jason b

I test drove a evo6 makkinen today and i am thinking of trading the P1 in.
Help needed.
Is the makkinen about the best apart from the zero fighter/extreme????
Anybody done this?????? Or the other way round and own a scoob or P1 from an evo???
Is this a good move???????
Evo performance figures would help as it seemed a little slower than the P1??? owners figures if poss or comparison.
HELP
JAY.

Gastro

I've never driven an EVO 6/7, but what you are proposing is a sure way to lose £5-10K, and probably gaining very little - other than another couple of doors, and a smaller fuel tank and more frequent service schedules........??
Has *anyone* done this move - I'm interested in what others feel......! I think someone did the EVO6 --> P1 move.

Gastro

Mellow Yellow !

iTrader: (1)

Martin Sterling did such a move a month or so ago.......he's been posting a thread on P1 and the paint problem, if you go on general and back approx 10 days you'll come across him, nice chap.
If it's defo a Makkinen you want, Cem (Blow dog) has the best available at a reasonable price !

Chins

Jason

I think you need to post a little more about your deal, for other to post informed answers.

Mitsubishi make Subaru UK look professional when it comes to shifting 31k+ cars. They have a big store of unsold EVO 6 Makinens with the EVO VII due to arrive shortly in official form.

There is no doubt the Mak is a great car, and I looked at getting one, but residuals make the P1 look good at present. If your paying 25k for a 1,000 mile official Ralliart car or a couple less for unoffical, maybe its worth looking at. If not, unless you have serious money to burn ?

Let us know more to pas judgement

Jonathan

z80

I tested 3 evo VI's & a TM. P1 was better. Hence I bought a P1.

Stick with your P1.

Simon

Martin J Stirling

Firstly, thanks Mellow for those kind words.

Hi Jason, yes I'm your man.

I had an Evo VI GSR, more or less the same as the Mak apart from the Titanium turbo and lower springs on the Mak. I had the Evo for six months, but it was a culmination of several factors which eventually got me in the P1 and out of the Evo.

Firstly, running costs. My Evo was of the grey variety and according to the original jap service schedule the car was to be serviced every 4500 km's (3000 miles). This for me who drives the average 12K miles a year, equated to 4 services a year and with the average Mitsubishi service coming in around £200 for the basic one was quite pricey, as well as a pain in the ****.

Being an import, insurance was considerably higher for the Evo (about £400) and I had trouble finding people who would offer sensible quotes under £3000!

As you probably know, fuel consumption and fuel range is also a major pain on the Evo. I realise that with a car of this performance you are bound to have to make compromises in some areas but the poor fuel consumption together with the measley sized tank meant that I was filling up every 200 miles or so. In the P1 I can manage 300 miles to a tank which is quite a treat compared to the Evo.

Performance wise there is little to seperate the cars. Acceleration is the same in both cars, although the P1 seems brisker to me through the gears. Handling in both cars is quite different. The Evo seemed more planted on the road, yet a lot more nervous and skittish on anything other than smooth roads due to the firmness of the suspension. The P1 feels a lot more nimle and light footed and feels a lot more composed over rough and uneven surfaces. The handling of the P1 on the limit feels a little more neutral and predictable over the Evo where you never quite know what the AYC wil do.

The famous hard ride of the Evo, although a novelty at first, did become very tiresome after a while. Long journeys really did become a pain and you even begin to discover bumpy motorways that weren't there before.

The P1 although admitedly not as raw and in yer face as the Evo offers a real compromise in my opinion over the Evo. Offering near identical performance and handling attributes of the Evo, without the burden of high running costs and ride issues, the P1 really is a good package.

Hope that helps,

Good luck,

MS.

dowser

Is the handling of a P1 *that* different from a modified euro Scoob?

For me it was the poise of the tm evo which completely separates it from the Scoob - you turn the wheel and the car moves *instantly*...driving the Scoob afterwards feels a very 'rubberised' experience

I can also attest that on the limit the tm is fan-bloody-tastic (thanks again Mike!) It tears it's line through a corner; the owner of the one I tried was screaming at me to keep it floored through tight 2nd/3rd gear corners...and who am I to refuse ( )...it just beds down (feels like the rear sucks itself to the road, ayc?) and progresses briskly. When under power the back is 'out', but it doesn't feel like it! Bloody eats tyres though...I think the OE's lasted 4k km's

Trying the same thing in a Scoob leads to a massive 4 wheel drift.....I've tried on the same corner since Mike!

Different planet for me - but I've not tried a P1...hence my question on handling differences. Perhaps the extra power of the STi/P1 helps it's cornering under power? Mine's *just* a decatted PPP...but straight line performance is not so different.

Best thing is to drive one in 'anger' to compare. Both cars are awesome - it's then just a matter of which compromises you're willing/need to make.

Richard

ARRON BIRD

Use your head and order an M3.

chuckdog

Sorry to say I'd go ahead and do it. Flame suit on but the Mak is much rarer and more individual. I drove one a couple of months ago and would have been tempted if I didn't think the same arguements applied to the 22B, which I have to admit I prefer
If all you require is the better drivers car then I think the choice is much more difficult, but Mak would probably lose out as the loss you'd be making is too great to justify and perceived or real performance difference.
All IMHO
Chuck

Blow Dog

It amuses me when people state "The P1 is a better car" or vice versa. It is such a bullsh1t comment it holds no water whatsoever. There is so much difference in the way both cars perform, they are like chalk and cheese, despite their near identical layouts and purposes. I prefer the extreme rawness that comes hand in hand with the Evo, the directness, the tautness etc. But I can also see why people prefer the P1, a much more compliant car with suspension that is more habitable and perhaps a little more cosseting drive, but what a noise.

There is only one way to make a decision, and thats to drive them both, properly. There are some mad deals for UK Evo's now, but then again, I wouldn't buy a UK evo in a million years. The premium is just not worth it. Mitsubishi aftersales is also years ahead of its Subaru stablemate. They service imports, which is a lot more than can be said for Subaru.

One other thing. There is a lot more difference between the Mak and GSR than the turbo and suspension.

Cem

GCollier

Jason,

To try to answer some of your questions - I believe the Mak is widely considered "best of breed" for real-world driving so far as Evo VI's go. The eXtreme etc may well be faster, but its much stiffer springing supposedly compromises it as a road car. Some people prefer the more basic RSX, which is a little lighter, and has quicker steering (which from personal experience IS very nice), but lacks AYC and ABS.

I have to admit to being a little bemused when fuel, servicing or insurance costs are used to justify one car or the other. Depreciation is nearly always the biggest factor by car when it comes to cost of ownership of cars.
1) Neither car offers "good" fuel consumption. Admittedly, the tank size on the evo is a pathetically small 50litres, but in terms of overall fuel consumption there's not a great deal in it.
2) Shop around, and reasonable insurance can be obtained, at least (for some reason) for Ralliart cars. Bell direct, which gave me the best quote on my Evo (~ £800), wanted an identical premium for a P1.
3) Servicing intervals, yes 4500 miles for the evo. Here's a link to a nice site from someone on the LTR with some example costs.

wacko

EVO suspension will shake you to bits, plus dealers are trying to shift the Tommi versions and offering all sorts of freebies with them.

Jza

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ARRON BIRD:
<B>Use your head and order an M3.[/quote]

And wait for a few years for it to arrive... by which time you'll want the latest model..

Jza

Martin J Stirling

Ok. After having been contacted by the new owner of my old Evo, it seems that my comments regarding the ride of the Evo may be a little unfair. It turns out that my car had adjustable Ralliart suspension which was on its hardest setting and also that the geometry was all over the place. This means that my Evo experience may have been somewhat untypical, so please disregard my comments relating to the ride of the car.

Cem.
I never said the P1 was a better car, just that the P1 ultimately suits my requirements better. If you weren't aiming that comment at me then I apologise. Also just out of interst, what other performance related differences does the mak have over the GSR?

Cheers,

MS

harj

Jason if it were me I would go for the Mak anyday of the week between the 2!!!!

Alot better to drive, more consistent in cornering and looks the Bizzzzzzzzz

Cems car looks awesome and thats plenty to go by, only thing to be careful of is residuals as EVO Maks are dropping prices like Foot & Mouth. Ralliart are selling them quite cheaply but it depends on the Trade In price of the P1.

P1's will hold their price longer than the Mak wether its a UK or Import.

Speak to Iain Litchfield about test driving his EVO7 as its suppose to alot better than a 6 as plenty of people have said and Iains prices are really good.

Harj...

scoobymike

Haven't posted for a long time on this board.
I can only support dowser as it's my car he's talking about.
What really annoyes me is that people make judgements about cars which they have never actually driven, see also M3 threads. Especially thing like wacko "the suspension will shake you to bits" are just crap. I've got a Mak and I drove 650km at once just stopping for fuel together with my old man who is 56. No complaint about ride quality. Never ever any complaint from my better half even after 300km. So I have to suppose that some people just want to talk down the EVO or are just girlies. If you looking for comfort buy a Merc and not a performance car.
As dowser said when drive at 60-70% there is no big difference between the Scoob and the EVO. But trash it and there's no comparison. Probably the instant reactions to inputs by the EVO needs a bit more focus but you get the rewards.
Enjoy your cars whatever it is

Mike

Mike

Blow Dog

Martin,

Sorry, didn't mean to offend but there are quite a few statements made that just arent true, including some of yours.

Z80 made the comment about P1's being 'better'. It is natural to show a little brand loyalty, which is why I am keen to defend the car also, but I would be the first to appreciate the 'competition'.

Long live both cars me says, I am unhappy that there isnt even MORE choice out there, so beggars cant be choosers

Cem

jason b

Thanks for all the comments, when i drove the mak i did not think the suspension was to hard, in-fact i thought it was a lot better as it was more stable on the road and the feel through the steering was much more alert and responsive.
I am having a test drive in the evo7 this weekend to see what they are like?
Blowdog what sort of price should i be paying for a new mak????
Regards
j

IanF

Just a note on buying Ralliart official UK cars.

I paid £25K a year ago for an official car and sold it a month back for £22K (to Ralliart for cash).

At the time I bought the car I heard of people picking up unofficial cars (same age etc etc) for £22.5K. At the time I sold my car a comparable unofficial car was fetching between £18 and £19K.

I made two claims on the warranty, one minor and one major gearbox related claim.

Whilst there is a premium on Ralliart cars, it is reflected in the resale value.

I guess the cost/benefit analysis should look at the extra financing cost versus the strength of an aftermarket warranty as opposed to the Mitsubishi warranty, rather than the outright purchase prices.

Regards
IanF

Blow Dog

Ian,
A very good point, one that is often missed out by me too. Although the premium to buy a UK car exists, there is also one when it comes to selling it.

Jason,
For a brand new Makinen? Well, if it was me, I would pay no more than £26k for an import and £28k for a UK car. I don't quite know the market that well so can't really comment too much.

Cem

Gastro

mmmmm, reading through all of the posts so far just reinforces the idea that there really aint ainything between the two cars...... other than the amount you'll pay out for the change.......
Your call !

Gastro

Martin J Stirling

Blowdog,

I'm sorry if you don't hold the same opinion as me, but all the comments that I made in my experience ARE true. Many of the things that we are discussing here are subjective and whilst owning my Evo VI for six months, what I have written are my perceptions of owning the car. If in your experience the car is different, then very well, after all we are only expressing opinions as to the characteristics of the car. Obviously, we, like all the motoring magazines, perceive the cars differently. Hence, Autocar undoubtedly prefer the Evo and Evo magazine seem to prefer the P1.

Neither car is better than the other, the P1 suits me more - that's all..

I am not wrong, it's just my opinion.

All the best,

MS

Blow Dog

Hey Martin,

I agree, sorry, I didn't mean to start an arguement, but I have to say that some of the facts you were stating <I>were</I> wrong.

Servicing is every 4500 miles, not 3000.
There is much more difference between GSR and the Mak than youve stated.
Insurance isn't that expensive.

But as you say, the rest is subjective and I respect your opinion

cem

andrew h

I had an evo6 last year and loved it to bits.I did find it a tad too firm for the roads here in yorkshire, but the performance steering and brakes were awesome. It sounded like a hoover even with a mongoose cat free exhaust.
I now have a P1 but am still running in, first impressions fantastic gearshift suspension perfect for uk roads.
Hopefully having downpipe and centre section fitted tomorrow at tsl motorsport provided they can fit me in. Even without it sounds a lot better than the evo.
Still think the evo looks better though!
Andy

spension just right,. brakes crap

scoobymike

Additionally the Mak has the quicker steering rack (2.2 turns) compared to the GSR. Also the fuel tank is internally different to avoid surge during heavy cornering.
All other things have been listed be Cem.

Mike

GCollier

Thanks Cem (and Mike). I shall stop pestering you now

GCollier

Martin is right - I checked my car documentation last night, and although the Ralliart UK service book says 4500 mile intervals, the maintenance section of the handbook says oil change at 5000km or 3000miles.

I'm also very interested to know what the "lot more differences" are between the Mak and GSR that Cem keeps talking about too.

Cheers,

Gary.

Blow Dog

Improvements are as follows, some are performance enhancing, others are cosmetic:

This is just what I can remember, there are more and if you want to know, tell me and i'll fetch my brochure.

Cem

GCollier

Thanks for that Cem. I couldn't find anything on the web, and I could only remember reading about the redesigned turbo and tweaked suspension in the mag road tests.

Are these changes noticeable on the road? Is there less lag (there's hardly any anyway)? Do the suspension changes make much difference?

Maybe I should have bought at Mak at the time, but the extra 2K seemed a little hard to justify.

Cheers,

Gary.

Blow Dog

Gary,

Well, from my experience, the most notable difference was in the suspension. Although just as taut, it was less inclined to 'roll' about and wasn't as bouncy as the GSR. Its like the progressive suspension offered from Eibach.

Also, there is a more noticable urgency from the turbo, although not immediately apparent, it is much more accesible becuase of its lighter internals.

The intercooler, oil cooled internals and improved airdam no doubt improve engine efficiency, many people belive that the Mak leaves the factory with a bit more than its specified 276BHP, I certainly think it feels a lot swifter. But the main reason I bought it? I love the red paint job and stickers, end of story It was the single strongest defining factor for me.

Cem