Stuart Taylor

Has anyone tried one of these especially scooby owners as I am very interested to see how they perform in the mid range against a scooby. I know the 0-60 times are way off but I have heard they pack an almight punch in the mid range.

Stuart

NumptyScrub

Diesels tend to have great torque, but are power limited by the available rev range (normally redline around 4.5-5k rpm).

I have a Passat TDi, and it pulls nicely from 2k through to 4k, but just doesn't compare to a petrol turbo as far as grin factor goes.

Arrange a test drive at a VW garage, it'll be the best way to check the performance for yourself.

Derek

PS Although they have good torque, I wouldn't think it's a patch on the scoob, even in midrange.

lpitt

Doesn't keep up with a Scooby in mid-range buy will slaughter most hot-hatches if driven properly.

I test drove one on the same day as the CTR, the CTR won me over but it was pretty close in the end. (Basically the Golf didn't have the handling or range I was after)

Laurence

FreeT

Seen some figures of 0-60 in 7.3 secs not bad especially for a diesel but cant believe it, manufacturers are more like 8.7 secs. The manufacturers realise the fact that they dont rev highly and this isnt always noticable in test figures ie. 30-50 and 50-70 which flatter the speed of the cars in gear acceleration, and is pretty much on par with range topping petrols but what happens after these limits is hidden until you look at 0-60 and especially 0-100 times - this is where the real truth comes out.

Even a 330D (possibly best / fastest diesel around) with fast in gear times takes well over 20 seconds to get to 100, most petrol cars with around the same power will be the same amount less than 100. Doesnt sound much but think of how far you travell at 100mph and then how far ahead on the raod in 6 seconds difference. However this isnt real driving environment and in reality much closer on the road - untill a lenghthy race increasing speeds of more than 40 mph take place. (ie 30 - 70 or 50 - 90 ).

I'm waffling now - probably doesnt gelp you with the golf 150, although i have seen an article comparing the civic type r with the gt tdi 150. civic is more fun beter / handling and hard work to keep on limit - the golf is easy drive and keep on limit / more realxed journey and not as rewarding to listen too either.

Good luck in your choice.

RON

I ve got a mate with one, I had ago and I would say they're a great car, great mid range, it doesn't seem to matter what gear you're in, as long as you don't run out of revs, it'll go like the wind!
Oh, and it's blooby economical too!
Ron

Steve Perriam

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=72989

take a look in this thread m8. this quextion was asked not that long ago.

i thoroughly enjoyed my couple of days in it.

brilliant in any gear at almost any revs. didnt seem to notice running out of revs at 4.5k either.

not a match for my scoob by any means but the pretrol hot hatch brigade had better watch out. 0-60 is 8.6sec but its in gear acceleration was amazing.

try one.

steve

Stuart Taylor

Thanks for the comments
Very interesting, i'll have to go for a test drive

Stuart

NumptyScrub

My Passat (1.9 TDi 110bhp) redlines at 4500 (haven't hit the limiter though). Some diesels go further up the range, depends on the block and map more than anything.

Dunno about the new 150bhp PD block, never been in one so never seen the tacho. However, unless it goes to 7k rpm, the gears will be longer than the scoobs, which will affect "absolute" in-gear performance, but bears little relation to the seat-of-the-pants meter

One thing I can't complain about is the economy of a diesel, they barely sip fuel unless you cane them permanently.

Derek

johnr

Stuart,

If you get a test drive you'll have to let me know where from. Quote from the nice man at Dovercourt Bristol: 'If you want to drive one sir, you'll have to buy one!' Well I may just be interested in doing that if someone there will actually return calls and give me the information I ask for and maybe be a little more constructive about arranging a test drive. Obviously they don't feel any need to sell any cars at the moment.

John

NBW

I went to my local VW dealer yesterday, and enquired about test driving a PD150 and 1.8T 'back-to-back' to compare.

Salesman said they had neither available as demonstrators, but he would phone round and see what he could do. Called back this morning, test drive of both cars on Saturday

He also quoted 12 weeks to get a PD150 from the factory. Personally I think this is a bit optimistic from what I've heard, and anyway I'd be prepared to wait longer for an import if the price was right....

Cheers
Tim

NBW

Result of test drive(s) posted here

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...threadid=84064

Baja

I read somewhere that it's got more torque than an BMW M coupe!

FreeT

If you do a simple super chips upgrade it will produce more like 180bhp and 310+lb/ft - wowzer big upgrade for little money. Shame its not 4wd and better chasis.

Jon Jonzz

Audi do the A3 130TDI with quattro. Unlikely to be an A3 150 TDI, as engine is not smooth enough for Audi owners.

NBW

I just read (in the VW brochure) that the PD150 is 1388kg (both 3 & 5 door) vs 1226kg for the PD130 3 door. Surely some mistake?

That would give the PD150 108bhp/tonne, and the PD130 106bhp/tonne.

This can't be right, can it? Hardly seems worth the extra 1400 quid for the 150, does it?

I know they've beefed up the engine in the 150, but 162 kilos ?

Tim

FreeT

You mean VW have fudged the figures? - getaway, they wouldn't do a thing like that would they?

Several upgraded parts in the engine and gearbox, but i wouldnt think that would add up, maybe they forgot to tell the driver to get out before weighing it.

NBW

It's bizarre - the weight's are quoted 'including driver' and get this:

GTi TDI 110bhp = 1206kg
S/SE TDI PD 100bhp = 1360kg
GTi PD130 = 1226kg
GTi PD150 = 1388kg

If these are correct (and I seriously doubt it), VW marketing have missing a trick here - they should be calling the 110 & 130bhp cars the 'Club Sport' versions

Tim

Steve Perriam

dunno wot the right weight figures are but the 150 is sooo muich faster than the 130.

130 is quick.,

150 simply flies, in any gear at any speed.

TRIGGER

Coming off a roundabout recently one of these Golfs flew away from my Sti - I was in the wrong gear but still it amazed me. Next roundabout I went passed fairly easily, but he stayed close for a while until his rev range killed it and he fell right back. The wife couldnt believe how close he had been for that short mid range bit though.

Steve Perriam

yep they are amazingly quick.

will embarrass a lot of hot hatches etc

Nick L

Hmmmm - In a straight line maybe. When I test drove one it didn't fill me with confidence round corners. The traction control light flashing on and off like a mad thing (when it was turned on) - Although having said all that I am still tossing up between that and the CTR.

NBW

Nick,

I agree the Golf doesn't feel any where near as good as a Scooby (or a CTR, I imagine) round the bends, but then we shouldn't expect it to be.

With sports suspension (standard on PD150) and 17" wheels they are supposed to be OK.

Nevertheless I am convinced that A to B a Golf PD can be a very quick car. There are some situations (unexpected overtake opportunity, a bend that turns out to be tighter than expected), where the diesel's lugging ability is a real world advantage.

I'm also not convinced that the 150 is significantly quicker than the 130 (I'm talking real world here, not 0-60 or 0-100, which are pretty much irrelevent for road driving IMHO). According to VW the 150 is a lot heavier, and Diesel Car have the 130 down as quicker from 30-50 than the 150, albeit by 0.1s. Mind you the 150 does have a staggering extra 9ft/lbs (<4%) more torque . IMHO £1400 difference in price seems steep.

Anyway, lets see whether I still think that after I test drive the 130 on Saturday.

Cheers
Tim

frisby

The 130's are a good package - I've got one, and for a diesel, performance is great, with good mpg (55mpg) plenty of spec (climate, cruise control, metallic, rain sensor CD, sports seats etc) as standard as I imported one through my company and saved a packet. Also added bigger alloys and sports suspension to sharpen up the handling.

In real world driving, they give so many supposed hot hatched a good whipping. Its so funny watching boy racers lining you up through a big roundabout only to be left in the distance as you use all that torque. There face at the next opportuninty is a picture when they see the tdi badge!!!!!!

laters

stu

Steve Perriam

nick - i agree there a bit m8. a bit scary they are esp in the wet. the traction lite was forever coming on and i was not trying to do anything silly !!! its ultimately wot stopped me getting one. too much power maybe for the chassis etc. Never driven a CTR but would like to try one.....calling Laurence P when r u next down my way !!

Tim - i must say i felt the 150 2 b far quicker..maybe i'd forgotten how quick the 130 was as my 2 test drives were 3weeks or so apart ?

Stu - i found that adding that lot made the golf an expensive option ! even more so for the 130 that does not have the sports suspension as standard...and the same size wheels (i think?)

oh and the 150 is not badged diesel / td etc etc but simply GTi !

NBW

ChrisB,

Not much hope getting a secondhand PD130 yet, even less a 150, from what I've seen.

Steve,

I've been told that the 130 engine is a bit smoother than the 150, may be that makes it feel relatively slow? I spent a couple of hours as a passenger in an A3 TDi (110bhp) earlier this week and it was notably less diesel sounding, both inside and out. May be not a fair comparison though, as it's a different engine. Looking forward to my drive tomorrow.

As for value, I'm looking at possibly is a PD130, black colour concept (£1900), sports suspension (£150) and Xenon headlights (£700). That looks expensive, until you realise that the colour concept pack (not available on the 150) gets you leather Recaro's, aluminium dash trim and 16" wheels, all for less than the cost of leather Recaro's on the 150 (although this has 16" wheels as standard). I personally prefer the ali trim over the wood in the PD150, although both are better than standard unremitting black!

I'm planning to ask the dealer what he'll give me back on the 16" wheels and tyres (I figure what, £400?), and then buy dealer-fit 17" wheels (£600), possibly supplying my own tyres (£500?).

I figure this will get me 4 17" wheels & tyres for £700. as a factory option on the PD130 the cost of these is a whopping £1400 (includes sport suspension though), so I reckon I'll be around £500 better off to go this way.

Only other option I'm considering is ESP. I've heard that that this may become standard soon, but anyone got any thoughts on whether it's worthwhile paying for it or not?

Cheers
Tim

NBW

Test drive of the PD130 was a bit inconclusive, as when I got there it was a Golf estate SE 130PD, not a Bora Sport. Not a fair comparison at all, engine did seem a bit smoother, but then it had done more miles and the handling (or lack of) really put me off driving it hard. It definitely felt slower then the PD150 I drove last week.

Dealer has promised to get a Golf 130PD for next week.

Confirmed all Golf GTi's built from week 18 will have ESP as standard, but price goes up £140 as well.

Also he told me about VW's fixed price maintenance, basically for £36/month (PD130, 16K miles pa), I get all my servicing, maintenance (e.g. brake pads, bulbs) and tyres

Seems like an incredible deal, especially when if you have Xenon lights, as replacement bulbs are bloody expensive!

I've worked out the total cost per mile, and even with £3K options, this should cost me 36p per mile. This is everything including fuel

Cheers
Tim

MartinM

Baja

(anorak mode on)
Close, but not more according to EVO - M Coupe has 258lbft @ 3250 rpm, while PD 150 has 235lbft @ 1900 rpm

The P1 has allegedly 260 lbft @ 4000 rpm, so its not far off that either.
(anorak mode off)

My (company car) PD 150 arrives (Thanks, Gordon )in three weeks or so... will be interesting to compare. I'll report back.

Martin

[Edited by MartinM - 4/6/2002 8:44:52 PM]

ChrisB

Top info Tim - I look forward to reading your thoughts on the 130 after the weekend.

Are there many 130s about 2nd hand yet? I guess the 150s are still new enough to be ex-demo only?

[Edited by ChrisB - 4/11/2002 3:00:14 PM]