Ian Sutton

This w/e I will finally be changing my part gold MIM's with worn SO2's tyres for some PD7's with SO3's. Obvoiusly Tyres Northampton who supplied the new rubber were going to do this at Speed & Feed. But due to me not buying new standard Subaru wheel nuts the transfer wasn't possible.

So the question (finally) is will the standard wheel brace be okay for the job. I have been told that a torque wrench is what I need to get the wheels safely on.

Any views? Or cheap suppliers of said tool?

...Ian

fast bloke

you are always supposed to use a torque wrench for tightening wheel nuts on EVERY car. I usually go for the'feckin tight' setting on my standard wheel brace.

Dark

iTrader: (1)

Ideally yes. I think 70lb/ft is what Pete Croney has recommended before.

I was warned that not using a torque wrench could warp the front disks. Unfortunately I was told this after warping the front disks on my AP's. I've used a torque wrench ever since and haven't had any more problems.

Mark

Scott J Davies

Don't trust your ol M8

Chris L

I would recommend a torque wrench as well. There are a lot of nuts / bolts that actually require specific torque settings, so they are worth investing in. You can pick one up for £40 in Halfords. Be warned though, that they do a couple of sizes. The smaller 3/8" drive version won't go up to the necessary torque for wheel tightening. The larger 1/2" drive version will, but you'll obviously need a 1/2" drive socket (19mm if my memory serves me right) to tighten the wheels.

Chris

Paul Wilson

A few points aboput torque wrenches in general.

Always leave unwound, ie at minimum torque setting.

When setting a torque work up to it not down to it.

And most importantly - tighten until the torque wrench clicks, then STOP IMMEDIATLY, I've lost count of the number of people I've seen torquing up a nut , torque wrench clicks, then they go another 1/8th of a turn. Yes it will be at least the set torque, but over torquing is as bad / worse than under torquing.

To give you an idea, 1/8th of a turn more on a wheel nut on a Caterham (19mm) takes the torque from 70 lb/ft to about 120-140 lb/ft.

Tyres Northamton guys at Bedford were doing it correctly, but this is an exeption rather than the rule with tyre places. Also remember to re torque your wheels after 50 miles.

Phew, lesson over

guess what I made as a first year engineering project.

fast bloke

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Paul Wilson:
<B>
When setting a torque work up to it not down to it.

[/quote]

Paul,
I'm not being pedantic, but how do you work down to it?

Harrymattson

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by fast bloke:
<B> Paul,
I'm not being pedantic, but how do you work down to it?[/quote]

By tightening the fastner way past the max torque setting and then backing the fastner off. This will NOT give the correct torque setting from the fastner.
Also read the spec very carfully before you add a lubricant to the thread and/or taper seat. If the fastner was designed to be torqued dry and you add a lucricant (such as copper ease) you will over-torque the fastner by a huge amount. This can, and very usually does, lead to the fastner being "streched" to way aver its elastic limit untill it yields leaving a permenant set. Once a material has been strained past it's yield point it will rapidly fail - and you don't wont that to happen - three wheels (or less ) on me wagon!!!!!!!!!
Matt.

Paul Wilson

Matts right, but what i meant was that the torque should be set from the minimum position to the setting you want. ie. start at 0 Lb/ft, then go to say 70 Lb/ft. If you then need to tighten something to 30 Lb/ft, take the setting BELOW 30 LB/ft, say to 20 , then wind back up to 30 LB/Ft.

If you play around with a torque wrench you will feel why, the calibration is only valid when goiung up the scale, there will be some backlash when going the other way, and the actual torque can vary by 10-20 lb/ft from what the scale will say

fast bloke

Thanks Paul. I was thinking along matt's idea and reckoned that you would get completely random results

Ian Sutton

Bugger!! so when I took both my fronts off the other month to give the calipers a dust and put the wheels back on using my Subaru supplied wheel brace and the odd applied stamp. I ran the risk of my wheels falling off?

I may have to get my local garage to change them for £25ish as the tool is a bit toppy at £40+!!

...Ian

jamesa

Have recently bought the forty quid item from Halfords - OK - sound instructions - lifetime cover and made by Sykes - Pickevant who are a reputable company.

This is the first time I`ve had one for personal use and have previously never had a problem with the standard method.

Cheers

Paul Wilson

Ian, I wouldn't stamp on the wheel brace, if you imagine the wheel brace is say 1 foot from the nut to where you stamp, and you put all your weight on it, and you weigh 200 lbs, thats 200 lb/ft. As a rough guide, tighten all the nuts up by hand, then a bit more with the wheel brace, but don't put any effort into it, then tighten to about as hard as you can PULL up with ONE hand. That should equal about 50-70 lb/ft.

When you are tightening your nuts (ooo err missus ) do one, then the one opposite it , then one of the other 2 , then the one, opposite that. Stops you putting loads of strain on one side of the wheel and not the other.

PeteT

"If the fastner was designed to be torqued dry and you add a lucricant (such as copper ease) you will over-torque the fastner by a huge amount. This can, and very usually does, lead to the fastner being "streched" to way aver its elastic limit untill it yields leaving a permenant set. Once a material has been strained past it's yield point it will rapidly fail - and you don't wont that to happen - three wheels (or less ) on me wagon!!!!!!!!!"

AAAAAARGH,
guess who put copperslip on all his wheel nuts when he changed them over !!

Should I take them off and wipe it off or is the supposed damage already done ??

Shark

Use a torque wrench, but in theory it should be calibrated at least every 6 months.

Over tightening will stretch the threads on the studs. If your not sure, pop into your dealer and ask him to do it, but make sure he gets his wrenches calibrated.

If your in the area Ian, pop in and I'll check them for you.

David

[This message has been edited by Shark (edited 04 June 2001).]

AndyMc

If you use a bit of 'common' tightening by hand should be fine.I think you guys are being a bit over the top IMHO.If it was such a safety issue then cars would come with a torque wrench in the tool kit for when you get a flat tyre etc.

I bet of all the cars on the road only a tiny percentage have had their wheel torqued up properly while the rest were tightened using air wrenches to about 1000lb/ft.

Personally over the years I have fitted hundreds of wheels without using a torque-wrench and have never snapped a stud or had a wheel come loose.
The only place I always use a torque wrench is on cylinder head bolts, especially if they are the torque-to-yield type(which feel like they are going to snap)

Andy

Tony Quinn

It's not a problem to use the standard wheel brace. 70lbft is not alot of torque so a firm push is enough for most people to achieve the correct torque. There is no need to bounce up and down on the wheel brace when tightening wheel nuts. Over-torquing is rarely a problem, example. I just removed over-torqued wheel nuts from my car and I have never seen a breaker bar bend so much in my life. Handbrake on, car in gear and the car was still rolling backwards with the bar bending but without the wheel nuts moving until the socket breaks. So off I go to the auto factors to get the biggest most reinforced 19mm socket I can find.

I pick up a friend en route so that he can sit in the car with his foot on the brake pedal. Now the bar is bending by a ridiculous amount and the car is still rolling backwards! I was just about to resort to one of Tony's patented dumb ideas, (i.e. move everyone to a safe distance, wedge the bar against the ground and drive forwards) when the first wheel nut gave. Hey Paul, can I join you and Tim on the next Nurburgring pit crew? I also helped get a car mobile again after a brake disc failure using only tie wraps, one scavenged suspension part and a wrench. The tie wraps for the brake repair was my idea and it sprang instantly to mind. It took about an hour to convince my friend that it would work though. Anyway, the other four wheel nuts were a similar struggle but all were undamaged and wound straight back in without problem. My point? Precision ain't entirely necessary, try to borrow a torque wrench. It'll sort you out on this occasion and you'll get to see what 70lbft feels like. I use 60 myself and have not lost a wheel yet but recommend that you go with Pete's recommendation.

Paul Wilson

Anytime Tony, and we even have a box of 650 tiewraps for Bodge and Quit to keep you happy

For years I never used a torque wrench, but when you get one, you just end up using it for everything. I just annoys me when I see a tyre place using a torque wrench, but doing it totally incorrectly.

I always use a torque wrench on the race cars, as the wheels come off about 3-5 times everytime we go racing, which works out about 60 times a year, if you start over doing those, your going to end up shaving away the alloy. Of course a standard car, your only going to take the wheels off perhaps 30 times in its whole life so not really an issue.