BOB.T

A bit more fuel for the fire

Autocar Videos - Autocar.co.uk

*Runs away*



(DW, you up for Buttertubs some time?)

bugeyeandy

I'd believe what they said more easily if Sutcliffe did a back to back run along that road. As it is Autocar have a massive Focus RS bias that could be said to have something to do with them getting their car earlier than most genuine buyers.

It's an amazing bit of kit for the money but it still looks crap to me - no lasting style just stuck on piano black tat.

BOB.T

I really like the looks apart from the rear wing, I think that's crap and out of place!

I am an ST owner tough...and mine's blue!

madisonmonkey

iTrader: (4)

The piece of on-board footage at 2mins30secs tells me all I need to know about this "comparison"

stilover

Everything is relevent though.

A well driven 106GTI would keep up with a Focus RS on certain roads.

Love the way the GT-R accelerates away from the Focus out of that tight corner.

Dream Weaver

That video pretty much sums up what I've been saying all along about the ST and the RS, that any AWD advantage simply does not matter in the real world. Yes, all the haters will keep harping on about it on this forum, but it makes no scrap of difference.

Every RS thread so far has had people asking what would happen on real roads, and this video shows you all - Bob and I live near those real roads in that video (Buttertubs) and I have always said the ST is fine, and hence the RS will be fine.

My ST will very shortly be pumping out 310bhp and 350 ft/lbs of torque and I'm not worried about it in the slightest, it will provide a huge amount of fun and not once will I be wishing I had something else with AWD.

As for the FRS looks - a bloke near me has just had delivery of his white FRS and it looks superb, much cleaner and more stylish than the press photos can ever get across.

Bob, yes I'm up for Buttertubs at some point - just need to get my new IC fitted once I can find a way of getting the trolley jack under the car!!

scoobberdoo

Not sure my friend what your definition of "real world" is, but I also live in the UK which is the "real world" to me, and it appears to me that it's raining at least 50% of the time. No 2wd car I've ever driven, regardless of power output has ever given the type of grip and security of awd in all conditions.

This has nothing to do with haters, to most of us here it's a fact that there is a distinct advantage with awd in our "real world".

I won't dispute that a 2wd in dry conditions can go round a corner just as fast as awd, but I beg to differ that a 2wd can accelerate out of he apex as much/quickly as awd. (see Audi S4 -awd v M3 - 2wd on TG - dry track)

No dispute over how good the FRS or ST is, nor am I disputing fun factors, just that your argument in the "real world" doesn't stack up - for me anyway.

To say "it makes no scrap of difference" is just nonsense.

Dream Weaver

Well in my real world I don't drive quickly when its wet, what's the point?

Also the video was saying the same thing about "real world" driving, hence why I made the same point.

scoobberdoo

Best just to say then "in the dry"!! Your definition of real world, I think, is different to most of us, as wet weather driving is not just about driving quickly. The real world includes still includes, exiting junctions when wet, overtaking still happens when wet and snow plays its part for some of us too. Some of do require to drive "briskly" when wet. All of which are better executed in 4wd.

IMHO of course.

chris singleton

Pah, forget fwd, awd or 4wd, we all know that rwd is king

Friend of mine picks up his white Focus RS on Monday, I'm looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about

Chris

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

isnt the FRS a fwd then???

chris singleton

I believe it is

GC8WRX

Thats cos you have a fwd car, i go just a quickly in the wet as i do in the dry, and i dont mean speeding before i get flamed, i just mean i have a 4wd car so rain doesnt slow me down anywhere near as much as a fwd car!

All the quick fwd cars around here can be seen spinning their front wheels for fun in the wet, they cant put the power down!

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Sorry i thought when you put rwd is king you were suggesting the frs was a rwd car

P1Fanatic

Its not all about traction/acceleration in the wet though is it - braking is the biggest factor and Id be another that reigns my speeds in when its raining.

As for the vid comparison Id say that those roads arent real world for most of us. Narrow, tight corners etc. Yes the roads you might go on for a meet or on hols but not the kind of place you spend most of your driving time. The GTR's size & weight was a severe disadvantage in that test which was a tad bias imho.

Its good to see that even during these green eco times that manufacturers are still churning out these performances cars.

Simon

rabbos

The GTR is also quite a large car to be punting down those narrow stone walled roads. Any hatch or other smallish car would probably be much less intimidating down those roads following the GTR. The nissan leaves the FRS at the merest sniff of a open road.

Such a bizarre comparison regardless. Who in their right mind would buy an FRS over a GTR?

Mal K

A person who can't find the extra £35k.....Like me!

stilover

Any news on yours yet Mal?

Mal K

None at all. Welcome to Ford Customer service!
The way it's going I may as well wait and get it registered in Sept. Holliways in Hartlepool have a green one in the showroom, looks awesome.

Have you not made your mind up yet?

stilover

Sort of had the decision made up for me. The credit crunch has affected our company. Jobs that were a sure fire thing, have now been cancelled or delayed.

All Government back contracts. Schools, Colleges, HNS, & MOD work.

We're now fighting for the jobs to far down the line to be stopped. So is every other Roofing contractor.

Just can't take the risk. Could be out of a job by the end of the year.

rabbos

I meant that if you had the ~£60k for one car, you wouldn't be going down to your local Ford stealer. It kind of seems obvious that you wouldn't buy a GTR if you didn't have the cash lol

Dream Weaver

No, it's because I don't want to lock up and crash into someone, or lose it on a diesel covered bend and kill another person.

Anyone that doesn't slow down in the wet because "they have AWD" is a bellend, sorry.

As for real world roads, I live not far from the road in that vid and whenever we go North to the NE or lakes etc we have to use those roads so I use them all the time!!

martwrxsl

Whatever anybody says I doubt you'll listen to them. The rs is a good car but it's built on a budget. The revo knuckle is not new techology because they have used it on renaults for years. All this bollox that fwd is better than awd is nonsense. The facts are simple Ford couldn't afford to develope an awd system.

bluenosewrx

iTrader: (2)

What a shi* "real world" test, that type of road may be real world for approx 10% of the population but not us all, and to say that he would pick the FRS over the GTR he must be mental.

There is no arguing with DW mate, he is totally biased and will not accept ANY critisism of his beloved Ford,lol

mac

rabbos

Exactly - the GTR was designed from the ground up to be a sports/GT car with 911 turbo rivalling or greater ability.

The RS brief went something like this:

"Right lads, we need a shark, not a f*cking dolphin or whatever. The punters'll lap that right up. They'll buy anything we tell them.

I'm off to dream up fancy names for our competitors engineering. In the meantime, get that ST and make it go quicker, stick an RS badge and some vents on it.

FFS It better not cost more than an ST to build. Got that?

oh and while you're at it use up some of these XC90 brakes that are cluttering up the car park."

Fabioso

I can see both sides of this argument. I think both views have merit, its very much about the driver and what they do or want out of a car.

I'd like to drive both types back to back and see what the difference is. From what I've read I'd put money on me not being able to extract a discernible benefit out of an AWD motor vs say the FRS with my driving skill and bravery (or lack of) on the road in the real world (well my real world ).

john banks

By the same token there is little difference between a 123 BHP Ford Puma even driven by me, and the various machinery with 2 to 3 times the power that I could stick to in the Twisties(TM). Or the Impreza Sport that embarrassed my E46 M3 in the wet on a road I do know... he was flat out virtually everywhere, I was fighting the vertical body movements and the tail was sliding on 1/4 throttle.

Dream Weaver

You will never ever see me anywhere say that FWD is better than AWD, all I ever say is that FWD is as good as AWD for me as an individual.

You are so wrong, the interior rattles can be annoying, paintwork is a bit too thin, panel fit isn't great but its a lot of fun to drive, very capable and brilliant at what it does FOR ME PERSONALLY - there would be no advantage going from here to Richmond if I took a 1000bhp 4WD supercar over my ST.

It's also my first Ford, have always been a Pug man before so I'm hardy brand loyal!!

Nothing against any other marques at all or AWD (apart from being a bit boring and nannying), I have a Honda as well as the ST, and will soon have an Audi/BMW or something else as well. I love Scoobs, or I did until the latest horror.

As for real world, maybe you live somewhere which is flat, but as I say I live on the fringe of the road in that vid and the roads round here are a lot like that - look on a map of the UK in the Yorkshire Dales and anywhere North of Manchester, it's all like that, heaven!!

I would also pick the FRS over the GTR as the horror stories and running costs for the GTR are terrible, you could almost buy an FRS for the cost of a replacement GTR gearbox!!

Hooray, finally a couple of users that understand the point I'm making, and the video is making and aren't blinkered by their alegiance to the Subaru marque or AWD.

Talking of Puma's, I was recently just near the road in the above vid, going past the Ribblehead Viaduct up to an RS meeting in Richmond and in the far distance in front of me I could see a black car making progress - I decided to catch them up, and it was a middle aged couple in a T reg Puma.

I caught them up easily enough, but this chap was a better driver than me so even though I had almost 2.5 times the power and a better chassis there would have been no point in overtaking him.

We stuck together for approx 50 miles and the driving standards from both of us were excellent. I have no doubt he could have left me though as his cornering speed and ability, and bravery was so much better than mine.

This is the point.

RETRO_AL

I need to have a go on that road!

evilpob

GTR everytime i affraid!!