Cheapish Track Day Car - Opinions??
21 December 2009, 12:07 PM
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Cheapish Track Day Car - Opinions??
Hi all,
I’ve been thinking about getting a car for mostly trackdays and have been considering all sorts (944, M3, Catterfield etc). So I thought I would ask the collective on the relative merits of the following two cars - Toyota MR2 or Mazda MX5!
The key requirements are:
Toyota MR2 (Mk2)
+ Cheap to buy
+ Tuneable
- Mid engine handling can be a bit more challenging
- Needs a bit of weight loss
Mazda MX5/Eunos (MK1)
+ Light weight
+ Chassis balance and easier to drive
+ Cheap consumables/mods
- A little slow (unless turbo’d/supercharged)
- Ghey rep (although I’m not too bothered about this)
My original budget was about £1.5k but this was keeping a couple of grand aside to add suspension, brakes, tyres, cage, seat etc. so I can stretch to around £4k for a car with everything done! I’ve also found a few turbo charged beasties for this budget…..
So what do people think – anyone driven both. I’ve had friends with MX5’s and loved them but wanted more power, but never really known anyone with a MR2.
Cheers
R
I’ve been thinking about getting a car for mostly trackdays and have been considering all sorts (944, M3, Catterfield etc). So I thought I would ask the collective on the relative merits of the following two cars - Toyota MR2 or Mazda MX5!
The key requirements are:
- Cheap to buy
- Cheap to maintain/mod
- RWD
- Fun to learn with
- Not too slow
Toyota MR2 (Mk2)
+ Cheap to buy
+ Tuneable
- Mid engine handling can be a bit more challenging
- Needs a bit of weight loss
Mazda MX5/Eunos (MK1)
+ Light weight
+ Chassis balance and easier to drive
+ Cheap consumables/mods
- A little slow (unless turbo’d/supercharged)
- Ghey rep (although I’m not too bothered about this)
My original budget was about £1.5k but this was keeping a couple of grand aside to add suspension, brakes, tyres, cage, seat etc. so I can stretch to around £4k for a car with everything done! I’ve also found a few turbo charged beasties for this budget…..
So what do people think – anyone driven both. I’ve had friends with MX5’s and loved them but wanted more power, but never really known anyone with a MR2.
Cheers
R
Last edited by RichardS2005; 21 December 2009 at 12:09 PM.
21 December 2009, 01:54 PM
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I have quite a bit of experience with MX5's - and, just for the record, its the Eunos you want as it has an LSD.
I would avoid forced induction cars- they rarely appear again after lunch on trackdays. If you want reliability stick with a regular 1.6 or 1.8.
You should be able to pick up a suitable candidate for about £700- the last one we bought was £515 inc tax and 12 months MOT so shop around, there are bargains to be had.
You should be able to find a half cage for about £250. Avoid style bars and anything that just attaches to the seat-belt towers as they offer very little rollover protection.
Suspension - we run koni coilovers as per race spec- I think you'd have them done, fitted and setup for about £750 tops. There are cheaper options.
Harnesses will set you back a few hundred quid, ideally only buy harnesses with a crytch strap in case of a roll.
Brakes are cheap. ignore everyone that says you need big brakes- they're a light car, and standard disks with either Mintex (think we're running 1144 at the moment, real cheap) or Carbotech pads (which I prefer but are 3x the price), braided hoses and decent fluid. I bought a full set (disks / pads / hoses / fluid) from the Max5 organisers and I think it came to about £220 all in. We run the race cars all day on trackdays, they only get turned off at lunch, and I've never experienced any fade whatsoever.
They do benefit from an induction cone of some description, and advance the timing to 14 degrees. I usually use a cat replacement pipe as well, but the standard system flows pretty well and isn't worth replacing.
If you want to get real serious, then polybushing the suspension makes quite a lot of difference. The bushes aren't too dear, but fitting is an absolute pig of a job.
The other thing you'll want to do is replace the water pipes, which tend to split when used hard. Silicon pipes all round isn't expensive but will save you a lot of frustration in the long run.
If all the above sounds daunting, there are several ex race cars up for sale from about £4500, although you'll need an enclosed trailer and storage as the roof won't fit over the full race cage.
The MX5's get a lot of stick from people who don't know what they're talking about. Sure, there are faster cars out there- MX5s are quite slow. However, with such a lack of power you have to learn how to drive properly- you can't afford to scrub off speed as it takes so long to re-gain, so you have to learn to carry it.
I'm not a fan of the MR2s. They do seem to be pretty good value for money, but being mid engined they don't have the same chassis poise and balance as the Mazda.
Hope this helps
I would avoid forced induction cars- they rarely appear again after lunch on trackdays. If you want reliability stick with a regular 1.6 or 1.8.
You should be able to pick up a suitable candidate for about £700- the last one we bought was £515 inc tax and 12 months MOT so shop around, there are bargains to be had.
You should be able to find a half cage for about £250. Avoid style bars and anything that just attaches to the seat-belt towers as they offer very little rollover protection.
Suspension - we run koni coilovers as per race spec- I think you'd have them done, fitted and setup for about £750 tops. There are cheaper options.
Harnesses will set you back a few hundred quid, ideally only buy harnesses with a crytch strap in case of a roll.
Brakes are cheap. ignore everyone that says you need big brakes- they're a light car, and standard disks with either Mintex (think we're running 1144 at the moment, real cheap) or Carbotech pads (which I prefer but are 3x the price), braided hoses and decent fluid. I bought a full set (disks / pads / hoses / fluid) from the Max5 organisers and I think it came to about £220 all in. We run the race cars all day on trackdays, they only get turned off at lunch, and I've never experienced any fade whatsoever.
They do benefit from an induction cone of some description, and advance the timing to 14 degrees. I usually use a cat replacement pipe as well, but the standard system flows pretty well and isn't worth replacing.
If you want to get real serious, then polybushing the suspension makes quite a lot of difference. The bushes aren't too dear, but fitting is an absolute pig of a job.
The other thing you'll want to do is replace the water pipes, which tend to split when used hard. Silicon pipes all round isn't expensive but will save you a lot of frustration in the long run.
If all the above sounds daunting, there are several ex race cars up for sale from about £4500, although you'll need an enclosed trailer and storage as the roof won't fit over the full race cage.
The MX5's get a lot of stick from people who don't know what they're talking about. Sure, there are faster cars out there- MX5s are quite slow. However, with such a lack of power you have to learn how to drive properly- you can't afford to scrub off speed as it takes so long to re-gain, so you have to learn to carry it.
I'm not a fan of the MR2s. They do seem to be pretty good value for money, but being mid engined they don't have the same chassis poise and balance as the Mazda.
Hope this helps
21 December 2009, 02:27 PM
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Wow - thanks for all the info!
My head says a nice tidy 1.8 my heart says a turbo!
Can you comment on the relative power of the 1.6 and the 1.8 - some say there isn't much difference others disagree!
Cheers for the tip off Chris - not really interested in a mini though, although it does sound fun!
Richard
My head says a nice tidy 1.8 my heart says a turbo!
Can you comment on the relative power of the 1.6 and the 1.8 - some say there isn't much difference others disagree!
Cheers for the tip off Chris - not really interested in a mini though, although it does sound fun!
Richard
21 December 2009, 02:52 PM
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Actually Chris a friend might be interested in the mini - got any photos/specs/links to the advert?
Cheers
R
Cheers
R
Last edited by RichardS2005; 21 December 2009 at 03:13 PM.
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22 December 2009, 11:22 AM
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Ain't that the truth!
I guess the MX5 hits cheap and reliable so I'll just have to substitute fun for fast! I guess there is always the option to supercharge/turbo charge later on, once I know what's good/bad. Less risky but much more expensive than buying a turbo'd one at the start....
Can't seem to find one close to £700 though (a 1.6??) even on ebay - must be time of year. Any tips finding one at that price range?
Cheers
R
I guess the MX5 hits cheap and reliable so I'll just have to substitute fun for fast! I guess there is always the option to supercharge/turbo charge later on, once I know what's good/bad. Less risky but much more expensive than buying a turbo'd one at the start....
Can't seem to find one close to £700 though (a 1.6??) even on ebay - must be time of year. Any tips finding one at that price range?
Cheers
R
22 December 2009, 12:55 PM
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Unfortunately that did not meet the WAF (wife approval factor) although I quite like them in a retro kind of way! Started looking at e36 M3's too but I think it would have become too expensive for me right now...
22 December 2009, 01:11 PM
#12
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I went from a classic Sti to a Eunos 1.8.
Although I lost the rear seats and the power, to be honest I didnt really miss it.
To say they are fun is an understatement.
Took me a few months to get used to the handling and how responsive they are, but no sooner, I was catching myself grinning like an idiot while blasting down some B-roads with the top down.
I can only say how good these cars are.
Though, as an everyday car, I needed more room as was back playing hockey, so took the car off the road, put her in the garage and bought myself an Integra Type R.
May not be RWD, but this thing really does fly and holds its own.
(If you dont mind not having rwd, its well worth a look into these)
Ive unfortunately had to put my mx5 up for sale now, and I wish I could keep her and do some subtle mods for track days as never been on one, but needs must....
Honestly though, for the money and fun factor, you wont be able to beat an mx5.
Although I lost the rear seats and the power, to be honest I didnt really miss it.
To say they are fun is an understatement.
Took me a few months to get used to the handling and how responsive they are, but no sooner, I was catching myself grinning like an idiot while blasting down some B-roads with the top down.
I can only say how good these cars are.
Though, as an everyday car, I needed more room as was back playing hockey, so took the car off the road, put her in the garage and bought myself an Integra Type R.
May not be RWD, but this thing really does fly and holds its own.
(If you dont mind not having rwd, its well worth a look into these)
Ive unfortunately had to put my mx5 up for sale now, and I wish I could keep her and do some subtle mods for track days as never been on one, but needs must....
Honestly though, for the money and fun factor, you wont be able to beat an mx5.
22 December 2009, 01:27 PM
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22 December 2009, 02:18 PM
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Cheap car here Mazda : UK MX5 1.8i I reckon you'd probably own that for about £300. Don't let the mileage scare you.
22 December 2009, 05:39 PM
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I did consider a Integra Type R at first but I feel like RWD is a scratch I must itch!
I've always felt that 200SX's are a bit frail, probably no more so than anything else though!
I've always felt that 200SX's are a bit frail, probably no more so than anything else though!
22 December 2009, 06:13 PM
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Cheap car here Mazda : UK MX5 1.8i I reckon you'd probably own that for about £300. Don't let the mileage scare you.
Steve
22 December 2009, 06:32 PM
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200sx's are great, but nothing matches the reliability of the MX5. Having to fix a car at a circuit while everyone is out playing ain't no fun
22 December 2009, 07:58 PM
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Just to be the ying to your yang, there are duff MX5s out there.
I bought one 18months ago. It had an intermittent fault in the engine electronics that 3 local garages and a specialist couldn't fix. I ended up getting rid and making a big loss but it just dove me crackers. It was a good spec to - 1.8 S-Special with the extra bracing, Bilsteins and Torsen LSD.
However, the bub bit! Once I get a new house sorted, I'm having another!
Might be a mk2.5 as it would need to be as much road car as toy (yes, the wife).
Steve
I bought one 18months ago. It had an intermittent fault in the engine electronics that 3 local garages and a specialist couldn't fix. I ended up getting rid and making a big loss but it just dove me crackers. It was a good spec to - 1.8 S-Special with the extra bracing, Bilsteins and Torsen LSD.
However, the bub bit! Once I get a new house sorted, I'm having another!
Might be a mk2.5 as it would need to be as much road car as toy (yes, the wife).
Steve
Last edited by Steve vRS; 22 December 2009 at 08:00 PM.
22 December 2009, 10:35 PM
#22
I've got an old mk1 mx5 with some uprated suspension bits (not sure what, as I haven't even looked underneath, but allegedly they're "apex springs" and fresh shocks).
It's brilliant fun, much more fun than the subaru, so I definitely think you should go for the mx-5. Mine hasn't been on track yet, but I'm hoping to take it out towards the end of the 2010 season as it's undergoing some restoration.
It's brilliant fun, much more fun than the subaru, so I definitely think you should go for the mx-5. Mine hasn't been on track yet, but I'm hoping to take it out towards the end of the 2010 season as it's undergoing some restoration.
23 December 2009, 12:27 AM
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It had an intermittent fault in the engine electronics that 3 local garages and a specialist couldn't fix. I ended up getting rid and making a big loss but it just dove me crackers. It was a good spec to - 1.8 S-Special with the extra bracing, Bilsteins and Torsen LSD.
If you want to experience how good an MX5 can be you're welcome to come out for some laps in one of ours... just PM me.
HTH
Simon
23 December 2009, 04:50 PM
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23 December 2009, 11:30 PM
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Cheers
R
24 December 2009, 07:10 AM
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I think Davyboy's post earlier summed it up well.
Steve
24 December 2009, 07:18 AM
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Yeah I'm pretty much set on the 5 now - hopefully going to look at a couple over Christmas/New Year - standard 1.8's and a supercharged one and a turbo'd one.
Cheers
R
Cheers
R
27 December 2009, 08:11 AM
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Charade GTti can make a killer track car, weith very little and very robust engine. Easy to tune to 130-150bhp and will be very quick.
I know of one MOT failure needs some welding on the arches for not much at all. Strip out interior, replaces bushes and fit braided brake hoses. Friend of mine does a bit disk conversion to help the breaking further. A well set up one can be very rapid.
Here a clip of one going round Brands and yes it does overtake M3s and the guy the owned it built track M3s for a living
YouTube - Matt Smiths Daihatsu Charade GTti going round Brands Hatch
AllanB
I know of one MOT failure needs some welding on the arches for not much at all. Strip out interior, replaces bushes and fit braided brake hoses. Friend of mine does a bit disk conversion to help the breaking further. A well set up one can be very rapid.
Here a clip of one going round Brands and yes it does overtake M3s and the guy the owned it built track M3s for a living
YouTube - Matt Smiths Daihatsu Charade GTti going round Brands Hatch
AllanB
27 December 2009, 09:15 AM
#30
106 GTi???? Saw one for sale the otherday for 2,5k o.n.o and it was already set up for trackdays, stripped and caged and had a few mods running around 150bhp and weighing 900kg, so a great power to weight. Handling on these cars also gives you that proper go-kart feeling, and because its a peugeot parts are cheap and there exactly the same parts as the citreon saxo VTS so there's plenty of parts in the scrap yards etc.
Other then that maybe a Saxo VTS, as there less desireble then the 106 Gti and near enough the same car, there are a few on pistonheads for 700-1500 quid!!!!
Other then that maybe a Saxo VTS, as there less desireble then the 106 Gti and near enough the same car, there are a few on pistonheads for 700-1500 quid!!!!