subaruturbo_18

I'm tempted to get one of these as a track car rather than ploughing money into my impreza.

Does anyone have one? are they any good with a decent set of coilovers, striped out and caged?

also can anyone explain the mi16 to me? i know its a 1.9 engine but why do people put them into GTi's if you can already get 1.9 ones? or is the standard 205 1.9 GTi engine an mi16.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

MI16 lumps are 16 valves, the trend seems to be going toward the GTI6 lumps now or the newer 2.2 GTI Which will be slotted into mine when I find a suitably priced set up.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The MI16 engine was a 16v engine fitted to the likes of the Citroen BX 16v, the 306 S16, 405 MI16 (hence the name) and a very rare 309 16v (france only) which came in 2 forms, a 1.9 160bhp and a 2ltr 155bhp.
The 1.9 was a nice fit, increase in power and torque, the 2ltr also fits quite nicely
If your going for a GTI for the track, a 1.6 may be better, only down sides are the drums on the rear, the gearbox (this is an upside btw) is a shorter ratio box that people transplant into the 1.9's for better acceleration, still finding a decent 1.9 is hard and they still cost alot for what they are.
They have the normal peugeot issues, its french and the build quality suffers because of it, they are very interesting to drive as they are easy to provoke with "lift off oversteer" partly down to the passive rear wheel steering, this also causes an issue on higher mileage cars where the rear beam which has the bearings in for these wears and you get play, the rear wheels come in on themselves and it ruins the handling of the car, it costs about 400 quid to put right.
Electrics suffer (especially doors as the interconnecting looms get brittle and break, causing lack of electric windows and none working central locking, common on virtually all pugs as they didnt really change the design).
In its day it was one quick hot hatch, not quite as quick but still very entertaining though look at its big brother, the 309 GTI, overlooked for the 205 but still a hoot and nearly as quick to drive

Tony

subaruturbo_18

Which model has a 2.2 engine? And do all three of those engines bolt straight into a 205 like the mi16 apparently does?

I can't stress how eager i am to start a project track toy.

subaruturbo_18

Cheers for the info Tony.

Why would you say that the 1.6 engine would be better for the track?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well most of the 1.9's are knackered so the better cars are now the 1.6's, its the gearbox your after really, 15bhp isnt actually that much with the sorter ratio gearbox
Now the only issue with the big 16v engines is overheating, they are in a tight spot and head gasket issues are not uncommon but if you are looking for a 1.9gti, it will cost you a fair bit more than at 1.6

Tony

GC8

The "Mi16" engine was fitted into the BX16v and the Mi16. The 309 GTI-16, the 306 Rallye/S16 and Xsara VTS (and late Citroen-suspended Mi16s!) use the later (inferior) 2,000cc engine. I wont bore you with the codes/differences as Ive posted that before on a similar thread.

Simon

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

The new 207 Gti I believe, I think the engine range is called EW or something like that, the fit, but with modified mounts, you will need a independant management system as well.

rossi_p

iTrader: (26)

I had a 205 Mi16 (1.9) with twin webbers, Peugeot sport cams, ported/flowed heads and inlet manifold work, lightened 7 balanced, group n exhaust, forged pistons/rods. Estimated at 220bhp.

It was also stripped, Omp 6 point roll cage, fixed seats, rebuilt 1.6 box with a longer final drive, rebuilt rear beam, Bilstein shocks and lowered springs. Bigger discs front and rear and went like absolute stink.

Other work too, but I honestly can't remember the full spec as it was a couple of years back.

It humbled cars like a 911's and M3's among others at Brands. At a place like Caldwell, I don't think much would have got away.

I'll see if I can find some pictures to post up....

I agree with Tony about overheating, they do run hot if you ever get caught in traffic. You can change the radiator for the 205 Turbo Diesel one, which apparently helps but I can't say first hand.

Don't be sucked in by the bigger 2.2. Bigger engine doesn't always mean better.

DES Developments have a good reputation for 205's. Do a google search.

I honestly don't think you can have more fun or smiles for your pounds..

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Is the 2.2 not the HDI engine? they run a 1.6ltr 175bhp twin scroll turbo engine in the GTI at the moment

Tony

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

It wwas suggested to me on a Pug forum (pssoc) supposed to be very rare but very good, it's the way i will go when I get started propely on mine I think.

rossi_p

iTrader: (26)

Here she is...









Miss this little car.... Only covered 12k miles after it was built.

I sold it as the missus hated it. She complained about climbing over the door bars and strapping into the harnesses. She also didn't like that it was noisy, bumpy and had no stereo.

Now I want to fit a cage to the Impreza...

subaruturbo_18

Hmm, some good info here, cheers guys.

I have seen a 1.6 gear box on eBay for about a ton, and I have seen mi16's for reasonable prices, I don't think overheating problems would be an issue as it would only be used on the track and driven to and from.

Does anyone know what work is required to put am mi16 in? Will it bolt straight in or do I need engine mount modifications?

Kev_turbo

Wrong, The 309GTI-16 uses the XU9J4 engine, the original Mi16. The later 2.0 Mi16 (first seen in the 1993 face lifted 405's and then used as the 306XSi engine) was not even in production when the 309 was phased out. I owned an original imported 309 GTi16.

The original Mi16 is an identical bottom end to the 1.9 8v engine making it an absolute doddle to fit to a 205. The problem is the last ones are in 1992 cars so they are really hard to find.

The engine in the 306 gti-6/Rallye and the Xsara VTS is a 163bhp engine (has not ever been in a factory Mi16) and totally changes the handling of the 205. The engine block is iron (vs alloy in the original Mi16) and this additional weight so far forward plays havoc with the oversteer.

Kev

Kev_turbo

Fitting an original Mi16 is a doddle, did one late last year in a long day (2 of us) including removing the mi16 from the 405!! This was from driving the 205 to my house as an 8v and driving it away as a 16v wired up the works. Minor mod needed to bottom engine mount or remake/redesign the exhaust to clear the bulk head, other than that go for it. I might do another for myself this year.

delcbr

back when i had my renault 5 turbo my m8 who has always had pugs starting with the rare D reg 205xs with twin webbers as standard!!!! moved onto the 2x 1.6 gti's then 2x 1.9 gtis then finally the 1.9 mi16 205 and all i remember him doing is replacing drop links wheel bearings bottom wishbones as the bottom ball joint isnt replaceable you have to replace the whole bottom wishbone he said the quintin hasle or QH as its branded (i dont know the correct spelling)seemed to be the best quality out of all the replacement parts manufacturers.

anyhow he said the best one he owned out the entire lot was the 205xs it had the best handling very controllable when the back end backs out and had a very eager engine.
basically once you lower them it takes its toll on the suspension and the other parts i mentioned above.

i always thought my renault 5 turbo seemed miles better than his cars more fun to drive brakes were even better than the acceleration.
i just think alot of people jump on the bandwagon with the 205 gti.ive driven one of his a few times ad i never thought i need to get one of these was happy with the 5gtt.

pink pantha

sorry to change the tone but i got a track starlet rwd in need of lots of work but adj bilsteins,ap f/brakes,turret to turret weld in roll cage seriously wide kevlar bodykit,no eng,diff n halfs but im sure it can be salvaged or im breakin it, pic in my scoob but this was when track worthy in 08/2007.and it is jap cheers

ScoobyJawa

its 167 4bhp make a big diff in an na

Dream Weaver

Buy a 205 that is already made for the track or it will cost you a fortune to do as I well know.

Once you start renewing the parts needed on most of them you WILL spend a lot of cash.

And go for a std 1.9, or if you do want 16v go for the GTI-6 engine.

rb5_336

good advice from dreamweaver, defo buy a sorted car already unless you are a perfectionist with deep pockets:

My old mi16 (standard engine):



My current 8v (race engine):



I've been tracking 205s for a good number of years, it's taken 3 years to get my 8v to the spec and reliability I want, here's a recent vid of it.

YouTube - Peugeot 205 GTI 8v Track/Sprint Car 185bhp / 150 lb/ft

my website:
track-monkey.co.uk

sean

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

Auto Trader UK - PEUGEOT 309 1.9 GTi

worth a look?

delcbr

**** me i havent seen a 309 in years!!!!!!!! but sounds good for the price!

delcbr

very good whats with the dip in the power and torque curve is that something to do with using bike carbs?

Dream Weaver

If you want to see what an £8000 205 rebuild track/fast road rebuild looks like as well try my gallery below from the 205gtid site.

Members' Car Projects Gallery :: DreamWeaver's 205 Mi16 - DIY Motorbike Throttle Bodies Conversion

PS that took me three years and thousands of wasted hours.

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

Not been in a 205gti for years. Last time was when I was driving an XR3I. But I have recently sold a 306GTI6. And never quite understood why anyone would nick the engine from one of these to put into an older 205.

The 306GTI6 is a superb car straight out of the box. 167bhp, small,light and handles very, very well.

Why not save yourself a huge load of agro and just get a 306GTI6 strip it and cage it, and if your really serious put some trick suspension on it.

Just sold mine for under £1K. and if you look hard enough there are plenty more around for circa 1K at the moment.

I had a 306xsi16V which is far inferior to the GTI6. And although I never managed to track the GTI6 in the end, even the XSI was great on the track.

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

Oh and if you were smitten on a 205GTI then they don't get much cheaper than this one for £500

pug gti 1.9 - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

To the O.P...

Pm me if you want any info. re. day to day driving (even thought it will be a track car). As per response on the other thread (old skool tunes in NSR), I have mine and is used as my one and only car. Do most the work on it myself maintenence wise and I'm the worst DIY mechanic ever. Doddle to work on, but need to get a good 'un (like mine actually) that has had all the niggly bits like perished hoses, fuel lines, thermostat housings etc all replaced.

Hate to say it but if it had a turbo engine it may be more fun to drive than my old Scoob, handles so well it's untrue and the liftoff oversteer is a hellova lot easier to control than the "snap-back" on a Scoob too. I hate saying that as I pine for my red classic everyday, but this is keeping me going until someone wants to swap a cheap Scoob for it

bluewesty

hi there ive had one sitting on my drive for a year now and just cant afford to insure it,
its a g reg 1.9, just fitted all new springs and shocks, proberly done 100miles! its in the same condition as the one previous and i think its done the same milage. not sure till i check. your more than welcome to come have a look. im in chelmsford. pm me for my number. oh my names dan by the way.