Dyney

Well after reading all the recent project threads I thought it about time I got mine up.

The car is a MY97 UK turbo (well it was when I bought it 4 years ago).
It had a few mods over the years. Took me all of a few months to fully de-cat it with the 2.5” H&S/Scoobysport system. The longer standing members may remember they supplied 2 backboxes, a normal and a loud one. Guess witch one I ended up with J
An HKS Induction kit soon followed and then the Dawes boost controller (set at 1.1 Bar). The car was rolling roaded at PE some time ago and achieved 274BHP/253lbft

Well time and mileage has taken its toll on my poor Scooby. Well it’s now done 114k miles and the engine has always had a little piston slap when cold.
It was time to find a newer engine

The first 2.5 STI short block group buy came along at just the right time. I had already been speaking to Mark at Lateral performance about these and it did seem the sensible way forward.
While waiting for the block to arrive I sourced a pair of STI3 heads and a TD05.
The turbo went away for conversion and I ordered all the necessary parts and upgrades.

At this point some lad decided to drive into the side of the car, so while it was away being repaired I had the new front bumper, P1 splitter and P1 light surrounds fitted along with a full re-spray in the std 406 silver. I managed to get Derek at ETS racing to supply one of his new huge IC bonnet scoops and this was dropped off at the body shop with the 22b vents and a 99/00 spec grill.

I bolted the heads on an built up as much of the engine as I could from parts laying around until I could get the car back and remove the old lump.

This all took along time, but once I had the car back it took a week to pull the old engine, salvage the rest of the parts and fit the 2.5 all with the help of Steve (ScoobyDuck). Thanks mate!

The engine was in, but I was still waiting on the Gruppe s headers to arrive, which they did days before Pat was due to map the Link ECU. Luckily I had already ordered the wrap from yet another group buy (anyone see a pattern here?) J
I fitted the MY02 WRX intercooler I had bought and modified prior to thoughts of a 2.5 but never got round to installing it. It dropped straight in first time

Pat mapped the ECU for running in with no boost and only 4k revs. Not as bad as it sounds when you have as much low down torque as the 2.5
After a quite re-map with my instructions to keep it conservative and hold the boost to 1 Bar, I was away. Had a little misfire on high boost but Pat was happy for me to go away and solve that myself with the new leads I had promised the car and not got round to L

Well it’s now done 4k miles total and I couldn’t be happier. It pulls from low down and keeps pulling until I run out of ***** (remember I put it together)
I’m still on the original (114k miles) 5-speed gearbox and it wasn’t in the best of health before the 2.5 went in but seems to be holding up for the moment.

Next: Well I suppose it’s going to be a 6-speed box and a FMIC, but a rolling road day is booked so we will see what figures it’s pushing and then decide

Well here’s the pics!

Bodywork (Before)


(After)



Strip




Build







IC fitted

Headers wrapped



For those thinking of building a 2.5 using a pre 97 car beware the water cross pipe will need the following mod. I had an early pipe modified then decided to use the later one off the old engine. So I have this for sale if anyone needs it J






PS. No I haven’t added up the cost yet!!!!

RON

Sadly I see no pics, sounds very interesting, you still using the standard turbo too??

Dyney

I hate Fotopic!! Now hosted on Photobucket


Std turbo!! No

Bats-Wrx

iTrader: (1)

Is it just the TD05 FE or the 20G??

Dyney

I'd have to ask Mark at Lateral exactly what it is, but it is TD05/6 based, Yes

911

So this 2.5 is straight out of the box, just as Subaru made it, no fancy rods/pistons etc?
Great stuff Dyney, I can see a vision of next Xmas clearing in the distance.......

Oh NO!
Looking forward to the RR results, especially the torque.

911

Dyney

I thought it might interest you!!

Very simalar spec to your 2.0 (550 injectors, gruppe s headers and STI 3 heads)

Yep, Std EJ257 short engine. I was tempted by the pistons, but we'll see how this goes first

AndrewC

Cool thread, I keep wondering what to do when I blow my UK 2.0. I had convinced myself to go with a 2.2 CDB after some of the 2.5 problems that have come to light, but then again the torque of the 2.5 is very appealing and seems good for 400/400 long term.

Any chance you could list the new parts you used besides the block? eg. oil pump, oil cooler etc.

Andrew...

StickyMicky

would a standerd td05fe be ok with the 2.5 lump? or is it a little under powered?

im asuming my 440 injectors would be no good?

Micky....
also planning what to do when his 2.0 blows up

Dyney

From Subaru I bought all new headbolts, water pump, oil cooler and cam belt tensioner.
I got an RCM oil pump from Mark as well as the head gaskets.
All new seals and gaskets fitted though I used some from the kit I bought in the GB and some new from Subaru.


I'm no expert I have only gone on the recomendations and advice of those I trust
I expect a 2.5 will run OK on 440's but would top out pretty easily
Again the TD05 will work fine but I suspect you wouldn't get the most from the engine.

Dyney

Spec list.

US STI 2.5 short engine (std rods & pistons)
STI 3 heads and cams with under bucket shims
TD05/6 based turbo
Link ECU (6 row)
MY02 WRX IC (modded to fit)
STI grade 7 plugs (soon to be replaced)
K1 racing HT leads
550cc injectors
Parallel fuel rail mod
SX fuel reg (running 3 Bar)
Walbro pump
HKS induction (MAF removed)
K&N breather filter on ISCV
Prodrive turbo inlet pipe
Samco IC and coolent hoses
Gruppe s headers (wrapped and painted)
Helix flexi up pipe
H&S 3"-2.5" down pipe
Unknown Jap exhaust (2.5" opening out to 3.5" into the back box with a 4.5" angled exit tail pipe)
Helix breather catch can

Can't think of anything else at the moment

Markus

Iain,
Nice little write up for nice car

PICKLE

Whats the price for a Short 2.5 engine these days?? Where do I get one (NEW)(I have all the other parts needed )

Would I just be able to swap everything over from my STI5 engine?

As the others have said, just thinking of the future/worst case scenario!

simbo

looks like another group buy is needed as there seems to be a lot of interest in the 2.5 us block again

cheers david

Bats-Wrx

iTrader: (1)

Pickle yeah everything will swap over from your STI 5 just need to get the right thickness of headgasket.

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Good you see you've put it all together. I must start mine soon.

Thanks for the tip about the hard water pipe. I see you've blocked your's off. Is it just an oil breather?

What gasket did you use with STi heads?

If anybody wants a price I can give you an idea from the two previous GB's. It would nice if the dollar went up even further.

Mark A

PICKLE

oh dear,

I must resist, I must, I must!

Bats-Wrx

iTrader: (1)

Mark i think its just the second crank case breather that has been blocked off in Dyneys photo.

Dyney

IT is the extra Crank case breather that I have blocked

Look closely at the plug in it
Had a mate knock up the plug and he got carried away and engraved it with "Subaru"


I think the block was just over £1k but this depends on the exchange rate.
There are plenty of UK suppliers for these now. Lateral were one of the first but most of the Subaru tuners can get them for you

I used 1.4mm head gaskets (IIRC) with the STI 3 heads (on advice from Mark)

Dyney

As has been stated on most of the recent 2.5 swap threads.
Fitting a 2.5 can get very expensive!!!!

If you intend to fit it with the mods you have already and then upgrade the rest later, fine.
If you want to fit a big turbo, headers and uprate the fueling and breathing all at the same time, be prepared for some big bills!

Rough estimate on my costs run to over £4.5k and I did all the work myself
That is just for the block, heads, headers, turbo and related upgrades. Not the ECU, mapping, IC, de-cat, etc.

If you are thinking about it please work out the costs and stick to it

dnb

About 18 months ago, you sat in a hotel on the IOW saying you wouldn't go for the 2.5...

Glad you finally came to your senses!
Looking good so far.

ScoobyDuck

iTrader: (1)

and i STILL havent been in it now its running right & mapped


my turn next ... if i ever, ever get to it ...

well done mate, nice write up

Steve

ScoobyDuck

iTrader: (1)

one thing i would say too, is that Iain did A LOT of planning for this. A LOT of investigating and looking /asking around. when he came to actually do the conversion it all went fairly smoothly. there were of course small problems (injector O-rings Iain ) but if your gona do it and you dont want your car off the road for 3 months, make sure you have thought and doubly thought of everything !!
Steve

StickyMicky

when you say that the 440`s would "top out"
do you mean i couldnt push the power up or that they would be no good for genral driving about?

i always thought the 440`s were ok for about 350bhp?
the reason i ask is for the reason you mention, cost!

i know people that can supply and fit the block, but if i can save more money by useing existing bits then its better allround

i wonder how the 97/phase1.5 heads would fare in all this (im asuming there the same as the v3sti ones you have?)

Bats-Wrx

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure you could keep your 440's as long as you don't succeed there limits.

iirc peccy done a 2.5 conversion and didn't change many stock componets on his STI V6.

Dyney

dnb,
At that time I had a 2l CDB waiting for me to prep it and source pistons,rods and a crank. After speaking to Mark I decided it was going to be too expensive and changed my mind

Steve,
I haven't forgoten
I was off to work after the meet so didn't have time to warm it up and take you for a run, sorry.
Next time your up we must go out for a bit of Noble baiting


Steve is quite right I spent a good 6 months thinking/reading on here about what I needed to do and how. I spoke to a few experienced Subaru people and and then thought some more.
I picked up the block in March and the engine was first fired up in October.
As I was without the car for quite a while all I could do was research!!



I think (don't quote me) that you would run out of fuel.
They will be fine for running in and would be OK in the final set up, but they will probably not supply enough fuel for the 2.5 to run to it's full potential.

550's can be had for £200-300 If you fit stick with 440's and fine they limit the power when you map it what is the cost of then going and buying them and then re-mapping?

I would speak to your mapper (if they have 2.5 experience) and see what they suggest

The MY97/phase 1.5 heads will be the same casting but the STI cams are higher lift and longer duration. The STI's have under bucket shims that my UK heads didn't have, so allow a higher rev limit should I need it Not sure what the MY97 WRX's have.

StickyMicky

would a td05fe supply enough air to max out a set of 440`s on a 2.5 engine? (i belive the way turbos work is slightly diffrent on the 2.5)

AndrewC

IMHO if you stick with the TD05-16G then the 440s will be at their upper limit but should be OK, it doesn't really matter what capacity the engine is, what matters is how much air the system as a whole can flow, in this case the turbo will be the limiting factor.

A 2.5 with a TD05-16G should give a very quick, lag free road car.

Andrew...

dowser

When running my 440's at stock fuel pressure on my phase 2 ej20 with fe td05, I was limited to 1.15 bar at the redline with an AFR of ~11:1 and IDC's at 98.7%

I'm now on an 05/06 with 4 bar static fuel pressure for the 440's. IDC's are now at around 97% with ~1.25 bar at the redline (can't lower boost due to poorly ported wastegate....by me ). 550's will go in with ej25 to get the IDC's down a bit.

I'd suggest you'll need a wastegate capable of dropping boost to around 1 bar at the redline with an 05 and ej25. Consider raising fuel pressure for a little extra headroom.

Richard

Dyney

Thank you Andrew that's what I was trying to say

I suspect a 2.5 with std TD05 and 440's will perform OK but as stated above the duty cycle will be pretty high and may limit you in the long run.

I had 380's in the UK 2 litre so 550's were the obvious choice when upgrading. Add the bigger turbo and they were essential