mozzaITA

Such a biased view how much did they get for doing that review i wonder?. Dont get me wrong i love both cars and ill have either anyday of the week but its a bit chalk and chease.

I did own an impreza until recently for 2 years and yes 4wd is importtant, grip traction etc but the majourity of time i dont think on the road you exploit all the 4wd potential anh yes a highly powered fwd car is more than sufficient.

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

i agree with all the above. both side. Personally id prefer to be hanging the **** out on the exit of a corner than understeering to the edge

on my real worlds, my focus doesnt stand a chance against my scoob in the dry or the wet, and certainly the scoob is more fun to drive. The focus is awesome to drive to but it just isnt the same

as some have said, the scoob is very good in the wet. especially pulling onto roundabouts, dont have to worry about loosing traction. you just go

BOB.T

Al, I'm only at Cowling, if you want a run up there give me a shout, I'm up for it...DW will be up for it, he is a Lancastrian though...

Cmaster, if your Focus is understeering to the edge of the road, you're doing it wrong! Mine doesn't and I don't hang about!

john banks

Last Focus I had understeered all the way to the edge of a road and through a brick wall at 60 mph and rolled. I think I was doing it wrong

BOB.T

Yup! *nods*

ScoobyNudge

iTrader: (4)

I do believe in the suabru impreza manual it says in wet/adverse conditions drive like front wheel drive! lol

As nice as the frs is lets be real you cant compare these two cars they are chalk and cheese

the jap cars are built for jap market and designe for their conditions and the ford is designed for our market /conditions

tbh more than 280bhp and high levels of tourque in fwd car without some lsd is suicide imo

Prasius

iTrader: (1)

Another stupid and pointless Motoring press "comparison". What next? Fiat 500 Abarth against Zonda C12S? Maybe we can just "race" a Ferrari F40 around your average large town/city on a Saturday afternoon and declare a Citroen C1 as vastly superior because it gets everywhere just as quick and you can buy 260 of them for the price of the F40?

What utter spanner of an editor even thinks such comparisons are worthwhile?

Car of the Year comparisons such as Evo write are a bit different - as the individual cars are considered against how good they are against the bracket/price they fit in, and then compared to the others in some kind of context.

"Real World" motoring doesn't even factor when talking about buying something like a GTR.... Hell, if you've bought pretty much any performance car - "real world" motoring isn't of any real importance to you. If it was, you'd just buy a nice little sensible, cheap to run, motor. You can only drive to the speed limits, traffic conditions.. etc etc etc..

Tests like this are just... Dumb. I struggle to believe a car enthusiast would say they'd have a FRS over a GTR if money was no object.

ScoobyNudge

iTrader: (4)

HERE HERE!!!

Japorter

autocar do make me laugh tho. Putting a GTR against a RS just like putting a STi against a 1.2 corsa. in the real world I will have the corsa tho...haha

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

My point being if you power out of a corner you will only be getting balance/understeer. Same as any FWD car even touring cars. If you apply too much power and expect it to steer you will inevetibly get understeer. Even if you dont apply too much you will still feel it pushing wide in a boring manner.

I much prefer the power out on the scoob, when the back end as a twitch. Turn into a corner and the focus is brilliant, really fun to give it a flick. In contrast the scoob is more fun out of the corner.

Lets face it, on the public roads its not about speed, its about fun. And for me, the AWD wins.

Mitchy260

Is anyone else unimpressed with the new FRS's performance figures? Is it me or have Ford made a big co*k up with this car in terms of its straight line performance?

0-100 in 13.9s tested by Autocar and now 14.2s tested by Evo. Evo topped the car out at 148mph aswell, far short of the 163mph claims by Ford.

Average of 14s is surely not a good benchmark to be setting, nor 1 they should be proud of. We have the STI hatch quite a bit quicker than that, and the Audi S3 with 265bhp which has been around the last couple of years manages 0-100 in 13.5s. Away from hatchbacks, the TTS with 268bhp manages the same 0-100mph sprint in 12.5s.

Not the 'monster' it's made out to be then, this should have been made to be a sub 12sec car no probs.

chris singleton

A friend of mine has just popped round in his white focus rs, picked it up today.

Now, I'm about as far away from a ford fan as you can get but I've got to admit, it's a stunning looking car. Only had time for a quick spin up the road but seemed plenty quick enough and sounded superb for a standard car. I was very impressed

Dream Weaver

Why on earth is the 0-100 time important to you? Speed limit is 70 in the UK and going any quicker just isn't worth it.

bugeyeandy

0-100 is always a good indicator of mid range pace. On your second point i'd be very surprised if your ST has never exceeded 70mph. Many RS's will also be destined for use on trackdays.

rabbos

Its possible the focus is more economical than the Nissan

Mitchy260

Strange reply on a performance car forum Let's not get into the politics of owning fast cars otherwise we would all be driving little 1.1 engined cars that are all capable of hitting 70mph

0-100 to me is far more important than 0-60 as it gives an indication of its mid range grunt, which let's be honest is what you use on a motorwayIf i was splashing out £25k on a FRS, i would at least expect to come up behind a 265bhp Audi S3 and keep pace with it. Yes all boy racer stuff, but to be fair you need to be in that kind of category anyway to be looking at a FRS. I suspect the vast majority will be buying this car for its performance and so far the reviews of its straight line performance have not been too glowing. The STI hatch would show it a clean pair of heels for example. 0-100 in 14secs was being achieved 5-6yrs ago from hatches (147GTA), this should have moved on from here. Topped out at 148mph which is someway down on Fords 163 claims aswell.

All in my opinion of course, im sure it's a hoot round the track though and a lot more advanced than other FWD hatches, not everyone is into straight line.

rabbos

Ford have done a decent marketing/hype job though.

It will be interesting to see if they shift them all at £25k

alloy

Food for thought this thread........however i know what car will be sitting in my garage in 8 weeks time, and it sure wont have a blue oval on the boot lid!!!

1uke

iTrader: (2)

awd is the way to go if you want a decent powerful road car in our climate! I have had a few fast front wheel drive and rear wheel and my subaru even tho down on power compared to other cars I have had, I can plant the power and not worry if its going to chuck me of the road or straight on at a corner etc. If I lived in alot drier climate then I would buy a Beautiful Mazda Rx7 again

nisr227

I'm glad someone else noticed the 14.2sec time evo magazine got to 100mph, its quick, but even taken into account that the FRS holds some power back in the first two gears, its 60-100 in 8.3secs is not 301bhp quick, even with 1480kg (and thats only 1 and bit seconds quicker than a 197bhp ctr with over 100bhp less, which does 60-100 in 9.5secs). I am interested to see some on dynos becuase I think those performance figures, plus the fact evo couldn't get anywhere near its quoted top speed, suggest closer to 270-275bhp. Maybe put one up against an ST Mountune on the road and in a test?

Anyway, back to the video, as said before, whats the point in comparing these too on these roads on a performance level... your more likely to get these cars against each other on a wider B or A roads. Yes I agree that the FRS could be, if not have more, fun factor, but actual performance comparision is pointless.

Thats like seeing tests of Supercars against hatches around kart tracks, the bigger car is always going to struggle. But 2.35mins into that video shows you that a smidge of a staight and the GTR rockets away from the FRS. Bascially taken those cars to the demanding roads in North Wales and the FRS wouldn't stand a chance.

Of course its also how well you know the road, bravery, stupidity, and actual driving skills that makes a big difference on twistie roads.

The FRS is a great car, I'd love one, as well as a Renault R26R for what both companies have achieved with the outlay on a fwd hot hatch, and in the dry they are awesome, but if running costs weren't an option I'd take a GTR (or second had dms tuned 997t or even cheaper dms 996t) anyday no comparision.

Put that FRS on the same reduced road against cars that can handle it well (smaller than the GTR) like the Evo9 FQ360 in all conditions and it would be a different story (more so in a modified one but we won't get into that), or against a Caterham R500 in the dry it would be just laughable.

Autocar did a test a few years back where they closed a road (think it was Isle of Man) in the dry, and even though cars like the Evos were quick, when they came to the straights the then supercars of the 996T and Noble 400 just disapeared, proven that twistie roads still have straights now and again, and its power and the way its puts it down is everything.

FRS looks damn good fun though, it will, without doubt, win the real work evo (magazine) car of they year, even with half the year still left! And an excellent contender for winning the whole thing against supercars, as a drivers car. Can't wait to test drive it one day.

ProdriveSTI

Just to let you know one has already been dyno with only del miles on the clock & it made 297bhp and 313lbft at the flywheel

jeremy

I was one of the people who commented on that test on their site...I wrote:

"Re: autocar.tv: Ford Focus RS vs Nissan GTR
Apr 29, 2009 6:31 PM

In general a great test. Not to mention a great idea. Congrads on doing it, giving the starving public something to seriously dream about!

Its funny, this issue about confidence when you push it on challenging roads. You guys rarely discuss this issue in most of your road tests- esp not like you just did here in this video! Indeed isn't it ironic that Mr. sutters has gone on and on about the GT-R being peerless on any road versus any car. I believe it was crowned b-road champion many months back. And now we are told its too big to place on a b-road! Wasn't this always the truth??

Come on guys either it is or it isn't? Which is it really? Its always hard to read/view autocar articles/videos like this; we always first hear that X new supercar is sublime an untouchable only to eventually be told well "not so much really".

Last, Mr. Prior did a back to back with the Megane and Cayman a few months back, which again was a good idea- though he gave very few details of any real difference in the handling of the two- (read mid-engine/rear drive vs front/front not the same!), indeed it would be interesting to hear how both (it would seem) would stay with this Focus, not to mention the Impreza sti and Lancer. And just as importantly how their unique handling styles would contrast!! Not just their both fast, but this one feels that bit more special.

So reading between the lines it would seem that the test, good idea as it was, was fated from the start! The Skyline is the better handling car on all but super narrow roads as Mr, Sutters has said all along; however its just simply too big to fit on thin roads...but shouldn't we all have known that from the start?

So lets have some more beef to the articles in future sirs (you are the most expensive auto magazine in the world (month to month)) , more of this context as you give us now. Context not just to bring fanfare to a great new car like the RS, but to all the great cars you test, lest we continue to think that as well Ferrari's newly modded 599 is the 911GT-2 killer we just heard it was from you!! JL "

AND got a garbage response from its writer, Frankel. I later asked him why if they said the traction control was slowing the SKyline down (as they said from the drive story) didn't they wait for it.....TURN IT OFF...to which I got no reply. Strange manipulative people over there. JL

jeremy

But REALLY I think one of the more important points in all this conversation is that
while cars like the GT_R are great- well built, advanced: materials, brakes, engines,
aerodynamics; indeed they are TOO BIG. Could we imagine if Nissan or Porsche built a hot hatch or small compact car like the original M3. Now that would be a dream car to most true enthusiasts.

There really does seem to be a major need among the rich/powerful for size. People feel better about themselves if there car is a big shiny bruiser.

One need not look any further than rallying to prove that we don't need such hulking cars, so lets hope one day someone will build a lightweight smaller yet more practical and roomier GT-R. That would be something. JL

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I agree. Having done back to back driving on similar roads as the video in a variety of different cars, one thing became very clear:

Weight and size.

When the end came where the guy asked which car he'd prefer to drive back over the pass, my thought was neither; Both are flawed. I'd rather take a suitably modernised Lotus Elan S4 coupe and would find that much more entertaining than both.

I belive my Golf R32 is so close in many ways yet so far: It ticks alot of boxes, but on the other hand its flawed in many others. Like most modern cars its too heavy. Anything "hatchback" sized thats over 1300kg is overweight IMO (and that would include the 1467kg Focus RS - compare that to the 1360kg of an Escort Cosworth, bearing in mind that had a cast iron engine block, and a crude drivetrain weighing it down). And like many modern cars the feel through the controls, although good is still too indirect. Power delivery is sublime, but its hampered by the car's weight; as is the handling, the brakes, comfort, etc.

There is a niche in the market crying out for such a car; large capacity, torquey, free reving normally aspirated engine, in a lightweight compact, rigid and practical bodyshell:

What I'm asking for is:
The size and practicality of a Focus
The power delivery, sound and throttle response of R32 Golf engine (well, the Passat R36 would be better )
The weight of a Clio 172
The feel and feedback of a Lotus or Porsche with handling to match
RWD or rear biased/adjustable AWD
Desirable image without being too vulgar
Not chip your teeth on a bumpy B-road
And not cost the earth


Now, I'm sure someone will crop up saying "BMW!!" Nope, too heavy, questionable pricing, with arguably choppy handling and debatable looks. Like the R32, a 130 or 135 ticks alot of boxes but leaves alot of others empty.

Now, which market survey do I need to take part in the get the above?

jeremy

"What I'm asking for is:
The size and practicality of a Focus
The power delivery, sound and throttle response of R32 Golf engine (well, the Passat R36 would be better )
The weight of a Clio 172
The feel and feedback of a Lotus or Porsche with handling to match
RWD or rear biased/adjustable AWD
Desirable image without being too vulgar
Not chip your teeth on a bumpy B-road
And not cost the earth"

Bang ON! Now why is it the journalists- (those who cover the industry, report on the strengths/weakness's of cars) CANNOT ask for such a thing.

Answer- sorry to get all conspiratorial on you guys: they (Autocar, car and driver, evo etc) truly do not want to upset the car makers and their ads and press trips and long term rides. --Same as most other industries I'm afraid.

Now if we could just find a really rich dude who likes hot hatches and isn't a show off.

Japorter

Good piece of writing there Jeremy.

Heretik

iTrader: (1)

Fix On Roadside Daily - Or GTR? ummmm - such a hard choice!!??

samcowrx

What a strange comparison?, a piece of plastic against a true sports car, i have no doubts how good that RS is, awesome in fact, but to compare it to a car that is well out of its league in many ways is odd, even when in a 'real world' situation as they put it, i cant help wondering who Ford gave a lot of money too to make that vid, Nissan were obviously not to worried about the competition.

MrLouKnee

the ford Focus RS is such an advance of technology that all WRC cars will now be front wheel drive only






















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