Richie1

Yeah, bloody scarey getting it to drop that low (had 9MPG in mine at one point) when the boost kicks in.

As for the Saxo/WRX on the twisty road ?? Next thing you'll be saying is it can keep with my car as well and I have been up against one of these on a few twisties and left it easily.

A lot of the "twisty" driving is to do with the size of bollocks you have. One reason I was on the **** of an Impreza Terzo 3 impatiently waiting for a chance to pass





[Edited by Richie1 - 4/2/2002 9:25:40 AM]

LG John

Figured I might as well ask what the general opinion of the Saxo is. Please don't post unless you've drive a VTS and no need to make the Subaru - VTS camparison (been done recently in other threads). I'm just interested to know what you thought of the VTS as an £11k hot-hatch. Would be especially interested to hear from anyone that has driven both the VTS and 106 GTI and which they liked best (if any)!

Cheers.

[Edited by Saxo Boy - 3/20/2002 9:43:24 PM]

M11

A mate of mine has a 96P VTS and I the only problem I have with the car is it is a little bit of a harsh ride but then it is lowered by 60mm.

Other than that it's one of the best hot hatches around (IMHO)

I know it's not much but hope this helps

Neil

Dream Weaver

My sister has a Saxo VTS, and I cant drive it due to the pedals being too close together, and me having big plates of meat.

With regards performance, we once had a comparison test down our local by-pass, and she was shocked to find that I was staying with her from 0 - 80mph. Afterwards she couldn't believe it, saying she should have slaughtered me - why? Cos I was in my 140,000 miler H-Reg Rover 216 GSi 5 Door (which I dont have anymore btw) which only had 115bhp (but was quite quick).

I now have an MR2 174bhp model and can easily out accelerate her in that.

I do like the looks of the Saxo though, and prefer the looks to the 106 GTi, but having been in a 106 GTi the 106 seems to be quicker.

DW

Scott W

My brother has the VTR (OK slightly different ), and he's had it chipped, and got a full decat exhaust, and it is a very nice car.

The added advantage he's got is that he has more power than a std VTS, but without the need for everyone Tom, Dick and Harry to "challenge" him because of the badge.

The only grumble I had when I drove it was the pedals were far too close for me big feet!

LG John

Weaver your sister must have a bit of a pig in a poke cause my VTS has beaten MR2's before. Once came accross on doing silly speeds, the two lads driving were about 16 and it was pretty obvious they just knicked it (b*stards) but I toyed with then on a long straight and had to back off to avoid going into the back of them. I then slowed down and they kept going and going and going.....crazy!!! Wonder if they are in jail yet, hmmmm!

Richie1

Saxo boy, are we talking the non-turbo MR2's right ??

BTW, someone at work here wants to know if you're a member of the SSC (Saxo Sports Club)

Dream Weaver

Saxo - All depends on which MR2 you play with and the driver as well - they take some getting used to due to high revs and RWD. Although they all look the same, the power outputs are vastly different as per:

1989-1991 121bhp
1991-1994 158bhp
1994-1996 174bhp Higher compression, revised suspension
1996 on 168bhp compression lowered

Turbo 245bhp+

I have the NA 174 version, and pitted it against my mates 328i Coupe Sport at the weekend - both cars were equal in performance right up to silly speeds from a 1st gear roundabout (onto the motorway).

After 12 months ownership, I still cant believe how underrated these cars are - keep your eyes out.

Dont get me wrong though Saxo, I think the VTS is a great car, and I would consider one for the missus if I could get my feet on the pedals.

Especially love the ones like my sisters with the later alloys on - the bendy 5 spoke types. Hers is a 2000 W (and currently up for sale at £8500 if you want another )

DW

LG John

No it wasn’t a turbo, the Saxo couldn’t keep up with one of those. I have also had the privilege of gunning it against the BMW 328i and it was neck and neck the whole way so the VTS and your MR2 must be around and about the same in a straight line. Owners of bigger cars, like the CLK 230K on the way home last night, always seem to think they can leave the Saxo for dead and more often than not fail! It might only have 120-30bhp but she tips the scales at 935kg and is geared to go. As I said in a previous thread out of the hundreds of cars that I’ve played with (all where road conditions permit) the only car ever to totally destroy the VTS was the new M3. Where’d he go…………..

I would be tempted by the MR2 but the old version is a bit long in the tooth for me and the new one looks mince!

I personally love the VTS, and as annoying as the pedals are you get used to it (unless your feet really are huge). The grip through the twisties in the dry in phenomenal, it scares me sometime the speed you can take into a corner. Usually I think like this:

“Ah sweeping 80 degree turn coming up, speed 85mph……oh crap going to fast…..Brake into the corner……you’ve done it this time Saxo Boy, she’s never going to hold”

Hit the corner hard, front end begins to slide a little. Back off gas, front end tucks in back end goes. Feed in opposite lock and mash the throttle out of the corner and keep on going. Somewhere in there you get totally slammed into the driver-side door or you passenger with those lateral G’s. It the emotional rollercoster I like, you go from thinking your going to die, to holding onto the controls for dear life to grinning from ear to ear in about 2 seconds. For £10,800 with a year’s free insurance (which saved me a packet and has made a scooby possible) it just doesn’t get any better than that!

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, keep em’ coming!

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, I have a 106 GTi and I bl00dy love it!!!

I actually drove a VTS a few months before I got the GTi and thought "wow, what a quick little car", so I wanted one.

The VTS and the GTi are very similar and share a hell of a lot of the same bits, but I do prefer the Pug, that's why I bought one.

I have driven other VTS's since than and my sister has got a newish VTR too, so I have a good basis for comparison.

The Peugeot does seem to be built a bit better then the Citroen and it is finished off better too with more trim and fancier bits. I do love the leather trim on the GTi and the VTS interior is not a patch on it. Also get stuff like an alloy spare instead of a steel and carpeted everywhere.

Driving wise, they both (are virtually identical) go like stink for a normally aspirated 1.6 and you'd swear there was more than 120bhp under the bonnet!

They also stick like glue and you can shame a lot of cars that cost a hell of a lot more. It really gives me satisfaction when Mr Arrogant in his big flash car tries it on, then loses.

However... in just a few weeks I unfortunately will be selling it and coming over to your side folks.

Yup, it's time to have a Scooby!!!

- - -

By the way, here is a quick pick...




It will be up for sale in a few weeks!

Mog

I find it somewhat strange that you ask people not to comment on the vts unless they have driven one, but all that sprouts from you is how crap all other performance cars are,perhaps you have driven them all..............................................?

LG John

What a load of crap! I'd never say a car is good/bad/indifferent until I'd had a chance to properly drive it. I have, as it happens, driven a fair amount of performace cars and have various opinions on them.

The 106 GTI is every much the car the VTS is but I prefer the looks of the VTS and with the free insurance deal there was no contest. Rich D, sounds like you think the same way about your GTI as I do about my VTS (i.e love it to bits) and as I'm sure you know I'm hoping to trade up to the Impreza soon too.

Mog if you read back through my other threads you'll see that I only post in detail about cars I've driven other than that I only make assessment on how they have faired against the VTS in a tussel or how the look/costs/value, etc.

I guess what all this stems from is the first time I properly raced a 'performace' car like and impreza or Audi S3 I expected to feel like I'd put the handbrake on but it just wasn't like that. Cars that are 2 seconds slower to 60 than the VTS are always pretty close behind and likewise the VTS is pretty close to cars 2 seconds quicker than it. That's why I hope to get an MY99 and make immediate modifications so I feel like there is a big difference.

Sorry if I've offended anyone, I'm a performace car enthusiast and if I had the money my collection would put the S of Bruni to shame!!

nigel s

I owned a VTS for 2 years, modded with a 57i induction and full magnex decat. This was one quick little car that took load of abuse and never failed to impress or fail mechnically. I still feel I could drive a local stetch of road quicker in the sax and I can in the scoob. Pedals are close together but that never gave me a problem. The later ones 'T' plate on were supplied with 15" alloys which IMHO slowed the 0-60 time. 7.4 was quoted in the early brouchers which was then revised to 7.7 after 1999 ('T'plate). Hope this helps..

Dizzy

Golf mark 1... nuf said not the first but still the best

longun

Rich D now where have I seen that name before??

Traitor

I'll be joining you in the next year with any luck....

The dark side looks so much quicker.... When I've moved the NOS over....

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Golf Mk1...

Err, quick for an old car but not as quick as a VTS!

Citroen Saxo VTS (late model):

Power - 120bhp
0-30 - 2.6secs
0-60 - 7.7secs
0-100 - 22.4secs
1/4 mile - 16.1secs @ 88mph


VW Golf GTi Mk.1

Power - 110bhp
0-30 - 2.9secs
0-60 - 9.0secs
0-100 - 33.9secs
1/4 mile - 16.9secs @ 81mph


If anyone saw the last Clarkson video where they raced a Mk.1 Golf against some of today's hot hatches and it easily won, I think you'll find that was rigged!!!

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Damn... rumbled!!!

Yeah, I thought I'd start on the Scooby forums now to get a bit of background info on Subaru's, before I get one.

Dream Weaver

Saxo Boy - Your are probably right mate, the VTS is a quick car.

Rich D - where abouts in Lancs are you? I am near Burnley, and may be interested in your 106 when you sell it, for the missus.

DW

Richie1

2 seconds gap from 0-60 is a LOT even tho it doesnt appear as much on the actual road when it comes to distance.

0-60 is not (IMHO) the true test of a car anymore. The 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile or 0-100 are a lot better areas for performance to be meausured.

longun

Rich I found this place ages ago cuz I've been into scoobys for a long time and can now afford one.... However I can't afford the one I want so am still saving... Should have it soon tho....

P1 with NOS now move over.....

LG John

Nigel I’ve heard from various sources that the MKII VTS had an ECU tweak giving her nearer 130bhp and that at about the same time Peugeot did the same to the 106 GTI. I’ve driven the MK1 and II VTS and I’d say the latter is very marginally quicker. I can get mines to 60 in 7.2 seconds and 100 in 19-20 (number of runs on flat ground, both directions)

Don’t get me started on THAT Clarkson video, what a joke!! The on the road distance between the MK1 golf and last place car was akin to the distance that (in the real (non-fixed) world) would be between a hot-hatch and scooby! The only car out of that lot I’d be scared to take on in the VTS is the Leon. I watched the launch about 50 times and the driver of the VTS must have been about half throttle cause if you get it right (i.e. don’t spin the wheels) the VTS absolutely fly’s in first. What really made me sad was after watching what I was 99.9% sure was a fixed race I wondered if they had done the same thing when the Cerbera gubbed the Aston, Lotus, Porsche, etc! Would a Cerbera really destroy those cars on the road??? Who knows.....

MattN

what timing gear did you use?

Carlos The Jackel

Saxo speedos are quite a lot out - ask Robertio

LG John

For a quick guide the old 'one mississippi, two mississippi...' works a treat but for the 0-60 and 0-100 I went down the a reclaimed peir (perfectly flat and long) and used a stop watch over several runs both ways. The car is accelerating so fast at around 60mph that my quoted 7.2 is a probable actual time of about 7.3-5. The 19 to a hundred may be out by more cause the VTS ain't pulling so good by then! Mind you, she was flying on the way home tonight! The speedo on mines must be quite accurate cause I've gone through Gatso's at indicated 75 and had a single 'don't do it again' warning flash!

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Saxo Boy -

You're methods for guaging speeds & 0-60 times are frankly a joke!

Try taking it somewhere and getting "proper" timing equipment on it and also get your speedo calibrated, then we'll see.

My mate has a mobile GPS tracker, which can be used to get the speed of a car and we are gonna do some tests on various cars to see how accurate the speedo's really are. He has an EvoVI and a Clio 172, there's my 106 GTi and we know various people with varios quick cars so he wants to test.

Will let you know the results...

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

In response to other peeps...

Dream Weaver - I also live near Burnley! YHM

Longun - I've known about this site for ages, but only looked now & again, never posted. Until now...

Richie1 - Agree with your statement on 0-60 times.


Ok, I'm off to the pub now!

LG John

Sorry Rich but I'm saving for a scooby and ain't going to spend several hundred pounds on timing equipment for the sake of .whatever of a second!!!

MattN

I only ask because that stop watch method seems to be the general rule but if you assume your 0.5 seconds out starting and stoping and your speedo is only 5% out it means your 20 seconds to 95.

It soon adds up and makes a big difference.

I'm not out to get at anyone.

Knowing how 'protective' people are of there pride and joy and the amount of 'abuse' one can get for posting unsubstaniated claims on this (and other forums) I'm surprised that people still make claims of their cars performance without any real evidence.

Maybe we should get a group buy on those G-Tec things - my mate had one and we tested things like my FTO etc. Was pretty accurate and made for some interesting reading!!!

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Saxo Boy -

You don't have to save up and pay for expensive equipment!

There are always magazine features (usually Revs) and events (Santa Pod, Trax, etc...) where you can do 0-60 & 1/4 mile runs using proper equipment.

I've never done one in the 106, but did a Revs 1/4 mile day in my previous car.

Then you'll know for sure!

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

Based on my old VTR the speedos on Saxos are way out, never had it officialy timed, but using the stop watch method with the speedo it did 30-70 in 7.5 seconds and top end with 4 people in the car was showing 17mph above book figure this was in a std 90bhp car. Those figures are clearly in faantasy land, but according to the speedo they were correct, ahem. I can only wonder what sort of figures a supercharged VTS would bring up on the Autobahn, 200+mph should be possible