ollyshorey

This company is/was selling brand new Euro spec STI's (one of which I bought on Saturday).

The price was £20999, which was the cheapest I've seen.

I checked the full spec, and it was exact to UK.

I asked the Salesman where it was from and he told me Germany.

I put down a £1K deposit.

Yesterday found out the car was actually from Malta

Spoke to Subaru about this and they told me it was the same as Cyprus, and the Warranty would not be valid!

I know that within the last four days, three others have been sold !! If you have bought one and are reading this I would strongly re-consider. You will have Warranty Problems.

I was able to get a refund of my deposit, but this is highly unusual for this company. The way I managed this is due to the company mis-selling me the car (Saying it was from Germany, when it was from Malta.)

Once again BEWARE !! You have been warned.

Mark Underwood

Many right hand cars are sourced from hub points in Germany or in the EU. Many cars are sourced via Rep of Eire, Malta, Cyprus etc where right hand drive is the norm. It often speeds up delivery as if the Importer were to find out then as you have discovered the warranty will be bugger all. EU law states that it is permissble to buy in the EU and any warranties must be honoured by the manufacturer.

Nick B

OK, I'm one with my name down. I have just spoken to Motorpoint who deny knowledge of your order. They have put down in writing that the car is sourced from Holland, and the warranty is as such valid as a pan-European vehicle. They are advising that all the documentation backs this up.

Who were you dealing with?

Please email me off-line if you are more comfortable.

Regards,
Nick

mutant_matt

Interesting one this. I have just got my imported Type UK and one of the issues that had to be sorted out was whether or not IM/Subaru UK would/would not recognise it as a vehicle that they would support for parts supply. Here is part of the mail I got from my insurance broker who got it from IM:

"Subaru UK's stance for your vehicle in particular or any vehicle imported in this nature is that they are required by law to supply parts to a type UK vehicle. They did intimate that they would NOT make a special order should a part be unavailable, which would delay part availability, but they are obliged to supply parts to a UK specification vehicle purchased within the commonwealth or EU member states (ie. Cyprus, Eire or Malta)."

I don't know yet but I can't see how this would not also apply to the warranty situation (as any dealer in the EU is bound by law, when displaying the manufacturer logo and name on their garage front, to honour the pan-eruo warranty that is implied by the car being a euro supplied car).

It is my opinion ( ), that IM would (over the phone) deny that they support this car and I would guess that they would be forced to do so, if you requested this information in writing.

However, if Motorpoint are willing to supply documentation which states it is sourced from Holland then this won't be required as there is no issue with cars from there.

Hope this helps,

Matt

ex-webby

I would just like to congratulate the contributers to this thread so far. This is the way to discuss things, with facts and without emotional statements or slurs.

Please keep this in mind when replying to save this thread from having to be removed.

It is important for all the "freedom of speech" and "conspiracy theory" people out there to recognise that this has not been deleted at this point because there is nothing of legal concern in it.

All the best

Simon

Nick B

Simon,
Thanks for the feedback. It is invaluable to be able to discuss such concerns in an open forum, and as you say there is no need to resort to the conspiracy approach. The facts are of value themselves.

Regards,
Nick

sillysi

I looked into a WRX from Motorpoint last year and they told me that the car was from Cyprus. I checked with my local Subaru dealer and he told me that the Warranty would not be supported as the car was from a non-EU member state. He went on to say that parts would not be a problem as I would be paying for them.

Si.

carl

Not so sure about Malta (IIRC it's got some sort of special status) but Cyprus is neither an EU nor a Commonwealth state.

I can't believe there is a law about providing support for goods bought from a Commonwealth state -- we had to give up preferential trading agreements with the Commonwealth in order to join the EU

ptholt

erm just a thought... i thought malta was in the eu these days hence them charging VAT these days?

sillysi

There are fifteen EU Member States:

Austria
Belgium
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greece
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
United Kingdom

Countries applying for EU membership include:

Bulgaria
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Estonia
Hungary
Latvia
Lithuania
Malta
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Turkey

I think this list is complete but feel free to amend.

frisby

Ask to see either the original invoice or the CoC and this will answer which Subaru delaership the vehicle originated from. Both documents are needed to register the car in the UK so they will have them.

regards

stuart

Nick B

Olly,
Thanks for the update.

I've got my name down on one of the WR Blue Mica cars. They are categoric it is Holland sourced with 3 years Subaru pan-European warranty with full details of the Dutch dealer on the vehicle papers.

My insurers are happy that the VIN is for a European car, although I'm not sure if Cyprus or Malta cars would have a different number format in any case.

How did you check this out with Subaru? Did you phone IM with the VIN as I'd have thought they would have been a little obstructive at any mention of imports anyway???

Stuart - thanks for the suggestion. I will ask for a copy of the invoice - what is the CoC, Certificate of Conformity???

Thanks,
Nick

ollyshorey

Nick,

If thats the Blue Mica STI (one of two that are still in transit) you are a lucky man. I originally went there Sat to order one of those, and to check the spec of the ones in stock. When I got there I found the two above mentioned had sold, so I only had the choice of the two in stock. (note that I had assumed the once on their forecourt were sourced from the same location of the blue ones)

I am quite annoyed as I had to sell my car quickly, and have spent money on advertising.

Olly.

Nick B

Olly,
I got my order in last week so just beat you to it - sorry!

Your could try Iain at Litchfield Imports. I was on the verge of ordering with him, but he couldn't get close enough in price to the Motorpoint deal, but he is still very reasonable for Euro sourced imports, and he does the full UK spec Alarms, Tracker etc in with the deal. He may still have the one available I was looking at last week (WR Blue Mica) due in August.

Cheers,
Nick

Pavlo

Moral of the story, get the answers in writing, you at least have some evidence then.

Other things to note:

Specifically state that you want a car from the EU because it has a warranty, put this to them in writing. If said car arrives, and isn't from EU, then it can be deemed to no be fit for (your specific) purpose, and you are entitled to a full refund inside 14 days (may be more). The important bit, is you must state any specific requirements first, it's their choice to supply to that need.

Having everything in writing allows you to go to court more easily. I think small claims court is limited to £3000 (or somes similar amount) so you're options there are limited, what's a warranty worth?

Make sure you lodge your complaints with the supplier, you can then show that they did understand your needs or concerns with their service.

If you pay (say) Motorpoint in the UK, your contract is with them, and they are responsible for meeting your needs, regardless of where the car comes from, they can't pass the buck if they accept your money.

You can pay under protest, but provided you have lodged your complaints, still go to court and get compensation.

The bbc watchdog website has a few guides and links.

Paul

mattstant

can only confirm that our company had no end of trouble with Derby motorpoint sourcing a bog standard focus.
Delivery dates were constantly put back and origin of car was never confirmed.
in the end went to main dealer and he damn near matched the same price with a much better and longer warranty.

wacky.banana

Interesting thread this. Seems the sticking point is the warranty and IM delivering on it (or not, as the case may be).

My view is that it is important to decide why you want to buy a car from Motorpoint and what you expect. First & foremost, Motorpoint's reson detre is to bring cars in & sell them cheap, they aren't bothered where they are sourced from.

If price is your key driver, then IMHO go out there and buy a 3rd party warranty. Alternatively source a warranty from Motorpoint themsleves.

If on the other hand the warranty is the most important driver in the buying decision process then you DON'T want to be buying your car from companies like these as it is likely that IM, for example may not honour them, for the reasons given elsewhere in this thread.

It's important to have clear in your mind what you want and how you go about protecting yourself form the potential pitfalls.

I have had friends buy cars from Motorpoint with no problems at all. Why? Because right from the outset they set out clear goals and objectives and bought accordingly.

Just my penny's worth.

WB

Simon (Webmaster), I can't see anything that I have had said that should cause you a problem.

Thanks

ollyshorey

wacky.banana

If you want a cheap car, motorpoint is good.. but I dont care how cheap it is, if the salesman does not disclose all the relevant information then that causes a big problem.

I am sure that if I had driven it off the forecout I would have been dead happy, but imagine getting to the 1000 mile service and finding out servicing and warranty problems.

I guess that whoever bought the other one there from malta will find out this way and be very pissed off.

Oh by the way, Motorpoint kept telling me that effectivly Subaru were wrong, and that they will honor the warranty !! I dont think so!

Olly.

Vate

I can only comment from the experience of a colleague of mine.
He needed a Mondeo Estate and I told him to take a look at Motorpoint and also the well advertised Trade-Sales.
I told him to take care regarding 'UK spec' as I knew that most of the vehicles they sell are direct from foreign RHD mkts like Cyprus. Yes the cars are great value but the critical point is that when you ask a question regarding the vehicles origin etc you should expect an honest professional reply.
He was told in both cases that the car was 'UK spec' and he specifically asked if the export country was outside the EU and was told "No sir". He asked "Are you sure?" and after a few moments pause the assistant at T-S told him that the vehicle actually was brought in from Cyrus to 'save time'. He also enquired regarding the warranty which as the vehicle came from outside the EU would only be 1yr from Ford but they supplied an additional warranty for a few hundred quid. He asked four times to see a copy of the warranty they supplied but although they sadi, "No problem sir" he never saw one. The fact is that whether you are parting with £17k or £14k you still expect decent service and to be able to deal with people you feel you can trust.
Needless to say he went to his local main dealer, the car cost £15.5k and he had some extras thrown in.
As an aside. Can you believe that the car only came with one transponder key and that an additional key would cost £125!

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

As far as I know Subaru GmbH do not and Will not supply right hand drive cars, it is hard enough getting the LHD STis here so I would be sceptical if you were offered a RHD car from Germany.

Steve

chiark

Wurzel, Subaru GMBH are not allowed to refuse to sell RHD cars. It's part of their terms of being allowed to sell cars, I believe...

A garage can refuse to sell you a car on business grounds, but the importer has to make RHD cars available.

This "outside-EU" debate will come to a head soon, especially with companies like Motorpoint and (I believe) Litchfield sourcing cars outside of the EU that are fully EU/UK spec with CoC...

Nick.

ex-webby

Hi All

Well done again to the majority, but I have had to delete two posts in this thread (one from olly) due to statements outside of the facts and purely specualtion on attitudes / what they care / don't care about / whether they are telling the truth, etc.

Unfortunately the reason entire threads are usually removed is that we don't have time to sift through each post and delete / edit, so the only way to protect ourselves and scoobynet is to delete it to reduce the likelihood that further posts will contain that kind of material.

I will leave this running once again (which again needs to be seen as going above and beyond to make sure this kind of subject can be discussed (if it can be discussed legally)) but will have to delete the entire thread if anything further is posted which cannot remain on scoobynet.

For this reason, please think carefully before posting. There could surely be NO complaints about deleting this thread now that all this effort has been made to keep it running.

All the best

Simon

bros2

Vate

Can't agree with you more. I've been in a similar position myself, and have asked specifically whether the car in question was EU supplied. I was told categorically that it was. Upon asking which country the car originated from, I was told Greece.

Greece turned into Cyprus, the deal was not done.

A different issue. My brother-in-law bought a Mondeo from one of the car supermarkets and (idiot that he is) didn't notice that the car he'd been sold was a diesel, rather than the petrol model he thought it was. It was only after filling the (empty) tank with £45 of unleaded and the car grinding to a halt that the mistake was discovered. The company concerned were, to be fair, extremely good, and sorted him out a new replacement that day with no questions asked - but it's worrying that they can get it so wrong in the first place.

Bros

Vate

I think it's fair to say that you do not need a UK main dealer to kiss your butt for an hour if you know about cars. I have regularly had to inform sales people about the features & facts of a car they were selling that they did not know.
Car Supermarkets are all very well but the people doing the selling still need a certain degree of savvy about the product they're are flogging. We're not talking about CDs at £9.99 here are we. LoL.
What we need are places that sell imported vehicles and who have a general anorak understanding of the cars they offer. Leave the franchised network to provide top quality servicing and fault fixing and we'd be laughing.

Reffro

With regard to all these warranty hassles I think its worth remembering one important point. Unlike most of the cars sold in the UK, Subaru's are not sold here by the Manufacturer, they are sold here by as you know IM Group. Therefore they have every right to play everything to the letter of law regarding EU/non-EU sourced vehicles.

As for the manufacturers there should be no excuse, they build them all in the same factories so warranties shouldn't vary from market to market. The reason they do is purely down to market competition and the supposed 3-year warranties cars are being supplied in the UK are usually nothing of the sort. They are 12/24mth manufacturer warranties with no cost extended dealers warranties to extend them to 3 years. The deal being you obviously have to buy the car from a franchised UK dealer, and importantly have the car serviced by a franchised dealer to keep the warranty valid. Check the small print in the brochures. They are not 3 year manufacturer warranties and they will have varying conditions regarding claims against them.

IM group support a manufacturers stlye warranty, and pay the costs of that support, so they are going to be a bit sniffy in providing the same UK level benefits to those people who import cars. It stands to reason, as they have made no profit from sale of such car, but are being asked to cough up money to help you run your car. By all means think ill of the Ford/VW/GM's who both manufacturer and distribute the cars, but give IM group a little slack, is all I'm saying.

Nick B

Just a quick update on this topic. Armed with this thread I asked Motorpoint to put the origin and warranty confirmation in writing to confirm the order. Lo and behold, the car is sourced from Malta by a Holland dealer.

Needless to say I'm now looking at this deal a lot closer, although Motorpoint have been very appologetic for the mistake and offered to match the 3 year warranty for no extra cost.

Nick

ChrisB

Check the warranty T&Cs very very closely if it's a 3rd party. Certain warranties company are known for avoiding claims anyway they can.

ex-webby

the waranty from motorpoint may be excellent, so this may not apply but...

I have a personal bug bare about 3rd party waranties. It seems as though they can class just about anything as wear and tear and although I have made around 4 or 5 claims on different 3rd party waranties, I have NEVER been paid out.

As suggested, check everything VERY carefully, and ask for additional information IN WRITING to check that certain parts of the car are covered and get them to define what is and is not considered wear and tear.

All the best

Simon

Silver Knight

Reffro makes an important point, I don't know about scoobys but Mitsubishi,s sold in the uk have a 3 year unlimited warranty the same from day 1 to end of three years,
The 2nd two years is backed by colt car co who are independent from Mitsubishi.
Cars from Cyprus/Ireland have a three year drivetrain warranty upto 60,000 mies only this does not cover things like electric window motors or wiper motors,purely engine and gearbox/diffs.
They are getting very strict now on claims for these cars, if the registration form in the front of the service book and the Pdi section is not filled in with country of origin they will not pay any warranty work at all.
We have had cars arriving from virtually every RHD country in the world (Australia and NZ,India,Thailand and the best one Azerbyjan all being passed of as EU imports) At the end of the day if you want a cheap car fine,if you want backup be carefull.
Factorys do make different levels of cars for different parts of the world.

Tony

carl

Warranty Direct claim that they cover wear-and-tear items. Managed to claim for a failed coil pack on the wife's Saxo -- took a while but they paid out in the end.