dabiscuit

After reading both the recent posts about accidents involving higher end cars is it not time to introduce different licences for high powered cars similar to bikes?
The thought an 18 year old can get behind the wheel of a gtr or veyron or even an sti is frightening. Especially when they've been learning in a fiesta.

Scooby-Mark

I totally agree and have said the same for years, no matter how high you push the premiums up on cars like you mention someone will always pay it be it good first job while living at home or rich parents etc... The only true way to do it is different category's / entitlements on your license.

Add to that that my mrs past her test about 5 months ago and said a week or two after passing that she had never driven above 50mph, at night or in the rain totally shocked me

But if I insured her she is perfectly legal to drive my 350bhp STI

Graz

Probably would make sense. I'd have thought the insurance (assuming they bother ) would be the limiting factor for most.

I started my driving in a knackered 1.6L Cavalier (remember them) but progressed to a 170bhp BMW E30 325i at the age of 24. Wasn't cheap to insure but back in them days it was supposed to get cheaper when you were 25.

NotFromSomerset

Plenty more young drivers kill themselves in 1 litre corsas. It's more to do with behaviour and attitude of young drivers rather than the cars they can or can't drive.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Indeed.

IMO the driving test should teach basic car control, instead of how vitally important it is that you hold the wheel at ten to two, and feed the wheel through both hands like a tool when going round bends.

But equally it is still not right that someone who has just passed their test can be insured on Daddy's C63 Merc.

Scooby-Mark

I agree, doesn't matter what you are driving if you don't have a clue and have never been above even reasonable driving speeds while learning then have the attitude you are a racing driver when behind the wheel of your little fiesta once you have passed its an accident waiting to happen.

If they are not already the black boxes should be compulsory until 25 even if you are insured on daddy's performance car.

Its not difference than comparing it to your working life, you don't go in at MD level at 19 of fully qualified in your trade, you have to prove yourself and work you way up the ladder, can't see why driving should be any different

dabiscuit

All good points. Maybe we should go to a finish style of driving test

beardo47

The UK test doesn't include skin pan yet does it ? (been a while since I passed). Think it was sweden ? Or switzerland/one of the other nordic countries that has a skid pan as part of the test.

But I agree, restricted license much like on a bike and black box. No going out time restrictions as that's just retarded but they need to monitor their driving for a while.

NotFromSomerset

This is the best option imo. Teach high speed control, skidpan etc etc. You can't stop new drivers going fast or driving like prats but you can teach them what to do if they get into trouble. It won't take a serious accident to calm them down after a brown pants moment

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

IMO, the problem with young drivers nowadays is that they are taught how to pass the test, not actually taught how to drive. Especially with these pass in a week places.

When they pass, they have no road sense whatsoever. They haven't a clue about driving in different weather conditions, etc, etc, etc.

What needs to change is the tuition.

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

In addition, here's a scenario. This happens a lot in the armed forces.

Someone 18 years old started learning to drive yesterday on one of these pass in a week courses. They pass their test on Friday coming.

Next Monday they start Cat C HGV training and pass on the Friday of that week.

The following Monday they start Cat C+E HGV training. The Friday of that week they pass that test.

In 3 weeks, someone who has previously never driven can go from getting the bus everywhere to being behind the wheel of a 40 tonne articulated lorry.

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

The Uk driving test doesnt even do a test on the Motorway or are you learned to drive on the motorway, usually the first time you do go on there behind the wheel of a car is after you have passed your test with no experience at all, and driving all day for a living is usually where I see most of the bad driving!!!

Rick2014

iTrader: (3)

I thought part of the learning was on the motorway now and brought in last summer

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

Nail on the head there mate, you should be learning to drive safe not how to pass the test.

Maybe secondary schools should have a 1 hour lesson a week on safe driving, as the biggest problem lies with young inexperienced drivers behind the wheel who are having accidents, also teach them the highway code at a young age, which will not only help them when learn and pass there test, but also help them understand signs and road markings when there out and about, as I usually see some half wit kids strolling on the roads on a daily bases with out any consideration to road users. Pretty sure these kids think that 40 tonne lorrys bounce of them if there hit, because they sure dont move quick when there crossing the road!!

GH80

I disagree with this point. There are more young drivers killing themselves in Corsa's because there are more young drivers driving Corsa's.
If you gave every young driver an STi I bet there would be more deaths and more carnage on the roads, with accidents happening at higher speeds.

I think it's bad here but must be worse in the states. Reading forums & watching youtube would make you think that our friends across the pond think an STi is a good learner car!

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

Pretty sure provisional license holders are not permitted to use the motorway!!

Could be wrong, as I have not heard anything different!!

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

But in the USA the roads are all straight and wide so much easier to drive, well in my experience it is. But you do find a lot of younger people driving high performance cars, imagine turning upto school in a brand new Impreza STi. I was lucky to turn up with a pair of Nike Air max trainers on my feet at school and some of these 16-17 years olds are driving to school

Yardz

iTrader: (1)

I'm 25 and i passed my test in 2010. Now I learnt to drive in the middle of winter at night after work. In rain sleet snow what ever the weather my instructor insisted that we go out. Taught me a lot about car control in different conditions and what not. He was a total bell end but in that respect I thought it was good that I got taught them skills. The driving test it's self was quiet frankly pathetic 40 mins of nothingness really. Open bonnet, check dipstick, Drive to an estate, reverse around a corner, parrallel park then drive back again. Well done you've passed.

Fast forward 2 years. I worked with a bloke who couldn't park to save his life. Even to the point of where we went down the side of a fe colleagues cars, bloke was a complete tool not an ounce of commen sense reaction times of a snail nor any spacial awareness. One day he shows up jacks his job in and now his a fully qualified driving instructor
Now I don't think the issue is the test here I think the issue is the quailty of instruction available, I've seen countless time driving instructors fail to indicate, run lights, double Park all sorts yet these people are being trusted with people of no driving experiences life's and we wonder why such idiots exsist because there being taught by idiots.

Now I've got an impreza at 25 and I have nothing but 100% respect for it. There's a time an place for giving large and I totally drive within my means. And thought of anything happening to my car makes me sick! I guess that's the difference between and enthusiast and a not racer?

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

My very first car at the age of 18 had 160 bhp, then after a year (at 19) I got an EVO.
If anything, having quick cars early on helped me become a decent driver. I have always driven quickly but not once over stepped the mark (except for hitting a patch of diesel mid way round a roundabout in the EVO. ... that was certainly a bum twitcher moment).
At the very same time I owned the EVO a pal also bought one. He wrote his off within a few weeks almost killing two girls in the back.
I think the difference between him and I was that I have always been a car enthusiast. I bought my cars with my own money and cherished them, the last thing I want is to smash them up.

It's not the cars that are the problem, it's the mind set of the idiot behind the wheel.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

It's not the power of the cars IMO, it's the mentality of the driver.
Most small engine cars can reach 100mph with a long enough run up, and it only takes a 40mph impact to cause a lot of damage/injury.

south_scoob

agree that its not the car is the driver too. aparantly insuring a 1.2 corsa will cost a 17 year old 4grand or somthing stupid to insure these days so i realy dont see how a new driver could afford to get a veyron or a gtr no matter where they work. I had a moped at 16 years old and im possitive it made me a better driver when i took my test at 17 or 18

south_scoob

the problem with having a slow car is it gives you a false sence of security. having a car without enough power to spin the wheels will encourage a new driver to drive more reckless then somthing that scares the s*** out of them every time they go near the throttle

dabiscuit

Being a biker DOES make you a better driver I'm sure of it.

Despite what inspired me to start this thread I think britain has the safest roads in the world, were certainly top 3 usually dicing with norway and finland.

Its shame the driver decided to drive into people and not a car. What would your instincts say to do?

Carnut

My wife wanted to learn how to drive so as a provisional driver we got her car insurance for one of my scoobys and it was cheaper than mine. At the time I had been driving for about 3 years, had 3 years ncb and also had a class one licence that seems to count for nothing.

I do also think that there should be some restrictions on a car licence for the first 3 years or so which are automatically removed so as not to incur more charges at the end of said period.

I would also like to see some sort of bike and truck awareness course as part of the car licence, some car drivers have now idea how very little can be seen from high up in a tractor unit. They should also have it drummed in to their heads about how bad a fully loaded 44ton truck stops relative to a car.

Ive lost track of how many times ive saved the life of a car driver through anticipating their mistakes. The traffic coming to a stop on the motorway way is a good one, as the traffic slows cars start to dive across lanes and for each one that pulls into the path of a truck your taking their braking area away from them.

LuckyWelshchap

3 points:

1. I thought we had a thread here some time ago (or I simply read it somewhere) that Subarus are among the lowest claims per 1000.
   Presumably the reasons are that a) more mature owners drive them; and b) they are far safer due to handling, braking etc.
   (I know that I've avoided nasty accidents because of the manoeuvreability of the car).
2. A standard 'first car' doesn't have any of the above (and 'Corsa drivers' don't so much kill themselves as a) their passengers; and b) the pedestrians they hit.
3. I was taught 'defence driving'. I don't look 10 yards in front but 200, and every ice-cream wagon has a child ready to jump out on me.
   Doesn't slow me down that much (if at all) - but makes me a damn sight quicker when Mr Right has to hit the brake.

I'd say the test is at fault.
Put emphasis on avoiding problems ('did the driver cover the brake when driving in a built-up area with an ice-cream van parked up ahead?' or 'did the driver respond quickly to an event in the distance, such as traffic lights going amber'?).
If the test does that then instructors will teach learners that.

Btw - great thread op

G.Mac

iTrader: (2)

When I was learning to drive my instructor once I had learned the basics kept me driving on many B roads at 60 to try teach me driving at a reasonable pace, he also taught me to use my gears unlike now where you are not supposed to use your gears whilst slowing down.

Today's test is all about passing the test and not teaching you life skills so to speak, I haven't been driving that long, only since 98, but the standard of driving from when I passed my test till now is shocking, they are supposed to be making the tests harder but it seems that folk have no clue once they pass their test and are a menace on the road. The standard of driving young and old these days is abysmal

I passed my test in 1998 and my first car driving on my own was my old dears 1.6 Astra which at the time was reasonably nippy, well seemed that way. The car was supposed to be mine as the folks had got a new car but the old man sold it when I was away at sea, as I never paid for it I couldn't complain. I then got a 1L Renault 5 which a wrote off after a tyre blew out whilst going round a corner and replaced that with a 1.4 Clio (hated that car)

I was 23 when I got rid of the Clio (happiest day of my driving life) and got a Peugeot 205 GTI, this was a pile of crap and kept that for 6 months till I got my fist Pem Job after qualifying , I then got an RX8 230 kept that for 6 months then got my current 2005 STI when I was still 24

Even though I was lucky enough to have a couple of decent cars at a relatively young age the biggest improvement in my driving was when I sat my bike test when I was 23 because after driving a bike you are much more aware of what is going on around you and I would say made me a far safer driver.

I would say the idea of a restricted license is a good thing and would also encourage people to pass their bike test as I believe this would make people far safer on the road as they would be far more aware of what is going on around them

Graeme

Scooby-Mark

I seem to recall when I worked I Sweden that the lads I worked with said the test was very intense including as you say a skid pan and tests under certain driving conditions before you are allowed on the road.

As other points on here have said in the UK you can pass your test which with the luck of the draw depending on where you live and time of the year you can only experience some road conditions but hen as soon as you have that certificate your allowed in anything driving anywhere

I was amazed by how little its changed since I passed when my mrs passed earlier this year, she was even advised by her instructor which test centre to book for an "easier" test, madness IMO, How does that help any road user or pedestrian ??

Scooby-Mark

I think they spoke about it, There is something called pass plus which is none compulsory extended lessons on the motorway but even then its not a yes or no as to if you are allowed on them and you can go onto a motorway once you have the full license.

It was like the introduction of "P" plates, they were going to be compulsory then they became optional and of course who at 17, 18, 19 etc... is going to want to have those if you are now trying to look "cool" at meets and gatherings.

dabiscuit

You are not allowed to drive on a motorway on a provisional with or without an experienced driver.

NotFromSomerset

I did pass plus for the purpose for lowering my insurance. It's basically just a tick sheet that you do to say you've driven in the dark, on motorways and on b roads iirc. Signed off by driving instructor after your test. Bit of a joke really.

I find the idea that motorway driving isn't in the test absolutely baffling. And they wonder why people can't do basic things like use the correct lanes.

I'm only 22 but having owned a few powerful cars with 4wd, fwd and rwd I feel a much better driver for it. Don't think the power of the car really comes into it at all