chrisp

Just think of the scenerio you have a P1 and EVO6.5 TME (2 cars worht about 40K) and you do a steaigt swap for a brand new M3. I know I wouldnt, yes M3 are good but I would expect serious performance for 20K more not 1 second to 100 and only in the dry . Needs 400+bhp to command that sort of price otherwise you may as well buy a 330D

[Edited by chrisp - 8/3/2002 2:02:20 PM]

chrisp

I would if I had lost 15K in depreciation in 2 years

Nope not driven on in the wet, you driven yours in the snow yet LOL . But I guess its better than a snow plough at cutting a dash through 8 foot of snow .

I agree a 5 year old M3 is a better buy than a new M3 as you could have a P1 and a 5 year M3 for the price of a new M3 and still have the price a holiday left .

I dont have a problem with M3s, its just the owners (joke ). As a performance car I dont see they are any big improvement. Build quality maybe but then again I didnt buy my scoob for being the quietest and smoothest car. I seriously looked at a 330 which was 5K more than my RA but IMHO it was bland and had no character compared to the scoob.

Personally I am not interested in paying for something that will last 50 years. As I only keep cars for 2 to 3 years, which strangely seems a lot longer than the average M3 owner keeps an M3 . Maybe I will wait and pick up a 2 year old one for 20K when serious depreciation kicks in.






[Edited by chrisp - 8/4/2002 9:19:37 AM]

zip106

...all animals are equal but some are more equal than others....

[Edited by zip106 - 8/5/2002 7:50:39 PM]

as400

Would a P1 out handle the new(ish) M3?....realistically £40k is a lot to pay for a car...and I doubt it would thrash a P1 in any respect...even the recently announced CSL M3 would I think struggle...

Now P1's are appearing big time for around the £22k mark (and I suspect that due to the large numbers prices will fall further)..would it make more sense to save nearly £20k plus and go for the Sub instead of the Bimmer?

P1Fanatic

If you are even considering buying an M3 then I assume you can afford one so its not just a simple case of cost. From most reviews on here I think the P1 would stay with it from 0-100+ and then the M3 will slowly pull away. The in gear acceleration would be better in the M3 also. However the P1 would make this up in handling.

They are two different cars - the P1 is a rally replica road muncher and the M3 is a rep mobile turned touring car. If u do a lot of mileage and like the comfort then the M3 fits the bill. If u want raw power, fun, bags of handling and looks to die for then the P1 sounds better for you.

babber

I had a play with a new shape M3 when they first came out (on a private road) and was shocked that my MY00 with minor mods kept up with it. Around corners and twisty bits the M3 didn't stand a chance. When we got upto around a ton, the M3 slowly (and it was very slowly) pulled away, but I caught up with him on the next roundabout

Cheers Phill C

PS I would go for the P1 and bank the cash left over

Chins

Babber

I presume your not speaking about me in my old M3

Having owned both, if youve got the money, buy the M3. It is a class above the P1 in lots of respect. Once you learn the car, its quicker in nearly every situation. It out handles a Scooby in the dry and wont lose ground in the wet. The diff and DSC does an amazing job. I went on track at Bedford in the wet and was gob smacked at its ability. My car was only a couple of weeks old and I was a RWD virgin do took it a bit easy Arron didnt . Think he suprised a lot of Scooby owners that day.

Sound wise the M3 make IMHO the Scooby sound like an EVO . Its one thing I really miss. Obviously the interior and looks of the M3 are 2 leagues ahead. The P1 now looks very much stuck in the 90's.

The P1's advantage is its price. An 18 month old car is less than £20k. So you could have two .

If you want to go Scooby, buy an STI 7 dont go P1.

Jonathan
Mini Cooper

[Edited by Chins - 7/14/2002 1:11:16 PM]

droid42

From my experiences on the track (owning an M3) the only real differences are down to the driver. On fast tracks such as Donington Park or Castle Combe, I would expect an expertly-driven M3 to stay ahead of an expertly-driven P1. At twistier venues such as Cadwell Park, I think a P1 would have the edge (that's just a gut feel).

From looking at the paper figures (which are a better objective guide to performance than subjective "doesn't this turbo car feel quick?" experiences) the two are probably equal to around 60-70mph and the M3 is much quicker to 100mph (1-2 secs).

One thing to bear in mind is that the P1 is much easier to tune than the M3. The M3's engine is just about at the limit. Having said that, you'll have to up the P1's power by a surprising amount to match the straight line oomph of an M3 ... rolling road results in Europe suggest that either very little power is lost through the transmission or it's producing more than 338bhp. At-the-wheel figures of 305bhp have been seen from standard cars

Ian.

chrisp

P1 is quicker 0-60 but an M3 is quicker 60-100. Which means a P1 is slower to 100 but maybe ahead due to quicker take off. In any case a P1 is about 22-25K where as a new M3 is 38.5K. You could have both a new MY02 WRX and new Mini Cooper S for that money .

Cheers

ChrisP

Big Goon

Much as I love my STi7, I wouldn't hesitate to chop it in for a new M3 if I had the dosh, far classier, better looking and awesome build quality.

Neil Smalley

I agree with BG.

I'd have loved a new M3. However 33K(import price) was just too much for me and the need for 4 doors was the other factor.

Clarebabes

How do the new M3's compare to the old ones?

There is a nice Dakar yellow coupe on Autotrader, that takes my fancy.

davyboy

Oooops, wrong user name.

P1Fanatic

Each to their own I suppose. No doubt an M3 is better built, better interior etc but as for looks I dont feel it looks aggressive enough for what it is. The P1 looks like it means business whereas the M3 looks like a lowered 330Ci Sport with bigger wheels and a few cosmetic changes. Perhaps its an age thing and I'll appreciate the subtle M3 looks after I pass 30.

£40k is a lotta dosh for a car and looking at second hand M5 prices Id rather go there I think.

As for speed - how would an M3 compare on track with a similar BHP specced scoob like mellows? Im not suggesting anything - Im curious to know.

Simon.

chrisp

I have to say I think they are aimed at two different sets of people. I can see my MD driving an M3 but not a P1. The scoob is more single minded and more focused drivers car and with the loud exhaust, boxer engine and big spoilers does not tend to blend into the background, which an M3 can do. They give off two images, when I see an M3 I automatically think company/lease car. How many M3 drivers have brought the car themselves and I dont mean have an allowance to buy a car either .

The M3 is IMHO more of a fast GT cruiser which is more of a compromise and more suited to normal everyday driving. If you have 40K and wanted noise and power and more focused car you go to Blackpool and come back with a Tuscan or Tamora .

The M3 is a nice car but I woudlnt buy one with my own money which to me is the ultimate test of desirability, I would have a Tuscan or 2nd hand 911.

Cheers

ChrisP

babber

LOL, chins you drama queen, no I wasn't talking about your car. Although you didn't catch me at Bedford, did you ?? I was talking about a convertable me and Groters found on the way to Woking one day. Shocked we both were

Cheers Phill C

droid42

How many M3 drivers have brought the car themselves and I dont mean have an allowance to buy a car either

An M3 as a company car ... are you serious? I don't know a single other M3 owner who has one as a company car (!?)

To the chap who asked what the current M3 is like compared to the old one ... it's a world apart. The old E36 M3 Evolution was bloody quick but the E46 is even quicker and its handling is far more fluid and satisfying.

Ian.

droid42

No doubt an M3 is better built, better interior etc but as for looks I dont feel it looks aggressive enough for what it is. The P1 looks like it means business whereas the M3 looks like a lowered 330Ci Sport with bigger wheels and a few cosmetic changes. Perhaps its an age thing and I'll appreciate the subtle M3 looks after I pass 30.

The original question was about handling, not which about one would appeal the most to Max Power readers

Ian.

chrisp

Well you are the first one I know who has shelled out 38.5K for their own rather than on company expenses or company lease hire or given 800 quid month to buy something to run round in .

P1Fanatic

droid42 - the thread has developed a fair bit since then. My reply was based more towards big goons comment. Why does a spoiler etc automatically make a person a max power reader?

droid42

I wonder how many M3 owners you know compared to the number that I know?

Actually, I put a £20k deposit down and now pay £400 per month without any help from my employer other than my salary (obviously)

Ian.

droid42

Why does a spoiler etc automatically make a person a max power reader?

Why does a smilie sometimes get missed? Probably for the same reason that I must have missed BG's post

Ian.

Big Goon

Now I would deffo swap my STi for an M5, now your talking

And when I get that M5 I will deffo be on the look out for that Porsche 911-GT2.

Life would be very boring if I had to stop aspiring to bigger/better/faster cars after buying the STi7.

Chins

Its interesting to see the misconception of BMW driver

Why do people think the M3 is aimed at a totally different audience ? Surely the common link is a drivers cars.

Look at the M3 BBS. Its not that large, but on it Rod, Thorney, Birdy and myself are all ex P1 owners. Russel Hayward is looking to have a go as well. On top of this there are a number of ex Scooby drivers.

As for them being company cars. Well I'm not sure anyone has admitted having a company M3. Mine wasnt and all the ex P1 owners were not blessed with them as a present from their companies.

Jonathan

ARRON BIRD

I`ve had both.
At least the paint stays on the M3 a little longer
Two totally different cars and budgets but I have to say the M3 doesnt feel quicker but is...sorry boys.
The P1 is all about mad fast pshyco all out **** and stuff everyone wheas the M3 can do all that if it wants to and when you dont sit back in comfort and turn up the tunes.
And as far as depreciation go`s I bought a P1 with all the trimmings that cost me nearly £34K and sold it a year later for £21.5K.
Bought an M3 last October and sold it 7 months later and lost £500.
Nuff said.
My new M3 is due in SEptember and yes it is £44625 which buys a lot of Subaru`s but which would you have if you were me eh?
PS Johnathan have you got the right colour coming this time?

[Edited by ARRON BIRD - 7/14/2002 10:23:05 PM]

p1doc

p1 is definitely faster than old shape m3(with performance exhaust) as proven tonight -p1 pulled away fromit (admittedly not as fast as i would have liked but a win is awin!) even on straight stretches but i presume the new m3 would be "equal" although i definitely wouldnt want to race a clubsport m3 as i think i would lose that one(crap driver)
martin

CraigH

Is amazing how everyone seems to overlook the comments from M3 owning ex P1 owners - who say the M3 feels slower but is faster.
Bear in mind that M3s have a very really 330+ hp - with small RWD losses - not an ego enhancing 300hp from flattering rolling roads
And once rolling weight is not an issue either.

Above 60mph, an M3 is usefully faster than an STI/P1 etc.

Modded cars like Mellows are a different story tho of course.

So

an M3 is faster than a P1. Simple

ARRON BIRD

**** me Craig you agree with me
Ring me when you got that projectile up and running cos Steve is talking about selling the Skyline and buying one for track fun.

chrisp

And a 911 turbo is much faster than an M3 so are you M3 drivers getting a 911

chrisp

How come if they are the ultimate car then the M3 owners explaining their virtues on here have sold them