Did you broquets work?
22 May 2001, 01:21 PM
#2
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Nothing to report yet, though that's not to say I have not seen any results. It's simply that I'm doing my own 'tests' ie; just driving about 
and I want to do a few more miles before commenting.
Give it another couple of weeks and I'll post my results.
and I want to do a few more miles before commenting.Give it another couple of weeks and I'll post my results.
14 January 2004, 08:59 PM
#6
Ecu Specialist
I have had it in the STi5 since I first got it which was Dec 2000, and in the Sti2 wagaon prior to that, I have a set here on my desk to put into the STi9 when she comes back. The debate is always contentious, some call it snake oil, some don't, some quietly get on with it. If you do a search I've posted in detail in the past, I suppose the fact I'm still going to use it must say something.
Not going to debate it all over again though, my thinking on it is pretty clear. How you perceive benefit is down to expectation in the first place.
cheers
bob
Not going to debate it all over again though, my thinking on it is pretty clear. How you perceive benefit is down to expectation in the first place.
cheers
bob
14 January 2004, 09:06 PM
#7
The old mans '82 XJS V12 has two of the things fitted.....
Though we wont run the thing on anything less than SUL 98 - the risk of melting one of the 12 pistons when running on 12.5:1 compression is far too worrying
[Edited by ALi-B - 1/14/2004 9:28:55 PM]
Though we wont run the thing on anything less than SUL 98 - the risk of melting one of the 12 pistons when running on 12.5:1 compression is far too worrying
[Edited by ALi-B - 1/14/2004 9:28:55 PM]
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14 January 2004, 10:27 PM
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This is what Bob Rawle posted some time ago.
"I have used Broquet in both Imprezas that I have owned. I too got curious about what it was claimed to do and invested really to find out. At the time I had Sti 2 Wagon running with Link ecu (later Motec), HKS Hiper, Scoobysport downpipe, HKS induction kit etc. I was really interested in seeing if I could use Broquet to increase fuel quality enough so that I could run more ignition advance. The reduction in Ron rating from 98 to 97 (SUL) had necessitated my retarding my timing by several degrees and I was keen to get it back.
I installed the Broquet with a virtually empty tank for safety reasons, drove to the nearest garage for SUL (round trip of 20 miles or so). Driving back I started to notice differences, idle quality improved, engine ran more smoothly, car felt more willing to pull and more flexible. Over the next few weeks I monitored fuel consumption and did get an improvement, not by the 9% some people have mentioned but I certainly got 5%, bear in mind that this is over my "normal" terrain where I use the performance of the car to the full as well as cruise. I found that I had to reduce the fuel map values in order to maintain my optimum AFR. Timing ... well I tried to advance it up, the engine had a higher compression ratio than a saloon so as soon as I pushed it the big red light went off, it was purely down to charge temperature increase due to the boost I was running (1.4 bar) and the small early intercooler. Then I started to use booster as well and was able to make small increases in timing but the charge temperature of the small intercooler was still the limiting factor. I covered some 35000 miles with Broquet in the tank with that car.
I now own a STi 5 four door running with programmable engine management and other goodies. I installed Broquet two weeks ago.
I had already mapped the ecu with as much advance as I reasonably could and was again interested in whether Broquet would make a difference to this car. Same installation process, drive to the same garage after and got exactly the same improvement in all areas on the way back home, car was very much smoother and really felt willing to go. I had already taken a dyno curve of the "before" and waited a week to get the "after". I did the comparison with exactly the same map in the ecu. I was hoping for a power improvement ... I didn't actually get that, what I did get was a very quiet Knocklink, before fitting I would get a couple of steady lights up above 5800 rpm, now nothing. So no increase in power but I felt the opportunity to raise the anti by increasing timing. Since then I have changed the turbo again and so maybe this is not a fair statement but I have been able to increase timing since then and the car is now producing some 20 odd comparative horsepower more than before (lots more torque though). As I say, I am not sure how much of that is down to the turbo change but what I can say is that I certainly was able to advance it up by 1-2 degrees.
So sorry for the epistle but having spent quite a lot of time and effort in attempting to determine its benefits I though that some of you may find this post of interest.
My conclusion is ... engine runs more smoothly, fuel consumption improves in like for like driving situations, performance may be increased if programmable management is used. In short its a benefit and worth the money IMHO.
BTW, Broquet in P1’s? The P1 is quoted as having 276 bhp at 6500 rpm and 259 ft lb at 4000 rpm "using 100 Ron fuel". Given the best UK fuel is 97 Ron and I have established that Broquet will allow an engine to run more optimally then I would say its a fair bet, Subaru quote "only" 3 degrees of det retard when running on 95 Ron, that means yes it dets but that the ecu compensates, given my own experience of mapping for 95 Ron use then normally going from 97 to 95 Ron means approx 4 degree retardation is required, as the car is obviously optimised for 100 Ron then something like Broquet must be used to achieve the desired result in the UK. Just my opinion.
Bob
One or two further comments.
You need to do circa 200 ish miles or so to get the pellets working fully, I noticed it after 30 miles but waited for the 200 minimum before doing my "after" tests.
The main reason that I did not get a "power increase" after fitting was that I kept my ecu maps the same. As I run from the maps the timing does not alter under most conditions (dependent on my temperature compensation settings of course) so I was not surprised at that. What I have been able to do is run more timing up to the det limit than without it so in "real" terms and if I was using an ecu that always tried to advance up (i.e. Bosch management) then there would be a power increase.
Shaun, I can't say whether it increases Ron, its certainly worth installing though IMHO. I actually use booster to ensure that is the case in addition to Broquet but the Broquet is allowing me to take some extra steps. I did try that experiment with the Wagon and wasn't able to compensate with Broquet alone. Unfortunately it would take too much work to try it again with the "5".
My cruise area of the fuel map is now running at a slightly lower level than before, as I run that closed loop then it would be self compensating but I ran it straight off the map to see and was pleased to be able to repeat the results that I had when I put it into the Wagon.
As a last ... yes I know it’s hard to understand how it works and I was as sceptical as anyone, I do not endorse/recommend or criticise anything that I have not tried and tested. In this case I think it provides benefit and I have twice carried out similar tests on two different cars to achieve similar results."
Bob
============
David Lock (Broquet Distributor). John Banks also tested and reported that it was worth 2-3 degrees advance.
"I have used Broquet in both Imprezas that I have owned. I too got curious about what it was claimed to do and invested really to find out. At the time I had Sti 2 Wagon running with Link ecu (later Motec), HKS Hiper, Scoobysport downpipe, HKS induction kit etc. I was really interested in seeing if I could use Broquet to increase fuel quality enough so that I could run more ignition advance. The reduction in Ron rating from 98 to 97 (SUL) had necessitated my retarding my timing by several degrees and I was keen to get it back.
I installed the Broquet with a virtually empty tank for safety reasons, drove to the nearest garage for SUL (round trip of 20 miles or so). Driving back I started to notice differences, idle quality improved, engine ran more smoothly, car felt more willing to pull and more flexible. Over the next few weeks I monitored fuel consumption and did get an improvement, not by the 9% some people have mentioned but I certainly got 5%, bear in mind that this is over my "normal" terrain where I use the performance of the car to the full as well as cruise. I found that I had to reduce the fuel map values in order to maintain my optimum AFR. Timing ... well I tried to advance it up, the engine had a higher compression ratio than a saloon so as soon as I pushed it the big red light went off, it was purely down to charge temperature increase due to the boost I was running (1.4 bar) and the small early intercooler. Then I started to use booster as well and was able to make small increases in timing but the charge temperature of the small intercooler was still the limiting factor. I covered some 35000 miles with Broquet in the tank with that car.
I now own a STi 5 four door running with programmable engine management and other goodies. I installed Broquet two weeks ago.
I had already mapped the ecu with as much advance as I reasonably could and was again interested in whether Broquet would make a difference to this car. Same installation process, drive to the same garage after and got exactly the same improvement in all areas on the way back home, car was very much smoother and really felt willing to go. I had already taken a dyno curve of the "before" and waited a week to get the "after". I did the comparison with exactly the same map in the ecu. I was hoping for a power improvement ... I didn't actually get that, what I did get was a very quiet Knocklink, before fitting I would get a couple of steady lights up above 5800 rpm, now nothing. So no increase in power but I felt the opportunity to raise the anti by increasing timing. Since then I have changed the turbo again and so maybe this is not a fair statement but I have been able to increase timing since then and the car is now producing some 20 odd comparative horsepower more than before (lots more torque though). As I say, I am not sure how much of that is down to the turbo change but what I can say is that I certainly was able to advance it up by 1-2 degrees.
So sorry for the epistle but having spent quite a lot of time and effort in attempting to determine its benefits I though that some of you may find this post of interest.
My conclusion is ... engine runs more smoothly, fuel consumption improves in like for like driving situations, performance may be increased if programmable management is used. In short its a benefit and worth the money IMHO.
BTW, Broquet in P1’s? The P1 is quoted as having 276 bhp at 6500 rpm and 259 ft lb at 4000 rpm "using 100 Ron fuel". Given the best UK fuel is 97 Ron and I have established that Broquet will allow an engine to run more optimally then I would say its a fair bet, Subaru quote "only" 3 degrees of det retard when running on 95 Ron, that means yes it dets but that the ecu compensates, given my own experience of mapping for 95 Ron use then normally going from 97 to 95 Ron means approx 4 degree retardation is required, as the car is obviously optimised for 100 Ron then something like Broquet must be used to achieve the desired result in the UK. Just my opinion.
Bob
One or two further comments.
You need to do circa 200 ish miles or so to get the pellets working fully, I noticed it after 30 miles but waited for the 200 minimum before doing my "after" tests.
The main reason that I did not get a "power increase" after fitting was that I kept my ecu maps the same. As I run from the maps the timing does not alter under most conditions (dependent on my temperature compensation settings of course) so I was not surprised at that. What I have been able to do is run more timing up to the det limit than without it so in "real" terms and if I was using an ecu that always tried to advance up (i.e. Bosch management) then there would be a power increase.
Shaun, I can't say whether it increases Ron, its certainly worth installing though IMHO. I actually use booster to ensure that is the case in addition to Broquet but the Broquet is allowing me to take some extra steps. I did try that experiment with the Wagon and wasn't able to compensate with Broquet alone. Unfortunately it would take too much work to try it again with the "5".
My cruise area of the fuel map is now running at a slightly lower level than before, as I run that closed loop then it would be self compensating but I ran it straight off the map to see and was pleased to be able to repeat the results that I had when I put it into the Wagon.
As a last ... yes I know it’s hard to understand how it works and I was as sceptical as anyone, I do not endorse/recommend or criticise anything that I have not tried and tested. In this case I think it provides benefit and I have twice carried out similar tests on two different cars to achieve similar results."
Bob
============
David Lock (Broquet Distributor). John Banks also tested and reported that it was worth 2-3 degrees advance.
14 January 2004, 11:01 PM
#12
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I have them in my JDM 93 WRX and have had for four years. I've never had any engine trouble (unlike some). After fitting I remember that the car ran a lot smoother than before. As has been mentioned there are those sceptics out there who want absolute evidence that they do work but I reckon they do. Plus why would Prodrive fit them to the P1's if they weren't any good? Weren't they Jap spec based cars that need higher RON fuel?
14 January 2004, 11:51 PM
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Mark
Thanks for the advice re brake disks tonight, and for the crack !!...Nice rear wing by the way. I got home despite the hole in the Aircon hose
Bob, I'm down your way end of January for a re-map...is this something you would recommend ??
Midlife.....
Thanks for the advice re brake disks tonight, and for the crack !!...Nice rear wing by the way. I got home despite the hole in the Aircon hose
Bob, I'm down your way end of January for a re-map...is this something you would recommend ??
Midlife.....
16 January 2004, 08:59 AM
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Adam,
When I got my 22b, I fitted them as it was still mapped for 100RON. Running Optimax I still got some knocklink activity, so I now run with NF and the knocklink is silent all the way to the red line. AFR looks fine too
Still not sure if they work but I'd read about Bob's testing and I'm happy to take what he has said at face value.
Dave.
When I got my 22b, I fitted them as it was still mapped for 100RON. Running Optimax I still got some knocklink activity, so I now run with NF and the knocklink is silent all the way to the red line. AFR looks fine too
Still not sure if they work but I'd read about Bob's testing and I'm happy to take what he has said at face value.
Dave.
16 January 2004, 11:10 AM
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Anyone with an 03 STI Type UK and a spanner can look very, very easily.
I for one would like this answered unequivocally.
Anyone with a STI 8 like to let us open up their petrol tank and check? It's a fifteen minute job, maximum.
Cheers,
Nick.
I for one would like this answered unequivocally.
Anyone with a STI 8 like to let us open up their petrol tank and check? It's a fifteen minute job, maximum.
Cheers,
Nick.
16 January 2004, 12:13 PM
#26
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really makes me laugh when someone replies to a question I asked just under three years ago!
I am with bob on this.
For the sake of the money, they don't do me any harm, and I did notice the car feel smoother and more happy to rev cleanly.
I didn't do empirical testing but Bob did say some time ago that he was able to get more ignition.
With that in mind I fitted a set to my 22B after having bought some for my other impreza.
That doesn't mean I won't run with NF too (as I do), it just gives me more peace of mind.
I am with bob on this.
For the sake of the money, they don't do me any harm, and I did notice the car feel smoother and more happy to rev cleanly.
I didn't do empirical testing but Bob did say some time ago that he was able to get more ignition.
With that in mind I fitted a set to my 22B after having bought some for my other impreza.
That doesn't mean I won't run with NF too (as I do), it just gives me more peace of mind.
16 January 2004, 12:34 PM
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Hi David 
- I promise I'm not stalking you.
I appreciate you cannot say whether they are fitted or not, but I'd like to know for definite all the same , and looking in the petrol tank seems the best way 
Cheers,
Nick.
- I promise I'm not stalking you.I appreciate you cannot say whether they are fitted or not, but I'd like to know for definite all the same
, and looking in the petrol tank seems the best way Cheers,
Nick.
16 January 2004, 12:41 PM
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Nick - seems sensible to me. I don't actually know so I am interested too. Some time back a guy with a P1 wanted to purchase a couple of units and I did say that they were probably already there. He checked and e-mailed me to confirm that was the case. David.
