bennetm

Still looking at other options apart from the scoob, and I was after info on these beasts.

Put up a similar post a while back, but ive lost it! Couple of people said they could help.

What're they like compared to a scoob in terms of handling, I believe its full time 4x4? 250bhp standard seems pretty good and 2nd hand calue also a plus...

Any comments?

MB

Jolly Green Monster 2

I had an MR2 Turbo which has the same engine, before I needed more room and bought my first Scooby.

Very nice engine, solid...

In the MR2 (and I presume GT4) before about 93 they are 200bhp and after 93 they are 235bhp.

Boost wise on the GT4 because the engine is in the front cooling is better than the MR2 and you can reliably run 17psi which gives you 270bhp or 300bhp (before and after 93).
Gear boxes are lovely and strong too.
Only down point on the MR2 was the crap brakes.. but upgrades are cheap.

I believe it is perminent 4x4.. the handling should be pretty good although they are a heavy car.. not as quick as a Scooby but still quick. I love the agressive looks..

I bought my tuning stuff and parts from Fensport and I highly recommend them.
They have a Corrolla with the same engine jammed in the front running about 300bhp... nutty!

Goodluck finding one

JGM

Splat

Had a imported J plate before my current scooby, not as fast (no real nudge in the back like the scooby), but held the road as well, and was comfortable (electric seats, air con etc), not much room in the back but who cares you sit in the front.

Cheers

MattN

the brakes on a ST205 are second to none

IWatkins

JGM,

Latest news on that Corolla is that it is now at over 370bhp. Not bad, then consider it is FWD and you just know it is very quick

Cheers

Ian

bennetm

Thanks all,

Anyone know where's best to find one, apart from Autotrader? What are the merits of a UK against an import, not fuelling aka scooby?!
Suppose the UK dealers won't touch an import as with other cars.

Bit concerned you don't get an accelaration kick, one of the scoob's best features. Suppose that can be sorted with some mods though?!

MB

Jolly Green Monster 2

My MR2 had lots of kick... I chipped it and upped the boost for about £250 and it out accellerated my mates standard Scooby.

The 4wd I guess must take some of the kick away.

That Corrolla was running 270bhp when I last saw it (about 1999) and first was not much use then, the traction control was not activated so I presume it must have been now!

Usual 'Import / UK' problems and gains...

If import then Super Unleaded / Optimax, although standard I did run normal unleaded. Insurance will be more on an import..
Take it to an independent for servicing and should be no problems.
It is more or less identical to the uk in parts wise so should be not problems sourcing parts.
Higher standard spec on Import probably with air con blah blah...

Get an insurance quote on both uk and import.

IWatkins

Nobody I know has had a problem getting an import serviced at a main dealer. They seem quite happy. However, I would use your Toyota dealer as a last resort because of their prices. There are many independents that will do a better job for less cash.

Aim for a later model ST205 is you can afford it. Engines bombproof (in comparison to Scoobs), gearboxes the same. Basically, a lot of overengineering, which adds to the weight.

However, once wound up the ST205 goes and goes. It doesn't hit a brick wall at over a ton (like some other cars can) and will pull to the rev limiter in top (eventually), at something around 150mph.

Oil changes are vital, you *must* stay on top of these. The ST205 also runs very hot under the bonnet. Many people think there is something wrong with the car because of this in compassison to say a Scoob.

Build quality is higher than the Scoob and interior is much nicer (IMHO). Getting big power out of them can be hard work and expensive.

There are some very good examples about, take your time.

JGM,
No, still no traction control But he is thinking of going 4WD.

Cheers

Ian

900t16Aero

A good friend of mine has a ST 205 on a M plate, its running 1.2 bar and around 300bhp, its black with white OZ wheels, full Arrows body mods and the huge rear wing, now personally the normal Celica of that era is not my cup of tea but this car looks MENTAL!
As for them not having a kick in the back.....Crap, standard the imports run 249 bhp- as mentioned his is significantly more, as also mentioned these cars were over-engineered, i think they cost nearly £40k new.
I can vouch for its performance as i have been a passenger in it around Donnington and Goodwood where there were also plenty of exotica including Scoobie's, 968 Club Sport's, 355's, TVR's etc etc.....he got the fastest time of the day at Goodwood (unofficial), i would say however that a Scoobie might offer a rawer driving experience but overall i am amazed at the capabilities of this vehicle...
Oh as for top end he has had it touching the rev limiter in 5th which isn't 150 more like 170-175mph, but as i say his has circa 300bhp.
Pete.

kwakman

I've got a 265 bhp Jap Scoob, my lodger has a 255 bhp Jap GT4 and the Scooby leaves it for dead.

Look at the difference in weight, the GT4 weighs 300 kg more than the Scoob. This makes the GT4s power to weight ratio that of a hot hatch. Given the sprint ratios in my box, etc, I can get past him like his handbrake is on. He doesnt hang around in it either, but there isnt the shove in the back like the Scooby can give you.

The plus points are: it looks quite good and is very cheap to insure, but ultimately, if its performance you are after, a full power Jap Scoob is the best bang for buck by a mile.

900t16Aero

Well yes OBVIOUSLY your 265 bhp car will beat his 255bhp car that is power/weight, however the engines in the Toyota are very over engineered (titanium used in the pistons if i recall correctly) and can produce significantly more than this, his has 300bhp ish, he's run identically through the gears against a 280bhp WRX and a E46 M3.
I didnt state that Scoobies are not fast in a straight line did i?,
however the Toyota chassis is very forgiving and allows the car to be recovered from ludicrous angles with a competent driver, i think this goes some way to explaining why his car is very fast on the track.
P.s i dont think youll have quite the same result agianst his 300bhp Celica would you?- that wasnt the point of my post.
Pete.

kwakman

Yawn......

The original point of the post was a comparison of GT4s and Scoobs, not how quick your mates highly modded 300hp whatever is around a track.

As I've got both parked on my drive, I'm in a position to comment. For the same outlay, an import Scooby of the same MY is faster in a straight line, around corners and under braking, and I know this because we've compared them on the road. So, if performance is your primary consideration, buy a Scoob.

However, if the choice was between a GT4 and a certain Swedish front-drive boat, then I'd buy the Celica.

900t16Aero

What a certain Swedish boat that brought turbo-charging to the masses- where would your plasticy farmers wagon be now? ploughing fields no doubt or still driven by farmers not TWOC'ers, i dont come on here for insults just to put across a point of view.Anyone can be insulting......
Pete.

900t16Aero

If you ACTUALLY READ what ive said im not in anyway doubting the acceleration cornering or braking capabilities of yours or any Scooby, what i stated was that i think the Celica's are very forgiving which could be the reason why he was faster round the track than other cars including scoobies.
I do however find it hard to believe the Scooby has better braking than a GT4, i thought scoobies were always thought of as 'marginal' for braking-something which you could never accuse the GT4 of being -310mm all round with i think 4 pots up front.
If the topic of conversation is about all round performance comparisons of a GT4 vs Scooby then why cant i base my experience of track time in one of these cars, surely this is a test of all round performance of a car to the extremities?......
Unlike you i obviously like different makes of car than just Subaru (which i do like,the comments above prove my point that anyone can make insults!) and i put my point of view across as i see it.
Pete.

mozzaITA

here we go again, is there any car that an impreza isnt better than?...i did want an impreza but the more i read peoples views on them the less i want them, U lot are worse than RS boys!!!!

I'll have to drive an impreza before i can add my 2p's worth! But i'll have a Lancer Evo ANY day of the week on looks alone!! But im after looks and mega performance so i'll have to check them both out.

MattN

going off track abit I think.

The one BIG advantage the Celica has is it's a coupe, which IMO looks far nicer than the scoob.

Being nearly 40k new means the celica is rare, unlike a scooby which are more common thye mondeo's these days.

Performance is similar, looks and running costs go to the celica. (can average about 30mog in the celica 25 in the scoob). May point for buying one though is they are rare and that for me is a big plus point.

kwakman

Whatever, guys. MB, if you want to try both cars back to back and you are prepared to come up to Cambridge I'll take you for a ride in both and you can make your own mind up.

Cheers

Andy.

bennetm

Thanks again all,

Interesting stuff and I wasn't aware they were 40k new! Didn't think you could get worse than scooby residuals.

Andy, thanks for the offer, its good (and rare) to hear from someone with both. Will be in touch if I go down that route. The temptation is there from the "bullet proof Toyota" angle, but the scoob is a vey hard act to follow performance wise.

MB

IWatkins

MB,

Going from a standard Scoob to a standard ST205 GT4 will feel like a step down in performance. I reckon this isn't only due to the the ST205 being slightly slower in acceleration (but higher top end) due to gearing and weight. I think the biggest difference you will find is the noise.

In car the ST205 could be pulling like a train, on a mission to make it to 150+ mph etc. but your passenger might not know it as the car is quiet inside. Hence, it feels slower.

Of course, things can be done about this

But having driven or been in Scoobs quite a bit, I find the noise gets to me after a few hours, especially on motorway journeys. You will find this isn't the case in the GT4.

Good luck, let us know how you get on. If you do need any specific help on the GT4, also let me know. I might not know the answer but I know several men who will

Cheers

Ian

markquinton

Just like to say that I picked up a celica st185 Carlos Sainz edition last week and I still can't remove the grin. Once its up to 14psi and I have removed the boost limiter in 1st and 2nd it will be perfect.

Much much much rarer than a scooby - 440 of the carlos sainz ones made in the uk and only 5k world wide. And if looks could kill!!

mine is k reg with fsh and has 64k and I paid £4800.

The gt4 is a very underated alternative and the handling is better in my opinion - more neutral. Its the rarity that makes this car and its good to be a bit different!

Mark

Jolly Green Monster 2

I can vouch that the Celica engine is bullet proof.. the MR2 I had with the same engine snapped a cambelt! replaced the cambelt and off it ran again.. no damage... Toyota claim it is a non-contact engine and sure enough it was.. Does exactly as it says on the tin.

I only went for a Scooby over the Celica because I needed 5doors.

JGM

bennetm

Ta Ian,

Might be my old age (23) but its quite nice to be in a car which as v fast, but quiet. The scoob's noise dampening is poor. I also like the tuning potential of the Celica, I always worry about the scooby blowing up!

MB

bennetm

DP. oops.

[Edited by bennetm - 3/25/2002 2:17:25 PM]