13 July 2001, 11:08 AM
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Didn't SdB post an extremely complicated answer to a similar question about 1-2 months ago (IIRC)? Or was that left-foot braking?
Hazy... info overload
BJH
Hazy... info overload
BJH
13 July 2001, 11:21 AM
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Although I can't say I'm an expert, living in Milton Keynes does give me more practice than most.
When I got my first Impreza about four years ago, I encountered similar problems, but the cream seems to cleared it up. The biggest mistake I was making was carrying too much speed into the roundabout. Using the 'slow in, fast out' technique improves things dramatically.
What I've works for me is knocking off a little more speed into the roundabout, and dropping down an extra cog. If I feel the front drifting I find the application of the right foot drags the front round the roundabout. If you get understeer after that point, feathering the throtle will balance it out, but lifting off will produce oversteer.
Quite apart from driving a little too quickly, it sounds like you're 'over driving'. Relax a bit, and just help the car do the work for you.
Josh
When I got my first Impreza about four years ago, I encountered similar problems, but the cream seems to cleared it up. The biggest mistake I was making was carrying too much speed into the roundabout. Using the 'slow in, fast out' technique improves things dramatically.
What I've works for me is knocking off a little more speed into the roundabout, and dropping down an extra cog. If I feel the front drifting I find the application of the right foot drags the front round the roundabout. If you get understeer after that point, feathering the throtle will balance it out, but lifting off will produce oversteer.
Quite apart from driving a little too quickly, it sounds like you're 'over driving'. Relax a bit, and just help the car do the work for you.
Josh
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13 July 2001, 11:22 AM
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Mark,
Left foot braking can help you out in these kind of situations! It will quell the tendency of the car to understeer, and therefore tuck the nose of the car onto the desired line.
However, at first, it's best to practice this technique away from the public. This is because invariably people stamp on the brake with their left foot, rather than just squeezing the pedal. Takes a bit of getting used to, but my car feels more planted when left foot braking.
Apparently it has something to do with introducing pre-load into the shock absorbers by using the brake at the same time as the accelerator. Therefore, this effectively makes it stiffer.
Cheers
Matt
Left foot braking can help you out in these kind of situations! It will quell the tendency of the car to understeer, and therefore tuck the nose of the car onto the desired line.
However, at first, it's best to practice this technique away from the public. This is because invariably people stamp on the brake with their left foot, rather than just squeezing the pedal. Takes a bit of getting used to, but my car feels more planted when left foot braking.
Apparently it has something to do with introducing pre-load into the shock absorbers by using the brake at the same time as the accelerator. Therefore, this effectively makes it stiffer.
Cheers
Matt
13 July 2001, 11:44 AM
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JoshL
You're right about the slow in fast out bit. I think I'm going in too fast and just overwelming the front tyres.
Matt Oz
Left foot braking in a RWD car should only be used really to get you out of huuuge oversteer when you have run out of opposite lock (quoting the Guru SDB
)
You're right about the slow in fast out bit. I think I'm going in too fast and just overwelming the front tyres.
Matt Oz
Left foot braking in a RWD car should only be used really to get you out of huuuge oversteer when you have run out of opposite lock (quoting the Guru SDB
)
13 July 2001, 11:45 AM
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Matt,
LFB is, IMHO, more to do with the control of weight transfer and hence the overall balance of the car.
Moray
[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 13 July 2001).]
LFB is, IMHO, more to do with the control of weight transfer and hence the overall balance of the car.
Moray
[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 13 July 2001).]
13 July 2001, 11:54 AM
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Moray,
Agree with you mate.
Mark, I do use LFB in the Beemer to settle it into corners and occasionally roundabouts. Of course, it is a RWD car like yours. It does genuinely work. Tried it at the Ring in a couple of corners, and it felt better there too.
I think that if you were on full opposite lock with nothing left, you might as well use your right foot, as you're not going to recover it in time anyway. At least not a a road at any rate. I guess even SDB would agree on that one
Matt
Agree with you mate.
Mark, I do use LFB in the Beemer to settle it into corners and occasionally roundabouts. Of course, it is a RWD car like yours. It does genuinely work. Tried it at the Ring in a couple of corners, and it felt better there too.
I think that if you were on full opposite lock with nothing left, you might as well use your right foot, as you're not going to recover it in time anyway. At least not a a road at any rate. I guess even SDB would agree on that one
Matt
13 July 2001, 11:57 AM
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Could try checking the Geometry, and better still the Power Station Bumpsteer mod. Just had my geometry sorted and they have pretty much dialed out all of the understeer, no matter how much speed I carry into swindon's finest!
Jon
Jon
13 July 2001, 11:58 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Brendan Hughes:
<B>Didn't SdB post an extremely complicated answer to a similar question about 1-2 months ago (IIRC)? Or was that left-foot braking?
Hazy... info overload
BJH[/quote]
maybe this one
<B>Didn't SdB post an extremely complicated answer to a similar question about 1-2 months ago (IIRC)? Or was that left-foot braking?
Hazy... info overload
BJH[/quote]
maybe this one
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