Mad Max

Just got the idea from a thread where this guy asks everybody what alarm they have, but nobody wants to say...

So, how many of you have had your pride and joy stolen, with an alarm or an imobiliser fitted professionally ?

I'm asking real pro stuff, since stealing the keys from your house, or car jacking, or even circumventing an amateur alarm doesn't bypass the alarm system.

I'm just wondering how safe my scooby is, with the standard immobiliser (fitted from factory on my MY01), plus an alarm/imobiliser from a known brand (Ok, they got me paranoid too !!! )

By the way, how safe is the factory imobiliser (wich works with the ignition key) ?

Cheers

Rui

Low Flyer Maverick

Typically a portuguese question...

My friend, I dont want to demoralize you but if a real pro wants it, HE'll take it...

And in belgium we have a real problem with the Imp : theyr getting stolen by pros who uses them for holdup and then burn it down!
Good choice, very good car! Problem is that they'r not amateur, so alarms make them laugh! You know when u plan to break in a bank, no problem to break in an Imp!

I'm very concerned also for my bike : a friend got his bike stolen despite the fact that the bike was inside the house (hall) , with wheel blockers on.
He's still crying! Because the good news is : he just received it back from the paintshop where they just finished a wonderfull custom paint...bout 1000$ worth...

Mad Max

True Mav, but I thought the microchip in the key activated the ECU... And with a non-working ECU, how the HELL do they start the engine ?

Max

chiark

They steal your keys

Nick.

fast bloke

If they can break into your house and disarm a house alarm with 24 hour monitoring (The alarm is almost completely tamperproof, I put a nail through a sensor cable and the company called me withing 30 seconds) then a car system won't cause them too much grief. This happened too me.
In another Scooby theft in Tipperary a couple of weeks ago they waited until the owner opened the car then forced him to hand over keys at knifepoint.
My car has not been recovered and the Irish Garda believe it has been used in 20+ armed robberies in the past 2 months. If they want it, the will take it...

Mad Max

Yes, I was aware of all these unfortunate facts, and do what I can to avoid them (Park in crouded well lit areas, sleep with my keys (literally ) etc ). I was more thinking along the lines of:

1) You have the microchip key imobiliser.
2) You have a good alarm/imobiliser suplement the factory one.
3) Nobody gets into your house or steals your keys.
4) You don't get surprised on a parking lot nor car-jacked.

Did anybody just walked to the place where the car had been parked the evening before, to find the alarm and imobiliser circumvented, and the car just gone ?

fast bloke

If you have a cat 1 system it is generally so difficult that they won't bother. They will go and steal one from some other sucker (me) instead. Cat 1 system and Tracker horizion is about as far as you can go without getting silly

Mad Max

Remember I am in Portugal... CAT1 here is a beach in the Carabian... . And a tracker is something that hasn't been invented yet ...

I still haven't had any examples like the one I asked for. So are modern day alarms / imobilisers as good as they say they are ? Does the MY01 chipinthekey really work ?

chiark

Dunno how good a chip in the key system is, but given time, they'll bypass it.

I take your point about it being part of the ECU, so how can they get around it, but a particularly enterprising thief may have a way around it that would involve a little thought, knowledge of the scoob, a bit of preparation and say 30 seconds.

I'll not post it, but I'm sure you can guess.

Nick.

chiark

And as for professional fit alarms, no matter how good they are someone will always be able to "undo" the work. A decent installed alarm (ie black cables, loomed into the standard wiring loom and disguised runs (loomed with tape, etc)) may take a while to trace, but it can be traced.

The Clifford wireless fuel guard makes it fun, but given enough determination it can be found.

This sort of stuff, providing it is well fitted, will put the risk of being caught and the amount of effort that you have to expend well above the potential reward.

Nick.

Mad Max

Yes, I am well aware of all those potential problems, but... do you have examples of it being done ? Anybody ? Or is this all theory ? I know it can be done (I am a software developer, and am well aware that no matter how safe a system is, no system is flawless), but has it been done yet ? (Hope not !!!)

MrWood

I know in some parts of the USA, Carjacking is a widespread problem! So to combat this, Clifford invented the Hi-Jax (I think thats how they spell it?). This device allows you to surrender your pride and joy to the thieving scum, and when they're a safe distance away from you, you dial a phone number and your car is shut down progressively! A brilliant system!
No good if they cut your handbrake cable and winch it onto the back of a recovery truck though!!!

Always leave your car parked in gear...

Squizz

I've got a standard alarm/Immobiliser.

Tracker.

Stoplock that covers the steering wheel.

And now I reverse my car into a parking space, and lock it into revers with my Barrier Deadlock.

Paranoid, Moi?

Matty B

Same as Sqizz, without the wheel lock, but I'm still nervous since it was stolen by professionals a year ago - thanx to Tracker it was found in half an hour some 30 miles away.
So I now have new alarm/immobiliser and Barrier Deadlock

ork

I used to have a saphire cossie.
had a cat1 alarm , imobilizer, stop lock, auto lock, crook lock and the ignition lead removed. Got woke up at about 3 am one sunday morning with my alarm going off, looked out to see some maniac with the bonnet opened trying to disarm it.
This was a few years ago, and alarms have got smarter now, but they will still try if they really want your car.

Always leave the car in gear, preferably first, and sleep very lightly.

JW390898

Whats the pros of leaving the car in gear then? I mean i do simply as a safe guard from a handbrake fail but what purpose it provide when it comes to thieving?

evo5uk

So is evryones reccomendation to upgrade the standard subaru alarm to a professional fit one?

cpofwales

Remember, for an alarm immobiliser to attain a thatcham CAT1 status, it must hold off a professional theif for more than 5 minutes, It doesnt mean they cant be bypassed, As an alarm fitter, with the knowhow, I dont think theres an alarm on the market that would take more than 8-10 mins. Their only to stop the opertunist, the pro will always win!

ork

It depends on where your car is left at night, but I have heard a story that the theives can cut your handbrake cable and push the car down the road to disable the alarm and you might not here it

Sounds plausable enought to me.

MrWood

They do cut your handbrake cable, and the pros (ringers/exporters) usually then winch your car onto the back of a recovery vehicle (with bogus Green Flag/RAC/AA etc. stickers! etc???) and then carry it away to their lockup to get to work on the alarm!!! That way they can help themselves to whatever they want, and joe public would not bat an eyelid!

If you leave your car in 1st gear, All FOUR wheels are locked, so can't be winched onto a transporter!
The only way then for them to select neutral is to break into your car, triggering the alarm and causing a scene!

Remember to put it in 1st next time you leave your car outside a cinema... Top cars go missing on a very regular basis from outside the UCI in Hull!!!

John Stevenson

I had a cat1 on my Porker. Over a three year period if fecked up 4 times and imobilised the car. First three times I called the installers out and they removed the imobiliser and fixed it. I was so pissed off the 4rth time I figured I didn't need the grief. Took me 20 mins to bypass the imobiliser circuits (without practice mind ). Think what a pro could do ?

P.S. I am (used to be) an Electronics Engineer.

MrWood

Sound like there could have been a 'Frog' in there John!!! Old cat 1's are slightly problematic!
I'm using the latest Clifford Concept 300 G4 (Digital) cat 1. The only problem I have is in a certain area of Grimsby, were there is a powerfull transmitter and I have to put my remote up to where the alarms antenna is to get it to say 'Disarmed'! (Intellivoice 4 is tops!)

Low Flyer Maverick

Two flawless alarms:

- sleep in your car with an Ak 47...and then you'd LOVE a thief to try

- when parking the car, leave your Pitbull in it : a nice upgrade of this alarm would be to put the pitbull on a soja diet for a few weeks.

Mad Max

Yes, from my apartment, I have a nice "sniper" view to the place I usually park, but for that to work, I have to hear the alarm going... Tired as I've been, it's not gonna be easy !!!

Mad Max

Hey, Matty... Did they break into the car, and cracked the alarm, or did they just load it into a truck ?

This is because my main question was: Do an alarm + standard imobiliser (professionally fitted) do the job they are supposed to ? Or is it possible for a professional to circumvent it before it even starts screaming ?

I know they can tow it away, or into a truck, or car-jack it, but that isn't the question. Did this happen to anybody ?

[This message has been edited by Mad Max (edited 28 May 2001).]

Richard Askew

........a mate of a mate in Kidderminster had his Caterham Super 7 stolen from his house in broad daylight........the car was alarmed/immobilised/had a barrier deadlock and a snap off steering wheel fitted.......the chassis was also chained and padlocked to an anchor bolt sunk into concrete on his drive.......... then a week to the day after it was stolen he came back from work to find it back where it was.......immaculate, rechained to the drive with a new padlock and the new keys for the lock were pushed thru his letter box with a note saying " just to let you know that we could...."
One of the strangest thefts I've ever heard of............

Mad Max

Richard, that really seems like a prank pulled by friends of "the victim"...

Like, they "steal" the keys, copy them, and put the original back. Use the alarm's second remote, and put it back into place. "Steal" the car for a week, and put it back with a note :-)) I have a few friends capable of pulling that one out .

Richard Askew

.......it was no joke mate.......several others have gone from Worcestershire.........his was one of the only ones found

Matty B

Mad Max -
it was taken from a pub car park, which that evening (my birthday) did not have the car park lights on!!!??? It had the drivers door lock screwdrivered, the steering lock smashed, the fascia under the steering wheel "dislodged" (ie ripped off). This was just 4 mins before I came out of the pub
- they must have found a ton of wiring tho'

It was seen belting up the motorway by the police heli, and chased - lucky I've not taken the limiter off innit
and it even passed the recovery truck that was sent to collect it later

So, they got in & presumably bypassed the alarm and immob. - no idea how, as I thought it was safe.

Even when it was transported from the recovery garage to the repair garage, Tracker rang me to query if it was being stolen again (slight heart failure!!)

Matthew