cryptwalk

I have just been in the fastest car, a friend of mine just got his 94 wrx back from R.C development's and boy is it quick!!!
My question is: is this sort of power reliable on a scooby???
This is what he's just had done:
HKS front mounted intercooler, hks bov, samko hoses, blitz hybred turbo, apexi avcr and boost controller. He can change the amount of boost at the press of a button!!
I was totally impressed with it he had the boost setting on normal and it felt quick but about the same as mine, then he moved it up 1 setting and it got a bit quicker then he put it to top setting 1.2 bar and the car just went big time scary!!! The fellow at rc development's said it should run 350-380 bhp reliable!! Has anyone else had this sort off power without having to change the piston's etc???? Anyway i was So impressed with it i want more boost!!! See the feature in a well known mag soon reg K3 WRC.
Other mod's include:
Full leather re trim in black/blue with wrx embroidery, p1 rear spoiler, hks hiper muffler, peal silver/gold flip paint, flushed off boot, colour coded skirt's, 18 inch radius r3's i think!! twin headlight conversion, p1 front spliter,2 phonix gold amp's,3 jl audio sub's diomand audio speaker's in front, kenwood mask 6 disc changer, leda fully adjustable susspenson and massive brembo brake's plus the above engine mod's.
Is this the quickest impreza about????

IWatkins

1.2 bar does not = 350-380bhp

If it was a genuine 380bhp (or even 350bhp) then those standard pistons are going to last not very long at all.

Take 100bhp off you subject line and i would suggest that would be closer.

Cheers

Ian

Mike@PD

I have run modified race cars upto 630 bhp
(2 litre BDT Evolution Fords) in competition and what you have to remember is that the engine is just a small part of the equasion. Clutch, gearbox, driveshafts, brakes and a whole lot more, all start to give up the ghost when you significantly increase power outputs.

With these kinds of power outputs, belive me, the bang will eventually come and the bill will be high!

Good fun in the meantime though............

cryptwalk

Well the bhp may be wrong but i can tell you 1 thing it felt blooby quick!!!!
Isn,t a uprated exhaust supposed to give you anything in the region of 10 to 30 bhp???
A blitz filter 5 to 10???
a intercooler 30 bhp???
A blitz hybred turbo ???
Apexi's fuel/vacuum .. boost controller???
Surely all these thing's must add to the bhp figure?? it is standerd 260!
I don't know i don't claim to know alot about these thing's but the guy's at rc development's do and that is the figure they gave him. I cannot see the engine living long
without uprated piston's either and i think he know's that too. We will see!!!! i'll keep you posted!!

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by IWatkins:
<B>1.2 bar does not = 350-380bhp

If it was a genuine 380bhp (or even 350bhp) then those standard pistons are going to last not very long at all.

Take 100bhp off you subject line and i would suggest that would be closer.
[/quote]

Nito runs an HKS turbo, HKS FMIC, HKS Dump Valve, HKS exhaust, HKS EVC and a standard UK ECU. The EVC has been set to run 1.18bar, and yet his car made 326bhp!

OK so from the sounds of things, it may be closer to 300-330bhp.

I'm sure Nito can shine more light on this, and correct me if I'm wrong!

Andy

harj

Yes but Andy were talking about Real Rolling Road figures (Let the flames ignite) LOL

I had over 350BHP on my old scoob with unichip but who's figures am I to believe, NEVER NEVER NEVER beleive BHP readings!!!!

Always look at Power at the Wheels as thats the true power or the closest comparision to the BHP!

NITO

Yes Harj,

but where was your wrx RR'd at 350bhp. Power Engineering are pretty well regarded for RR days, hence why there is a whole page dedicated to their rolling road results on the Dynomite scoobies site. Regardless of what people may say about them, at least they are extremely professional about their approach and don't have the scoobies climbing out of the rollers with groups of blokes trying to keep the car on like I've seen at some places, and it wasn't them that burnt out the rear diff on my old scoob on the rollers!

With regards to the PAW figure, I only glanced at this while mine was being RR'd and it was over 220 and still climbing when I stopped looking. Without getting into a debate, PE regularly clock std cars (escort cosworths etc) at pretty much their quoted output. It's only the Subarus where many std cars make 225ish instead of the quoted 208bhp. Personally I think it's perfectly plausible that a std scoob makes this power. So it's up to you if you think the std car only has 208bhp!

Is it a coincidence too that both mine and Andy's car made pretty much identical results when running the same spec..exhaust/downpipe/induction and evc running 1.18bar on completely different days. I have no problem keeping up with P1's STi RA's (even with the shorter gearing) and other cars fitted with unichips/links whatever. Frankly I don't particularly care too much about the figures, all the correct hardware is in place on my car and it's running very reliably. With an ECU change I'm sure the torque figure could be brought right up on my car as well as gaining more bhp!

To answer your question cryptwalk, I think 380 and even 350 is a touch optimistic but it wouldn't surprise me if he was running around the 330bhp mark. I don't think he'll have reliability problems running at 1.2bar assuming of course that the avcr has been setup properly.

generally 1.2bar should equate to anything between 265-286ish bhp depending on weather and assuming some exhaust/induction mods. With a bigger hybrid turbo the same 1.2bar will equate to more bhp and torque particularly when used with an fmic depending on the turbo used of course. The two together (assuming they are decent)should give you at least a 40+bhp increase.

As for the pistons..upto 1.2bar they should be fine all day long, particularly with a decent boost controller which doesn't allow huge spikes of overboost! My car has run just under 1.2bar for over 50k miles without problems, I use SUL but no octane booster.

If you want more info have a look at the dyno page at the top of the bbs page!

Nito

Grumpy

Harj,

The problem with PATW figures, is that they are just as unreliabe. Compare your PS figures, to what you got at PTS !!!!

380cc injectors will be max'ing out at circa 300bhp, and at 380bhp, the clutch would be slipping, and the gearbox would be in a little pile somewhere.

However, if the car is producing anywhere near 380bhp, I'd expect the rods to last a tad longer than the first tank of fuel used in anger.

Stef

Nito.
One thing can be said about the roling road figures at PE, and that is that they are consistent.
I don't for a minute believe that CK1 was running 267bhp with just exhaust and filter mods, but at least when you go back there with new mods the figures seem to reflect that fact. I am looking forward to going back there to see what difference the PPP has made.
I have always considered the rollers at PTS to be the most accurate on my car (235bhp & 234lb/ft before PPP) but it was here that Harj got his silly results.
As I said, I'd rather have consistently high figures than completely inconsistent ones, such as PTS and PS.

Stef.

NITO

I agree Stef,

Std uk cars can vary considerably though. Even with just exhaust and filter mods your car was probably still running 1.05-1.1bar, (in which case it may well have made that power, especially on a cold day) if it was colder possibly more, did you have a boost gauge installed at the time? Hence so many uk cars (particularly MY98's) had overboosting problems. Mine tried to hit 1.35bar as std with exhaust and filter which is why I went the boost controller route in the first place!

Nito

Peter Johnson

I am in RC Developments practically everyweek and yes that car was mint, the leather was spectactular.

As for the bloke at RC hes called Clive and if any knows what he's doing its him. Im takin my scoobs there later this week so clive if ur reading this give us a discount hey!!

Peter Johnson

I am in RC Developments practically everyweek and yes that car was mint, the leather was spectactular.

As for the bloke at RC hes called Clive and if any knows what he's doing its him. Im takin my scoobs there later this week so clive if ur reading this give us a discount hey!!

Biffo

380 BHP......Must have a Cosworth engine in it then
Nuff Said
Uncle Biff

druddle

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Biffo:
<B>380 BHP......Must have a Cosworth engine in it then
Nuff Said
Uncle Biff[/quote]

a cossie engine running low boost i take it ?

cryptwalk

If anyone is off to oulton park track day on wednesday you will see the car in action.
That's provided he's sorted the overheating problem out by then! He apparently need's a high pressure water bottle cap as it's pressurising the water and pushing it up to where you put the water in.
Yes the car is spectacular but it should be as he said it stand's him at about 28,000!!!
The guy's at rc certainly do appear to know what they are doing, and this is where i will be taking mine in the future.

Adam M

Nito,

just a quick point.

You say a car running 1.2 Bar will last all day, but what you dont mention is charge density.

The incylinder pressure is not just related to boost levels but also to air/fuel charge density which as you know increases as temperature decreases.

With you hyper efficient turbo (at the boost you run anyway) and your front mount intercooler, the pressure on your block, piston, conrods, bearings etc. is not the same as any other impreza running 1.2 bar, but significantly higher, so dont assume reliability, for goodness sake.

BTW. Get yourself an ecu

NITO

Hi Adam,

I was referring to a car with a normal i/c and std turbo. Under 1.2bar isn't a problem. I ran mine with the diddly turbocharger and standard intercooler for 50,000 miles without a problem at 1.18bar including some trackdays.

Although thanks, I should say that I'm referring to the later cars 97&gt; where the ecu fuel cut is at 1.25ish bar anyway. Earlier cars upto 96 have the fuel cut nearer 1 bar and I'm not saying its safe to run these at 1.2bar.

Nito

pat

Hi All!

380 BHP out of a 94 WRX without any alterations to the fuel system. Impossible. Simple as that, no ifs no buts, it's just not possible.

As for how much these engines will take, that's an interesting question It seems that as long as you're sensible the answer is "a lot". On standard internals a good 350BHP should be possible (once the fuelling and ignition timing has been addressed). Having seen more STi engines in bits than I care to remember, one thing has stuck in my mind... they *DO NOT* (unless explicitly ordered at the time of purchase) have forged pistons, they have just the same pistons as other cars, and there ARE people getting a reliable 340-350 BHP out of them... go figure. Of course the cam profiles ARE different on STis (version III arguably the best of the lot, worth about 15kW on their own) so it will be more difficult to get 350 out of "lesser" cars...

Another point worth noting is that our Australian friends are routinely getting over 300 BHP out of the "UK Spec" engines, and doing so reliably. But then when you can just go and buy a drum of methylbenzene to shove the RON over 100 it is a bit easier (if a little carcinogenic, LOL).

Thus far I know of two UK cars which have broken 300BHP on PE's rollers, NITO's which gave 326 BHP at 1.18 bar with hybrid turbo and FMIC, and mine which made 301 BHP running 1.1 bar and original TMIC suffering horrendous charge temperature problems... this was before the introduction of an equal length stainless steel tubular manifold and an exhaust system capable of extracting enough gas for just shy of 700BHP... trouble is it doesn't sound like an Impreza anymore Hope to get the FMIC ready soon to see what difference this lot has made

I guess that with all that done I'll run out of excuses not to start on the block... then the boost can be cranked up to 1.7 to 2.0 bar and I'll probably blow the gearbox into the next millennium the first time I floor it

Cheers,

Pat.

Deep Singh

Pat which exhaust are you running?

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

I can't recall what Pat said he was running exhaust-wise, but I was lucky enough to go for a ride in it last week, thanks to much egging-on by the Scoobysport boys The exhaust system combined with the turbo sound just phenomenal! The car ( combined with the driver )goes pretty well like schtink too. Can't describe what the sound is like, but you gat the most amazing noise when changing gear at full warble.....

Cheers,

Nick

nitro

Just letting you know that i have a dyno sheet here for a scooby with 551 hp @ the wheels around 720/750 BHP. If some one can tell me how to post it in here i will.
Yes it does have some mods not sure exactly what and runs around 38 lbs of boost.

RobJenks

Nitro,

Is that Rigolli's Rex ?

RobJenks

Here it is

MorayMackenzie

Pat,

I've finally rummaged through my ex-internals and I have a very wiggly "standard STI" conrod for your ammusment, both halves of it.

Moray

AndyMc

Why does everybody talk about pistons failing when the boost is upped?.From what I've read on here in the past it seems more likely that the big ends are gonna go first.

I also find it strange when people say a tuning company must know their stuff because their mate has just picked up their car and its flying compared to before.Surely its to early to tell, after 50,000 trouble free miles,then yes I would say they know their stuff.

By the way how many of the well known scooby engine modding experts on this board have actually managed to modify a scooby engine with out it blowing up.Not many thats how many.
Leave them standard boys you know it makes sense.

Cryptwalk I bet your mates car won't last six months without blowing up

Flame suit on

firefox

Mine hasnt blown

Moray... 2 for the price of one ?

Pats exhaust is a custom setup.. he isnt running a standard bolt on turbo...hence his system wont be any use to anyone else.

As for big ends failing... yes they do

But so do the rods.. and the pistons.. either the crown failing.. or the ring land letting go

J.

Anders

Pats top mount inter-cooler is from 22B.com

Reliability is important as my 22b had 29,000 hard pressed miles and after 600 miles of the Power Enginering chip it smashed number 3 bearing! (infinity)

Reliability is important!

ric

Nito
Do you run 1.15bar up to the redline?

greetings
ric

NITO

Ric,

I've adjusted the offset so that I'm actually holding 1.18bar although this drops off somewhat as the revs climb although not a great deal.

On the rollers my car actually peaks at 6,500 with the larger turbine and max torque is there too. The fuelling is fine for this level of boost upto the redline, but then mine is a uk so only revs to 7k anyway.

My EGT's tend to stay around the 875 mark when pushing it, although at prolonged high speeds 130+ the EGT will climb to around 925 and over 155mph which equates to over 6000 revs these will climb to around 950 degrees, I certainly wouldn't want them to be any higher! It's prolonged running like this that usually causes engine damage. At 950 degrees I'm not into critical territory but you wouldn't want to hold this sort of speed up for too long as the temps would spiral. Revving to 7k in most gears doesn't cause the egt's to go beyond 875 degrees, it's only in 5th that they will start to rise as the revs and boost are being held and prolonged. Bear in mind that around 930 degrees is the safe maximum. Temps of 1050-1100 are definately into the realms of engine damage. Interesting to note too that these temps don't reduce much at all if I drop the boost down to 0.95 which is pretty much standard boost!

Oh, and I've done 56k miles and lots of high speed runs on the continent

Nito

nitro

RobJenks
yep Rigoli's and the old liberty rs did 479 hp @ the wheels impressive stuff!!!!!