Merc CL500
19 June 2013, 10:18 AM
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Merc CL500
Ladies and Gents - time to sell my T25 and get something more in keeping with my age.
What are the key watch-outs with these cars?
What are the key watch-outs with these cars?
Last edited by Martin2005; 19 June 2013 at 03:45 PM.
19 June 2013, 11:04 AM
#2
Why not cl55 amg?
some have black centre console instead wood
i would take sl55 but if you need 4 seater than cl55
to heavy, **** handling on bends when wet, almost impossible to control it needs a lot of free space than,i dont wish you to ever notice that.
to look on;rust and suspension
some have black centre console instead wood
i would take sl55 but if you need 4 seater than cl55
to heavy, **** handling on bends when wet, almost impossible to control it needs a lot of free space than,i dont wish you to ever notice that.
to look on;rust and suspension
19 June 2013, 03:11 PM
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Right then I can actually help you out here.
Firstly corrosion (it's not rust as they are aluminium). Rear wheel arches are prone to corrosion, check them very carefully especially where back bumper meets the rear quarter panel. Secondly look really really carefully where the C pillar meets the rear quarter panel. This was a known weak point. Any signs of bubbling walk away as the job can cost £6K to fix. It occurs where the aluminum meets a steel chassis member. Some have it, some don't .. some were fixed under warranty but no chance of that at 10 years old.
Secondly ABC suspension. Some cars were converted to standard suspension but most will be running the uber sophisticated ABC which stands for active body control. It's an excellent system but if it goes wrong it can cost a fortune. A pump is £800 and each strut is £1K. If it fails and the dashboard will tell you in bright red... do not drive it as usually the pump fails and then people carry on driving and pump the crap in the pump round the whole system wrecking all 4 shocks... total bill £6K including fitting of new parts.
You can check the ABC by starting the car and making sure no ABC warning comes up.... then raise and lower the car by the raise/lower button and make sure it sits level in all three heaight settings. Also flick throught he trip computer menu and check to see if any ABC malfunctions are in the memory.
Outside of that check interiror door switch trims and door wring gators ... these cars have an issue if the door is repeatedly opened to the maximum as the gator can split and chafe the wires. Then when some muppet tries to fix it they break all the lugs off the door switch (£400 for a new part) so check all the trims on the doors are solid.
Make sure it has a full history... these engiens and gearboxes are fantastic but they must be serviced.
Get a good look at the alloys on the inside. Make sure there are no cracks, bends or worse.. welds. These alloys are quite soft and the car is quite heavy so they are prone to damage on potholes. Sadly this isn't the world of Subaru and a replacement will cost you £600.
Finally check the drive on bends especially uphill. If it is at all jerky or there is some vibration you may need a new rear gearbox mount (£400 inc. labour) or worse still a new torque converter (£1.5K plus fitting), but this is unlikely on the 500 as it is more the problem with 55s.
Aside from that check all the usual bits you would check when buying a car.
Awesome cars... I had a CL55... lovely car
One last thing.... maintenance bills at Merc are huge... find a good specialist!
Firstly corrosion (it's not rust as they are aluminium). Rear wheel arches are prone to corrosion, check them very carefully especially where back bumper meets the rear quarter panel. Secondly look really really carefully where the C pillar meets the rear quarter panel. This was a known weak point. Any signs of bubbling walk away as the job can cost £6K to fix. It occurs where the aluminum meets a steel chassis member. Some have it, some don't .. some were fixed under warranty but no chance of that at 10 years old.
Secondly ABC suspension. Some cars were converted to standard suspension but most will be running the uber sophisticated ABC which stands for active body control. It's an excellent system but if it goes wrong it can cost a fortune. A pump is £800 and each strut is £1K. If it fails and the dashboard will tell you in bright red... do not drive it as usually the pump fails and then people carry on driving and pump the crap in the pump round the whole system wrecking all 4 shocks... total bill £6K including fitting of new parts.
You can check the ABC by starting the car and making sure no ABC warning comes up.... then raise and lower the car by the raise/lower button and make sure it sits level in all three heaight settings. Also flick throught he trip computer menu and check to see if any ABC malfunctions are in the memory.
Outside of that check interiror door switch trims and door wring gators ... these cars have an issue if the door is repeatedly opened to the maximum as the gator can split and chafe the wires. Then when some muppet tries to fix it they break all the lugs off the door switch (£400 for a new part) so check all the trims on the doors are solid.
Make sure it has a full history... these engiens and gearboxes are fantastic but they must be serviced.
Get a good look at the alloys on the inside. Make sure there are no cracks, bends or worse.. welds. These alloys are quite soft and the car is quite heavy so they are prone to damage on potholes. Sadly this isn't the world of Subaru and a replacement will cost you £600.
Finally check the drive on bends especially uphill. If it is at all jerky or there is some vibration you may need a new rear gearbox mount (£400 inc. labour) or worse still a new torque converter (£1.5K plus fitting), but this is unlikely on the 500 as it is more the problem with 55s.
Aside from that check all the usual bits you would check when buying a car.
Awesome cars... I had a CL55... lovely car
One last thing.... maintenance bills at Merc are huge... find a good specialist!
Last edited by f1_fan; 19 June 2013 at 03:15 PM.
19 June 2013, 03:43 PM
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Right then I can actually help you out here.
Firstly corrosion (it's not rust as they are aluminium). Rear wheel arches are prone to corrosion, check them very carefully especially where back bumper meets the rear quarter panel. Secondly look really really carefully where the C pillar meets the rear quarter panel. This was a known weak point. Any signs of bubbling walk away as the job can cost £6K to fix. It occurs where the aluminum meets a steel chassis member. Some have it, some don't .. some were fixed under warranty but no chance of that at 10 years old.
Secondly ABC suspension. Some cars were converted to standard suspension but most will be running the uber sophisticated ABC which stands for active body control. It's an excellent system but if it goes wrong it can cost a fortune. A pump is £800 and each strut is £1K. If it fails and the dashboard will tell you in bright red... do not drive it as usually the pump fails and then people carry on driving and pump the crap in the pump round the whole system wrecking all 4 shocks... total bill £6K including fitting of new parts.
You can check the ABC by starting the car and making sure no ABC warning comes up.... then raise and lower the car by the raise/lower button and make sure it sits level in all three heaight settings. Also flick throught he trip computer menu and check to see if any ABC malfunctions are in the memory.
Outside of that check interiror door switch trims and door wring gators ... these cars have an issue if the door is repeatedly opened to the maximum as the gator can split and chafe the wires. Then when some muppet tries to fix it they break all the lugs off the door switch (£400 for a new part) so check all the trims on the doors are solid.
Make sure it has a full history... these engiens and gearboxes are fantastic but they must be serviced.
Get a good look at the alloys on the inside. Make sure there are no cracks, bends or worse.. welds. These alloys are quite soft and the car is quite heavy so they are prone to damage on potholes. Sadly this isn't the world of Subaru and a replacement will cost you £600.
Finally check the drive on bends especially uphill. If it is at all jerky or there is some vibration you may need a new rear gearbox mount (£400 inc. labour) or worse still a new torque converter (£1.5K plus fitting), but this is unlikely on the 500 as it is more the problem with 55s.
Aside from that check all the usual bits you would check when buying a car.
Awesome cars... I had a CL55... lovely car
One last thing.... maintenance bills at Merc are huge... find a good specialist!
Firstly corrosion (it's not rust as they are aluminium). Rear wheel arches are prone to corrosion, check them very carefully especially where back bumper meets the rear quarter panel. Secondly look really really carefully where the C pillar meets the rear quarter panel. This was a known weak point. Any signs of bubbling walk away as the job can cost £6K to fix. It occurs where the aluminum meets a steel chassis member. Some have it, some don't .. some were fixed under warranty but no chance of that at 10 years old.
Secondly ABC suspension. Some cars were converted to standard suspension but most will be running the uber sophisticated ABC which stands for active body control. It's an excellent system but if it goes wrong it can cost a fortune. A pump is £800 and each strut is £1K. If it fails and the dashboard will tell you in bright red... do not drive it as usually the pump fails and then people carry on driving and pump the crap in the pump round the whole system wrecking all 4 shocks... total bill £6K including fitting of new parts.
You can check the ABC by starting the car and making sure no ABC warning comes up.... then raise and lower the car by the raise/lower button and make sure it sits level in all three heaight settings. Also flick throught he trip computer menu and check to see if any ABC malfunctions are in the memory.
Outside of that check interiror door switch trims and door wring gators ... these cars have an issue if the door is repeatedly opened to the maximum as the gator can split and chafe the wires. Then when some muppet tries to fix it they break all the lugs off the door switch (£400 for a new part) so check all the trims on the doors are solid.
Make sure it has a full history... these engiens and gearboxes are fantastic but they must be serviced.
Get a good look at the alloys on the inside. Make sure there are no cracks, bends or worse.. welds. These alloys are quite soft and the car is quite heavy so they are prone to damage on potholes. Sadly this isn't the world of Subaru and a replacement will cost you £600.
Finally check the drive on bends especially uphill. If it is at all jerky or there is some vibration you may need a new rear gearbox mount (£400 inc. labour) or worse still a new torque converter (£1.5K plus fitting), but this is unlikely on the 500 as it is more the problem with 55s.
Aside from that check all the usual bits you would check when buying a car.
Awesome cars... I had a CL55... lovely car
One last thing.... maintenance bills at Merc are huge... find a good specialist!
Cheers
The corrosion issue is one I'm well aware of. This is why I'm looking for a 03 onwards as I believe the issue was sorted then (I may be wrong though). Be interesting to know if Mercedes are honouring their 30year rust/corrosion warranty.
ABC issue is a big one for me, I really don't need any massive bills. I'm guessing there is no way of testing this for potential future problems?
I'd love the AMG but an 03 will be the Kompressor version and probably out of my budget
19 June 2013, 04:02 PM
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I think 2003s were better than previous, but the issue can still be there even on 2008 Mercs. That said it's a10 yo car... just check it and if it's right now it should be fine as long as you keep on top of it Just remember these cars cost £70K new..... they come with the running costs of that sort of car! They are awesome though.
19 June 2013, 04:09 PM
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No they're not and it's a huge bone of contention with Mercedes owners. I think 2003s were better than previous, but the issue can still be there even on 2008 Mercs. That said it's a10 yo car... just check it and if it's right now it should be fine as long as you keep on top of it
No but taking note of what the display is telling you and getting the fluid changed regualarly is the key. If you get an amber warning use the car's lower/raise button and get rid of it before moving off. If you get a red error get the car looked at straight away.... it can be something as trivial as a pipe.... it's the driving it with the error on that damages it! I don't think the horror stories are all that common.... like anything you only hear about the bad ones!
The CL500 will waft along at a fair old lick and is more comfortable than the AMG.... it's no poor relation!
Just remember these cars cost £70K new..... they come with the running costs of that sort of car! They are awesome though.
I think 2003s were better than previous, but the issue can still be there even on 2008 Mercs. That said it's a10 yo car... just check it and if it's right now it should be fine as long as you keep on top of it No but taking note of what the display is telling you and getting the fluid changed regualarly is the key. If you get an amber warning use the car's lower/raise button and get rid of it before moving off. If you get a red error get the car looked at straight away.... it can be something as trivial as a pipe.... it's the driving it with the error on that damages it! I don't think the horror stories are all that common.... like anything you only hear about the bad ones!
The CL500 will waft along at a fair old lick and is more comfortable than the AMG.... it's no poor relation!
Just remember these cars cost £70K new..... they come with the running costs of that sort of car! They are awesome though.
Yes I'm aware of running costs. That said assuming nothing major goes wrong, I can't imagine that it's that much more expensive to run that my T25.
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19 June 2013, 07:22 PM
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19 June 2013, 08:14 PM
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Re the uppy downy suspension (pardon my technical speak)
I have not had a merc so equipped, but have had several Range Rovers and Land-cruisers with the various flavours of uppy downy suspension
And the important point is that it should go up and down smartly, it should not be "laboured" or jerky ( but quite common for the front to go up, then the back in a see saw type motion - on the 4x4 I have had anyway)
And to give it a work out set it max up and max down, a few times in quick succession, and see if it works ok
Although perhaps not try that on a private sale in case you break it
I have not had a merc so equipped, but have had several Range Rovers and Land-cruisers with the various flavours of uppy downy suspension
And the important point is that it should go up and down smartly, it should not be "laboured" or jerky ( but quite common for the front to go up, then the back in a see saw type motion - on the 4x4 I have had anyway)
And to give it a work out set it max up and max down, a few times in quick succession, and see if it works ok
Although perhaps not try that on a private sale in case you break it
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 19 June 2013 at 08:17 PM.
19 June 2013, 10:27 PM
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My daily is currently an R32 but I did toy with the idea of a CL500 or an E500 (and a Spec B, Mazda 6 mps etc) they're lovely cars to be a passenger in and also have a good turn of pace for big old man cars. There is so much available sub £10k right now it makes buying and looking for a car much fun!
However my wife was not keen on having to drive a large car and I further chose not to buy one on the basis that a single component failure of one of those Mercs can drop an *outrageous* bill on its owner and make the car difficult to sell. My father is a mad Merc fan and forgives these cars their temperamental tendencies but that is probably because he has much deeper pockets than I. We've not too long had an AMG CLS in the family and it has already suffered rear suspension failure at less than 10k and certainly not been abused. Had that happened out of warranty I shudder to even contemplate at the cost of sorting that out.
As a side note I think the fuel consumption of a CL500 would also make the average Impreza look reasonably economical. Comparing it to what we've had in the past you'll struggle to get it into the 20s unless on a really easy cruise.
However my wife was not keen on having to drive a large car and I further chose not to buy one on the basis that a single component failure of one of those Mercs can drop an *outrageous* bill on its owner and make the car difficult to sell. My father is a mad Merc fan and forgives these cars their temperamental tendencies but that is probably because he has much deeper pockets than I. We've not too long had an AMG CLS in the family and it has already suffered rear suspension failure at less than 10k and certainly not been abused. Had that happened out of warranty I shudder to even contemplate at the cost of sorting that out.
As a side note I think the fuel consumption of a CL500 would also make the average Impreza look reasonably economical. Comparing it to what we've had in the past you'll struggle to get it into the 20s unless on a really easy cruise.
Last edited by thenewgalaxy; 19 June 2013 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Annoying iPad autocorrect
19 June 2013, 10:48 PM
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19 June 2013, 11:40 PM
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Precision engineering for sure they are lovely cars, but ours have had a major failure on each of the last five in fifteen years usually gearboxes or engine.
19 June 2013, 11:51 PM
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My daily is currently an R32 but I did toy with the idea of a CL500 or an E500 (and a Spec B, Mazda 6 mps etc) they're lovely cars to be a passenger in and also have a good turn of pace for big old man cars. There is so much available sub £10k right now it makes buying and looking for a car much fun!
However my wife was not keen on having to drive a large car and I further chose not to buy one on the basis that a single component failure of one of those Mercs can drop an *outrageous* bill on its owner and make the car difficult to sell. My father is a mad Merc fan and forgives these cars their temperamental tendencies but that is probably because he has much deeper pockets than I. We've not too long had an AMG CLS in the family and it has already suffered rear suspension failure at less than 10k and certainly not been abused. Had that happened out of warranty I shudder to even contemplate at the cost of sorting that out.
As a side note I think the fuel consumption of a CL500 would also make the average Impreza look reasonably economical. Comparing it to what we've had in the past you'll struggle to get it into the 20s unless on a really easy cruise.
However my wife was not keen on having to drive a large car and I further chose not to buy one on the basis that a single component failure of one of those Mercs can drop an *outrageous* bill on its owner and make the car difficult to sell. My father is a mad Merc fan and forgives these cars their temperamental tendencies but that is probably because he has much deeper pockets than I. We've not too long had an AMG CLS in the family and it has already suffered rear suspension failure at less than 10k and certainly not been abused. Had that happened out of warranty I shudder to even contemplate at the cost of sorting that out.
As a side note I think the fuel consumption of a CL500 would also make the average Impreza look reasonably economical. Comparing it to what we've had in the past you'll struggle to get it into the 20s unless on a really easy cruise.
I'm certain now that I'm going to make the move. I know and accept the potential risks. I will of course be choosing very carefully.
Day to day running costs should be comparable to my T25, given that the Merc service intervals are 15k (I think) and the Impreza is 5k. So 1 Merc service should be roughly comparable to 3 T25 interim services (especially if I look outside the MB dealer network).
As for fuel economy, I really don't think there'll be much in it. I tend to drive like an old lady these days anyway. T25 on a run does 22-26MPG I believe that is comparable to the CL (and as F1 pointed out I can run the Merc on 95ron)
Last edited by Martin2005; 20 June 2013 at 12:01 AM.
19 June 2013, 11:57 PM
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Would a dealer or independent warranty likely cover things like an ABC failure?
Last edited by Martin2005; 20 June 2013 at 12:02 AM.
20 June 2013, 12:00 AM
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Re the uppy downy suspension (pardon my technical speak)
I have not had a merc so equipped, but have had several Range Rovers and Land-cruisers with the various flavours of uppy downy suspension
And the important point is that it should go up and down smartly, it should not be "laboured" or jerky ( but quite common for the front to go up, then the back in a see saw type motion - on the 4x4 I have had anyway)
And to give it a work out set it max up and max down, a few times in quick succession, and see if it works ok
Although perhaps not try that on a private sale in case you break it
I have not had a merc so equipped, but have had several Range Rovers and Land-cruisers with the various flavours of uppy downy suspension
And the important point is that it should go up and down smartly, it should not be "laboured" or jerky ( but quite common for the front to go up, then the back in a see saw type motion - on the 4x4 I have had anyway)
And to give it a work out set it max up and max down, a few times in quick succession, and see if it works ok
Although perhaps not try that on a private sale in case you break it
20 June 2013, 08:34 PM
#19
Got an independent warranty on my CL600 a couple of years ago.
Suspension dropped on one corner over night so they replaced the valve on that corner .It was never a problem again.
Lovely cars and awesome sound under full throttle!!
20 June 2013, 10:44 PM
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It seems that everyone has the same ABC issues. Of course I know that's not the case, but my god some people have had a rough time with it.
As I'm a stats man, I'd love to know what % of cars (and at what age/mileage) this problems arise?
Out of interest, how much did/does your warranty cost, andwho's it with?
btw I was so fazed by some of the stuff I read today I started looking a BMW 7 series and Lexus GS, both did nothing for me (although I suspect the Lexus would be less of a potential ticking time-bomb)
20 June 2013, 10:55 PM
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Yes, but really what's the point on a car like a CL? The ABC is a brilliant system... until it goes wrong of course. The first time you turn in at speed and the car remains completely level you find yourself having to take steering lock off as you are anticpating the body roll... and there isn't any.
20 June 2013, 11:01 PM
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Just when I thought I'd looked at this from every angle...I made the mistake of reading some threads on the MB forums today. Scared the siht out of me!
It seems that everyone has the same ABC issues. Of course I know that's not the case, but my god some people have had a rough time with it.
As I'm a stats man, I'd love to know what % of cars (and at what age/mileage) this problems arise?
It seems that everyone has the same ABC issues. Of course I know that's not the case, but my god some people have had a rough time with it.
As I'm a stats man, I'd love to know what % of cars (and at what age/mileage) this problems arise?
Then of course there are the people who keep on driving despite a nice red error message on the dash and quadruple the damage couased.
To answer your questions most failures seem to be age rather than mileage related ... 5 - 8 years old seems to be the norm. If you have the VIN number of the car you are interested in call a Mercedes dealer and ask them to tell you whether the ABC has been serviced or replaced.
Having the fluid replaced every two years seems to be the best prevention.
20 June 2013, 11:09 PM
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I think this is a bit like a lot of things with cars ... no one posts to say how great there ABC is.. they only post when it goes wrong. Then there are a lot of so called independent specialists out there who don't know what they're doing with it and mess it up. Not to mention some of the main dealers.
Then of course there are the people who keep on driving despite a nice red error message on the dash and quadruple the damage couased.
To answer your questions most failures seem to be age rather than mileage related ... 5 - 8 years old seems to be the norm. If you have the VIN number of the car you are interested in call a Mercedes dealer and ask them to tell you whether the ABC has been serviced or replaced.
Having the fluid replaced every two years seems to be the best prevention.
Then of course there are the people who keep on driving despite a nice red error message on the dash and quadruple the damage couased.
To answer your questions most failures seem to be age rather than mileage related ... 5 - 8 years old seems to be the norm. If you have the VIN number of the car you are interested in call a Mercedes dealer and ask them to tell you whether the ABC has been serviced or replaced.
Having the fluid replaced every two years seems to be the best prevention.
The problem is, I drove one the other day and completely fell for it. Hard to describe just how nice it was.
I'm certainly not going to buy a car without knowing it's history inside out.
This raises another issue though, do you go for one that has had ABC issues and been fixed (given that it seems that there are recurrences of these problems) or do you go for one that has had no issues.....yet??
btw I know that's a kind of impossible question
I think I'm going to have a chat with my local Merc dealers/workshop tomorrow.
Last edited by Martin2005; 20 June 2013 at 11:10 PM.
20 June 2013, 11:23 PM
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Yes, but really what's the point on a car like a CL? The ABC is a brilliant system... until it goes wrong of course. The first time you turn in at speed and the car remains completely level you find yourself having to take steering lock off as you are anticpating the body roll... and there isn't any.
It Would break my heart to convert it to shocks and springs
And I do change the AHC fluid (myself) every few years
Just sayin though
21 June 2013, 12:00 AM
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Yea I think that's good advice.
The problem is, I drove one the other day and completely fell for it. Hard to describe just how nice it was.
I'm certainly not going to buy a car without knowing it's history inside out.
This raises another issue though, do you go for one that has had ABC issues and been fixed (given that it seems that there are recurrences of these problems) or do you go for one that has had no issues.....yet??
btw I know that's a kind of impossible question
I think I'm going to have a chat with my local Merc dealers/workshop tomorrow.
The problem is, I drove one the other day and completely fell for it. Hard to describe just how nice it was.
I'm certainly not going to buy a car without knowing it's history inside out.
This raises another issue though, do you go for one that has had ABC issues and been fixed (given that it seems that there are recurrences of these problems) or do you go for one that has had no issues.....yet??
btw I know that's a kind of impossible question
I think I'm going to have a chat with my local Merc dealers/workshop tomorrow.
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