Dingdongler

Hello.

My M5 is getting on a bit and I fancy a change this year. I was thinking of holding out for the new M5 but to be honest I really don't drive that fast anymore. I hardly ever get to use anywhere near the full potential of my current M5.

On top of that it will cost circa £70k and fuel costs will be astronomical.

So I'm thinking about a luxury diesel barge, something really big and comfy where I can really feel relaxed and cosseted. I haven't completely lost my speed addiction so would like it to have some go.
I'd buy about 18 months old with a budget of circa £50k.

The choices are

1) Mercedes S350.

Pros

I think they look really nice, the interior is gorgeous. Often described as the best luxury car in the world.

Cons

Only has 230 BHP!


2) BMW 740d

Pros

I quite like BMWs (sorry!)

300 BHP

Should provide some driver entertainment

Cons

Not overly keen on the looks, though the current model looks a little better than the outgoing.

Interior is nice, but doesn't really scream luxury.


Audi A8 4.2 TDI

Pros

350 BHP!

4wd

Cons

I've never really owned an Audi and never really 'got them'

Never seems to fare well in car mags when compared to the MB or BMW.

Any opinions welcomed.

Thanks

Matteeboy

What a bu66er - Merc seemed to have dropped their 420CDI unit (might still be in the M/GL class?)!

I've driven a newish 750i and have a 335d with almost the same engine as the 740d - the 7er was a lovely car to drive. Excellent chassis, quick, a million toys, extremely comfortable but probably the worst looking of the group.

S class - unless you go for a big petrol, they are a bit sluggish but loads of presence and even more toys than the BM.

Audi - I think it's another case of a lot of power with a dull chassis. I reckon after the M5, it would get on your t1ts.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

No question the - the new Jaguar XJ. Has a fabulous diesel engine (pushes the XF to 60 in 5.9s and the XJ is actually lighter as it is all aluminium).

Rave review in Evo this month, it is also very cosseting - really lovely. Lots of toys and fantastic ambiance. If the XJ is anywhere near as good to drive as the XF S then you are in for a treat (and evo again raves about the new XJ as a drivers car).

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Oh, and the Jag comes with a B&W sound system with special quality cables

Dingdongler

I think you're right about the Audi Mattee, having looked at some on the net the A8 doesn't even look as good (interior or exterior) as the BMW 7. God knows what it drives like!

Tempted by the 750L actually, comes with loads of extra toys as standard and 400 BHP and 0-60 in 5.5 secs. Problem is after the average 11mpg I get on my current car I had promised myself never to make that mistake again (unless I bought something exotic). Resale on these will also be miserable.

Trout, two problems with the XJ

1) If the old ones are anything to go by they are not that spacious inside (compared to others in class). The rear head height especially is limited, hence its coupe style looks.

2) It has only just come out, and there is no way I'm buying a brand new car.

Btw I've read the audio cables in the Jag have been coated in the oil of a very rare South American snake to improve sound quality

Matteeboy

Well the 750i I tested was bloody brilliant. Not too bad on fuel either (only did 50 miles in it though). Absolute gem of a V8 engine.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Doesn't the 750L only have two (very luxurious) seats in the back.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The old XJ and new one are totally different cars!

As for the snake oil - I don't use that on my cables as it increases sibilance!

Matteeboy

The 750iL is certainly quite roomy in the back - but it's huuuge!

Dingdongler

I didn't know the L version only had two individual seats in the back.

I'm also confused by the 7 series engines. Both the 730d and 740d have a 3 litre engine but one puts out 250BHP and the other 300 BHP, how does that work?

I shall look into the XJ, but being so new makes it a problematic purchase for me. Also I'm quite sceptical about Jags, they always get a great initial right up by the press, but I feel that sometimes that just a patriotic gesture.

Thanks

SimonD

How about a s/h W12 Phaeton? You could use the change to pay for the fuel .

.....oh, and stick a Passat badge on the back to see if anyone notices!

Matteeboy

Ones a single turbo, the other is a twin - almost the same as the 35d engine but with a bit more power and torque. It's still a six pot 3.0 litre though - most confusing!

Dingdongler

Thanks mattee

Simon, I quite liked the Phaeton actually, shame its obsolete now.

I rang up the local Jag garage and they are having the Jag XJ roadshow coming to them next Thursday and offered me a test drive. I'm at work all day so can't take them up on the offer which is a shame.

Official launch isn't until end May. I must say I'm not sure on the looks, from pics it looks very American and Lexus like.

stuart2008sti

iTrader: (1)

Passed a new xj on the m50 at lunch time,pictures of it look great but looking at it today as it went past im not so sure.

NotoriousREV

I saw a new XJ L on the M6 a couple of weeks back, it looked awesome. Loads of presence, modern without looking tacky. I'd have one in a heartbeat if finances allowed.

Dingdongler

I've been looking into the XJ a bit more and it seems to get excellent right ups. Some of the photos make it look gorgeous and some a bit tacky so I'll have to see it in the flesh to make my mind up.

Will the 3.0litre XJ engine be as good as the BMW 3.0 twin turbo?

Matteeboy

Very similar by the sounds of it - BMW engine is apparently more aggressive sounding (if that can be said of a diesel) and slightly more powerful but the Jag has a bit more. Both decent units and pretty similar.

Saw the XJ write up in Evo (with a V8) - sounds impressive and 1700kgs for such a car is amazing but I noticed it makes it's 20" alloys look small so it must be enormous!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I haven't driven the XJ, but I have driven the XF twice very recently with the 3.0d S engine. I have also driven the last (as in not just released) 530d and 535d.

The XF is a very fine car to drive and a gorgeous car to be in. Some of the interior combinations are targeted at granddad with beige and wood - but you can get piano black/aluminium which looks ultra modern. The XJ is very similar.

The XF is a great drive - very composed, firm, responsive, brilliant Sport Setting. Very, very quick.

But - it does not feel quite as ballistic as the 535d which it supposedly betters on pace. It may be because it is so refined and the delivery so smooth.

The other factor is that the XJ is lighter than the XF so should go even better.

My last comment is that all of the parts are individually excellent - but I am not so sure the sum of the parts is greater than the whole - which I do think is true for the BMW 5 series.

I have only ever been a passenger in a 7 so cannot compare - it was lovely travelling club class in the back!

Dingdongler

Thanks.

I'm beginning to fall for the Jag, not quite sure why, I've never owned one in my life.

I don't think it is actually lighter than the XF, just not any heavier, which is still quite impressive given that its bigger.

Its a bit down on power compared to the 740d (275 vs 300 BHP), but then I think the XJ should come in about 100kgs lighter. I can't seem to find the torque figure for the Jag for some reason.

You are right though, we have no idea whether it all comes together to make the Jag the ultimate luxury big sports saloon. I'm sort of hoping its not, otherwise I might be tempted to buy one soon and buying a brand new big Jag is usually a recipe for financial ruin

Trout

iTrader: (1)

600nm


I am sure you would not regret it - this car is a class apart from Jags of old. It really does take BMW on head to head in the sports saloon stakes.

PS It is 24kgs lighter - I am sure you will feel that extra acceleration

Dingdongler

Thanks.

It seems the 740d is quite a bit heavier at 1950kgs compared to the XJ at below 1800kgs. This would explain why with 25 BHP less than the BMW that Jag still has a 0-60 time of 0.3secs less.

I look forward to driving it in May

Matteeboy

A few tests are a little suspicious of Jags 0-60 claims (like many Audis too...!). The 3.0 diesel XF seems to take 5.9 to 60 but 6.4 to 62 - that's a lot of time to gain 2mph!

Still quick though.

Torque is 445lbs/ft - plenty.

john banks

I bet with sensible wheels the Jag will have a proper ride quality unlike the Germans.

Matteeboy

With non RFTs, the Germans (well some of them) ride very well. It's the over stiff, over wheeled, rubber band tyred ones (usually S-Line or M Sport) that ride badly all in the name of fashion.

I like the XKs a lot but the XF and new XJ just don't get away from the pipe and slippers image enough for me.

Dingdongler

I don't think the XF looks pipe and slippers, just looks nice and comfy! I'll reserve judgment on the XJ until I see it in the flesh.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I think the gearbox was targeted at the 0-60 time and then there is a gearchange!

The 0-62 time is the same as the 535D.

Matteeboy

See what Autocar said....

BMW claims the 535d can hit 62mph in 6.4sec. Jaguar claims the less powerful, heavier XF 3.0D S will reach 60 in 5.9sec. Sound reasonable? No, nor to me, especially given that we couldn’t coax a 2.7D to 60mph any quicker than 8.4sec when the Jaguar claim was 7.7sec.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

And subjectively I would agree - it is still brisk though

Matteeboy

TBH, I'm splitting hairs. It sounds like a decent car and it's about time the 335d/535d had some competition

austinwrx

lexus 600 hybrid ? think its a 600 series. maybe 650.

jag xf.