dewi

The new company car tax regime means my Impreza is going to start costing me a lot more after 1 April. It's due for replacement in September, so I'm wondering what to do next. I'm considering the following, in order of preference:

1. Buy my MY00 Impreza Turbo from the leasing company and take the cash alternative.

2. Lease an Impreza WRX and cough up the extra company car tax.

3. Lease a Volvo S60 D5 SE. It's the only other car I've test driven so far. It was no Scooby, but it was quiet, comfortable, had lots of toys and averaged 42 mpg. Best of all, it's not a BMW. The company car park is full of BMWs already.

4. Lease an Audi A4 1.9 TDI. I haven't test driven it, but I'm not expecting to like it. Trouble is, the 2.5 TDI is slower and in a higher tax bracket than the Volvo, so what's the point?

5. Lease a BMW 320d SE Touring. Again, I haven't test driven it, but I can't see myself as a BMW driver.

6. I'm running short of ideas after that. I've priced up the Audi S3, but it would cost me more than a Scooby and I'd rather have the Scooby.

I know these are hardly the sorts of cars normally considered as alternatives to the Scooby, but I'd appreciate your opinions.

Yex

The Lotus Elise MK2 comes into a very low emmissions bracket if you could get away with it for your company car

Yex

dewi

The rules say it has to seat 4 comfortably. A colleague had his request for a Honda Integra Type R turned down, though BMW 3-series coupes seem acceptable for some reason.

TaviaRS

How about an Octavia 4x4? Golf / Bora TDi 150? Octavia RS? Passat 130 TDi?

dewi

Good suggestions. I'd kind of considered them (and the new Skoda Superb TDI -- that's got to be one of the worst car names ever).

As far as the diesels are concerned, I'm going to test drive the Audi A4 1.9 TDI on the grounds that if I find it too noisy, I'd be unlikely to like the others, whereas if I do like it, then I'll try the Skoda and VW alternatives (I've never been very badge-concious). I'm not holding out much hope, as I drove an Audi A4 1.9 TDI four years ago and thought it sounded like a tractor. The engine's been improved since then, but probably not by that much. I'm particularly dubious about the Golf TDI 150, as another thread on this BBS pointed out it's even noiser than the 130. The Volvo D5 engine, on the other hand, is superb -- 163 BHP, only 171 g/km and it sounds just as quiet as a petrol engine.,

The Skoda Octavia RS suffers from the same disadvantage as the Audi S3 -- it'll cost me just as much and I'd prefer the Scooby. That won't necessarily stop me road testing the Skoda and the Audi, just to see what they're like, of course

P1Fanatic

Well as my mate has a BMW Coupe (330 Ci Sport) I must admit that there is plenty of space in the back seats for 2 adults (Im 6ft). I was pleasantly suprised myself.

dewi

Hehe, then I'll retract my sarcastic comment about BMW coupes It's just that most of our company cars seem to be BMWs and some of my colleagues couldn't understand why I chose a mere Subaru when I could have afforded an Ultimate Driving Machine(TM) like a BMW 318i.

SJobson

Have you looked at the cost to yourself of running your MY00? It may work out cheaper to pay the extra tax on a new WRX!

As for the others... a friend of mine was in the same boat a while ago. Diesels were a definite, because of tax liability (spend the money you save on a Caterham 7 or something ). He was interested in the A4, I kept suggesting the Volvo (gorgeous car, still quite rare, and if you're not going to have a Scoob you may as well go completely the opposite way!). Anyway, he got a Pug 307 HDi 110. Mad.

It's not surprising 3-series coupes are so prevalent - they're probably the only coupe which would fit your company criteria. Shame they don't look like coupes then

Off-the-wall suggestion - Civic Type-R? It cruises as well as my MY99, has a different sort of manic nature but does a similar job, and the low list price will keep your tax liability down. I'm getting mine a week on Friday, so you'd be in good company.

dewi

Based on some rough calculations, it would cost me a little bit more (about £40-80 pm) to buy my MY00 as compared to leasing a new WRX. Of course, I'd then have a trade-in in 3 years time, so it's not a straightforward comparison.

Edit: Both the Scooby and the S60 D5 are good cars and I think that both are worth the £22k asking price, it's just that they're so different. I agree with your point that I should look for something completely different if I'm not going to get another Scoob. The S60 is never going to perform or handle like a Scoob, so I see no point in fitting options like sports suspension. I'd rather appreciate the S60's many other virtues, such as the smooth, quiet ride, relaxed demeanour and fuel economy.

I'm not sure I'd describe the S60 as gorgeous I didn't get the same 'feel good' factor from seeing the S60 sitting on the drive as I do from seeing the Scooby there. I was very glad to see the Scooby again when I took the car back to the dealer. Having said that, the S60 was very, very quiet, with good seats, a smooth ride and excellent ergonomics -- it was like sitting in an armchair. Volvo seem to have a bit of a lead in diesel engine technology at the moment.

My wife suggested I try a Honda Civic Type R after we saw it road-tested on Driven the other week. I'd certainly like to road test one I considered buying a second hand Civic VTi instead of leasing the Scooby three years ago. I'm not sure that a Type R would be able to cope with long business journeys as well as the Scooby does, though. Also, I feel relucant to spend significantly under my lease allowance even if I get a benefit in reduced tax, illogical I know.

[Edited by dewi - 2/19/2002 2:58:51 PM]

Steve Wilson

If you are looking for something completely different have a look at the Skoda Superb V6 TDi (Agree hideous name).

Have a look at the website: www.skoda-superb.de for some pics.

Very highly rated by those I know who have driven. It is a cruising 'exec.' type car though, not sporty.

Loads of kit - refrigerated bottle compartment, back of front seats folds down to make a legrest for the rear passenger, floor of the boot can be opened up in different ways to contain shopping etc + all the usual high grade leather, climate .......

Bigger than a 5 series, apparently looks a bit like an A8 in the flesh. (Rear & flank).

[Edited by Steve Wilson - 2/19/2002 3:51:10 PM]

dewi

The Skoda Superb V6 TDI does sound interesting (if very different to an Impreza). Its main advantage over the Passat and A4 seems to be the huge amount of rear legroom (and a cheaper price, I hope). Bigger than a 5 series? I assumed it was a stretched version of the Passat.

My main worry is what the leasing company is going to make of the residual values and therefore the lease price.

Any idea when the Superb is going to go on sale?

GaryC

I guess it depends if you want the best car or get hung up on what the car says about you.

The BMW diesels are the best out there. Most powerfull in their class and the new ones with the revised steering etc are the best handling. If your only reason for not buying one is because 'it's a BMW' then settle for a lesser car!

The VAG cars (Skoda/VW/Audi/seat) are good, and the 1.9tdi engine very good, but it is still slow and noisy compared to the BMW units, and the cars themselves are not as good to drive and possibly the Audi A4 excepted, not as good to be in.

The Volvo is a good car, but a numb drive, and the reports I have read put the oil burner well behind the german offerings.

Why not put predjudice aside and go and drive the BMWs. I did almost exactly a year ago and it took me 10 minutes to get to the decision to swap a 290hp impreza for a 330d - and I haven't regretted it once.

dewi

Hehe, fair enough. It's a fair cop. I'm the one usually complaining about BMW drivers getting too hung up on a badge.

If I could afford a BMW 330d, I'd be round to the dealers for a test drive like a shot (it's a shame they don't do it as a coupe, though a touring would be just fine). As it is, I fully intend to test drive a 320d. My local BMW dealer has just sold their 320d demonstrator and isn't expecting another one until mid- to end-March (it's not a problem, as the Impreza isn't due for replacement until 1 September).

The 330d is in a class of its own, but the 320d isn't the most powerful in its class -- that would be the Volvo, with 163 bhp! I was very impressed by the Volvo D5 engine. It's a brand new engine -- the old diesel engine was a bit of a clunker, apparently.

The last Audi A4 1.9 TDI I drove sounded like a tractor, though that was 4 years ago and they've hopefully improved since then. Anyway, I'm test driving an Audi A4 on Thursday, so I'll find out for myself.

I'm hopeful the BMW engine will be at least as good as the Volvo D5.

Scooby Roo

Back to the idea of buying from the lease company

There are plenty of tax benefits and other goodies when buying your own like:

Getting a home loan interest rates are low so a decent deal can be had.

Recovery of the interest on your loan

Less tax generally (although that depends on your lease arrangement etc.)

I dont know about you but I swapped my company Rover 416i (exciting eh!!! ) for a scoob in August (I get a smallish car allowance from the company) and a wouldnt change it for anything else. Just depends on what ya want really.

Rup

Reffro

I've had a run in just about every diesel car going, seeing as my old company had a diesel only policy.

VW group diesels are very good. Ok the 4-cylinder models are a bit crude, but blooody effective, the new PD units are brilliant. Best thing is they can be chipped to great effect. My friend has a older non PD Golf 110 tdi thats been chipped (140bhp and 240lb ft), and its bloody awesome, driving a 323ci behind him up a steep hill I only kept level with him in second gear accelerating from 40 to 75 mph, he was in THIRD!!!!. And the PD engines can get up to 170bhp I remember him saying.
V6 engines are a very nice too, but worth remembering only the latest Audi's have the 180bhp engines, otherwise its 155bhp in the Passat and Skoda, and 150bhp in all the older audi's and vw's.

BMW 330d is the most awesome car going in the diesel world,40+mpg, 140+mph, and it crucifies almost all comers on mid-range acceleration. The new 320d isn't far behind it now, but it doesn't have the depth of ability of its bigger brother, almost as quick but runs out of breathe sooner. I would recommend getting a 2002 model year car too, much better steering feel than previous years.

The new Volvo I haven't driven yet but all the signs are very good. At the end of the day it will be supremely comfy, well worth considering if you do many miles, and even though I'm loathed to say it, the S60 looks fantastic on the move.

Nobody has mentioned a Mercedes, old man's car I know but bloody good diesels again. New C-class looks good too, and the
Sport-coupe has a diesel option.

Saab has a new V6 TID engine in the 9-5 now, 176bhp 3.0 turbo diesel. Supposed to go very well too, and they have the best seats in the business for high mileage drivers. Further down the range they have a new 2.2 TID engine in the 9-5 too (will be on sale next month), and if I remember my price lists correctly they start at 19,995. Only 125bhp though.....

As everyone is suddenly realising they are going to get stiffed under the new tax regime. I've been fearing this for the last two years, and remember its only going to get worse. The bandings will be adjusted year by year initially, obviously getting harsher. Diesel is a must if your looking to save money, until direct injection petrol engines and there like become more prevalent. Turbo petrol engines are going to get hammered, as they are inherantly 'dirty'.

Hope this is helpful. I have all the sales brochures to hand at work (its my job to know all this now), if you have a quick query drop me a line if you like. Can't promise a quick answer as I might not be able to check my personal e-mail during the day.

Reffro

Just a quick note on another alternative. If you can't bear to think of a diesel car, how about a Saab 9-5 Aero. I have just seen a press release from them and I kid you not it has CO2 emissions of 209g/km. Less than some 2.0 rep specials.

Compare the tax you'd pay on this with say a BMW 330d and its not much different, due to the 3% diesel supplement.

And lets not forget we're talking about a 250bhp 2.3 turbo, with bucketload of torque too, and plenty of toys inside to play with.

dewi

Thanks, Reffro, there are a lot of useful suggestions there.

I road tested an Audi A4 1.9 TDI 130 yesterday. It was quieter than I expected (and much quieter than the A4 1.9 TDI I drove 4 years ago), but quite a bit noisier than the Volvo S60 D5. On the whole, I felt a bit underwhelmed. It felt like a mundane car that happens to be exceptionally well-built. I was also disappointed by the harsh ride. I found the body shape much more pleasing than the Volvo (lots more kerb appeal), but I found the Volvo cabin a much nicer place to be -- it's quieter, more spacious, has better ergonomics and has a much better ride. I felt the A4 was trying too hard to be a sports saloon (and falling well short of an Impreza), while the Volvo was trying to be something completely different -- a quiet, comfortable, executive cruiser that still has good roadholding and handling. I think the A4 would make a lot of sense as a 3.0 Quattro, for example, but I'm not convinced by the 1.9 TDI.

The BMW 330d and Saab 9-5 Aero are both well out of my price range. The Impreza WRX is a £21,495 car that costs £457 pm to lease. The 330d is a £26,220 car that costs £596 pm to lease and the Saab 9-5 Aero is a £27,317 car that costs £607 pm to lease. My lease allowance is £475 pm. From what I've heard about the 330d, if I could afford one, I'd get one.

My experience with the Audi A4 makes the Skoda Superb sound quite appealing. If the Superb 2.5 TDI falls in my price range, it might make a quiet, roomy and comfortable A-road and motorway cruiser. I'm not sure what the lease price is going to be, though, as who knows what the residuals are going to be like?

My thoughts at the moment are:

1. Subaru Impreza WRX, £21,495, 242 g/km, 218 bhp, £457 pm
2. Volvo S60 D5 SE, £22,945, 171 g/km, 163 bhp, £434 pm
3. BMW 320d SE Touring, £23,365, 153 g/km, 150 bhp, £464 pm
4. Skoda Superb 2.5 TDI, 155 bhp

[Edited by dewi - 2/22/2002 10:38:48 AM]

Jon Jonzz

Scooby Roo,

FYI, loan interest is no longer claimable after 5 April 2002; likewise Captial Allowances, for personal cars with business mileage.

Only the statutory mileage allowance is claimable from 6 April 2002 onwards by employees.

GaryC

What interest is claimable before end tax year 2001/02??

Jon Jonzz

Up to 5 April 2002, you can claim the business proportion of any loan (including HP) interest of for vehicle finance - e.g. if the total interest for 2001-02 is £1000, and the vehicle is used 50% for business, then the tax deduction is £500. This is in addition to any mileage allowance paid to the employee.

The alternative to claiming a mileage allowance (even if such an allowance was paid by the employer) is to claim the business % of the total costs (of which loan interest would be just one)including depreciation. Depreciation is given by way of Captital Allowances, rather than any accountancy method. If a mileage allowance is paid, then this will have to be deducted from the claim.

Finally, if the employer is on the stingy side, and pays a mileage rate that is LESS than the Inland Revenue approved rate, then the employee can claim the difference from the the IR via his/her Tax Return - e.g. for a car over 2000cc, the IR rate is 63p per mile for the first 4000 miles and 36p thereafter.

After 5 April 2002, there are just 2 rates (for cars or vans) - 40p for the first 10,000 miles and 25p thereafter. There is also 5p per mile per passenger for taking colleagues in one's vehicle.