New Civic Type R is hot hatch King.
29 January 2007, 12:28 PM
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New Civic Type R is hot hatch King.
29 January 2007, 01:07 PM
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It's funny ALL the media went on and on about Torsion beams and how awfully old fashioned it was, and how it couldn't possibly be better than the Ford Asbo and Golf GTI with their fandanggled independant set ups.
Just goes to show that techonlogy should be based on the results, not what is on paper.
I'll write you an IOU for your eyes
Just goes to show that techonlogy should be based on the results, not what is on paper.
I'll write you an IOU for your eyes
29 January 2007, 02:56 PM
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The reviews are not that good, just normal, Autocar said they were basically disappointed, I am not just saying that, i was genuinely looking forward to see if it was good, used to own a dc2 so am not a honda hater, But always thought the last model was overrated, same foibles seem to be evident with this one, Yes you might get some more power lower done revs, but not much, and it sounds like you still have to rev hard. Plus imo it looks terrible. I'm not after this turning into a an argument over other hot hatches, just strange to see honda playing it safe and not really moving the game on, which i thought they would.
29 January 2007, 03:25 PM
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What the buggery is happening with that dash board? i didn't know where to focus on....Is there 2 steps to that dash like clocks at the bottom and then digital stuff on the top. Probably looks better in the metal but from there it looks over engineered.
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29 January 2007, 06:43 PM
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It works brilliantly. Trust me, I have one (diesel not Type-R).
29 January 2007, 06:47 PM
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Ive been thinking of buying the new TypeR (still am).
Having had my Impreza for so long, well nearly 6 years and being so use to 4 wheel drive I took an old shape TrpeR out for a test drive as well as the new TypeS to try and get some idea of what the new TypeR would be like.
The thing is I dont know if i could go back to a powerful front wheel drive car again.
Instead in now thinking of a MK5 golf R32, ok its alot more money to shell out but it should also keep its value well over a couple of years but have to get a drive in a TypeR before the final decision is made.
Having had my Impreza for so long, well nearly 6 years and being so use to 4 wheel drive I took an old shape TrpeR out for a test drive as well as the new TypeS to try and get some idea of what the new TypeR would be like.
The thing is I dont know if i could go back to a powerful front wheel drive car again.
Instead in now thinking of a MK5 golf R32, ok its alot more money to shell out but it should also keep its value well over a couple of years but have to get a drive in a TypeR before the final decision is made.
29 January 2007, 07:11 PM
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I love the new Civic Type R, I think it looks outragously good.
I would really think about buying the new one if I had the money for a new car.
Autocar don't like anything unless its a German four door executive saloon.
I would really think about buying the new one if I had the money for a new car.
Autocar don't like anything unless its a German four door executive saloon.
30 January 2007, 01:35 AM
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You think THAT looks good? it's a type R..and its got an ARM REST for Gods sake. it looks stodgy and fat and its got a really nasty halfords spoiler that does bugger all for the already foul **** end.
i know that the car has to come up to the level of the big hitters like the golf and the audi s3 for saftey and comfort but come on...the type R was hondas idea of a light..nimble..no frills racer for the road,not a gadget laden luxury hatch with all the sportyness of a fat bird in a flip flops and a liotard.
foul car..its the nintendo wii against fords xbox360 and volkswagens ps3.
well done honda for slowly diluting the type r brand till it tastes nothing more than watered down ****.
i know that the car has to come up to the level of the big hitters like the golf and the audi s3 for saftey and comfort but come on...the type R was hondas idea of a light..nimble..no frills racer for the road,not a gadget laden luxury hatch with all the sportyness of a fat bird in a flip flops and a liotard.
foul car..its the nintendo wii against fords xbox360 and volkswagens ps3.
well done honda for slowly diluting the type r brand till it tastes nothing more than watered down ****.
30 January 2007, 06:49 AM
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You think THAT looks good? it's a type R..and its got an ARM REST for Gods sake. it looks stodgy and fat and its got a really nasty halfords spoiler that does bugger all for the already foul **** end.
i know that the car has to come up to the level of the big hitters like the golf and the audi s3 for saftey and comfort but come on...the type R was hondas idea of a light..nimble..no frills racer for the road,not a gadget laden luxury hatch with all the sportyness of a fat bird in a flip flops and a liotard.
foul car..its the nintendo wii against fords xbox360 and volkswagens ps3.
well done honda for slowly diluting the type r brand till it tastes nothing more than watered down ****.
i know that the car has to come up to the level of the big hitters like the golf and the audi s3 for saftey and comfort but come on...the type R was hondas idea of a light..nimble..no frills racer for the road,not a gadget laden luxury hatch with all the sportyness of a fat bird in a flip flops and a liotard.
foul car..its the nintendo wii against fords xbox360 and volkswagens ps3.
well done honda for slowly diluting the type r brand till it tastes nothing more than watered down ****.
30 January 2007, 08:41 AM
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I know why you are unhappy, but I think you are ignoring the realities of modern car manufacturing. Say for a moment that Honda has stayed true to the original Type-R concept. They'd be offering a stripped out mid-sized hatch with no sound proofing, bucket seats, rock hard suspension etc etc. What sort of market would such a car have? I know people will reply to this question by saying that they would buy one as it is just the sort of car they are looking for, but I rather suspect that they would change their mind when faced with handing over their readies for such a focused car. How many people (and their passengers) could do 150 motorway miles in such a car and how much fun would it be to live with during our long cold winters? The reality is that people like their toys and creature comforts because they make the ownership proposition more attractive than the fun of driving a lightweight, stripped out racer on Britain's overcrowded roads.
30 January 2007, 09:18 AM
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We pick our CTDi up tomorrow evening - absolutely fantastic vehicle. 
We tested Golf, Focus, BMW 1, AUdi A3 and the Civic and it just pisses on all of them in every single way, from driving position to handling, interior space to practicality.
There was no contest and we pretty much had it bought straight away.
The dash/interior makes the car feel so much more alive than any of the other boring hatches.
When we no longer need 5 doors, i'll trade the diesel in for the Type R in 3 years or so.
We tested Golf, Focus, BMW 1, AUdi A3 and the Civic and it just pisses on all of them in every single way, from driving position to handling, interior space to practicality.
There was no contest and we pretty much had it bought straight away.
The dash/interior makes the car feel so much more alive than any of the other boring hatches.
When we no longer need 5 doors, i'll trade the diesel in for the Type R in 3 years or so.
30 January 2007, 09:22 AM
#16
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In fact it was quite gutting having to buy the 5 door on Saturday when an extra £2k would get me the Type R, but we have a nipper on the way so need the space.
Interior is 90% of a buying decision for me, as thats where you spend the time, and the Golf/Astra et al are just bland, bland, bland!!!!
I also think the Civic exterior is perfect as well.
30 January 2007, 10:17 AM
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Everyone to their own i suppose, But you buy a diesel for certain things and a hot hatch for certain things, i just dont think the type r matches up to the current competition. As for looks i know i own one but you seriously think the vxr looks bad or bland, and like the looks of the type r, are you mad?
30 January 2007, 10:47 AM
#18
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VXR is way too squashed for my liking, though the exterior is quite nice in parts.
Interior is still bland old Vauxhall though, with a dash that is sharply vertical - I like to be surrounded in a car, cockpit style
In what way will the type R not match up? Performance wise it has a decent amount of power, hatches these days are getting silly with power. I think the looks are superb.
Interior is still bland old Vauxhall though, with a dash that is sharply vertical - I like to be surrounded in a car, cockpit style
In what way will the type R not match up? Performance wise it has a decent amount of power, hatches these days are getting silly with power. I think the looks are superb.
30 January 2007, 10:51 AM
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I know why you are unhappy, but I think you are ignoring the realities of modern car manufacturing. Say for a moment that Honda has stayed true to the original Type-R concept. They'd be offering a stripped out mid-sized hatch with no sound proofing, bucket seats, rock hard suspension etc etc. What sort of market would such a car have? I know people will reply to this question by saying that they would buy one as it is just the sort of car they are looking for, but I rather suspect that they would change their mind when faced with handing over their readies for such a focused car. How many people (and their passengers) could do 150 motorway miles in such a car and how much fun would it be to live with during our long cold winters? The reality is that people like their toys and creature comforts because they make the ownership proposition more attractive than the fun of driving a lightweight, stripped out racer on Britain's overcrowded roads.
I disagree in part.
I lived with a DC2 Integra quite happily in the circumstances you describe.
However, how many ITR's did Honda sell?. Not enough.
They sold many more CTR's.
Part of the problem may be the magazines themselves, to be honest. I read loads of reviews saying Type R civic is great - but make sure you get air con.
Good idea - lets add weight, complexity and power sapping air con.
What Honda should do (and they are almost there by offering different spec levels) is offer a RR version - no fancy kit, wind up windows, lighter glass, less sound proofing, lightweight buckets and offer it for Clio 197 money for the real enthusiasts.
And offer a specced up, more refined version for those who clearly want it.
30 January 2007, 11:13 AM
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THE CIVIC TYPE R R ..sounds like a bloody pirate with a stutter lol
a lightweight stripped down version would be a wise move as honda do now have a following from people under the age of 87 who don't smell like stale urine and murray mints.
the 306 ralleye sold quite well considering it was a no frills alternative to its gti6 brother. likewise the cup 182 seems to be a more popular sight than the bog standard 182. there is a market for such cars. not everyone drives 300 miles a day and needs sat nav air con arm rests and 100 airbags.
am i right in thinking though the gt has all the kit and the normal type r is a bit of a tesco value version?
a lightweight stripped down version would be a wise move as honda do now have a following from people under the age of 87 who don't smell like stale urine and murray mints.
the 306 ralleye sold quite well considering it was a no frills alternative to its gti6 brother. likewise the cup 182 seems to be a more popular sight than the bog standard 182. there is a market for such cars. not everyone drives 300 miles a day and needs sat nav air con arm rests and 100 airbags.
am i right in thinking though the gt has all the kit and the normal type r is a bit of a tesco value version?
30 January 2007, 11:36 AM
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THE CIVIC TYPE R R ..sounds like a bloody pirate with a stutter lol
a lightweight stripped down version would be a wise move as honda do now have a following from people under the age of 87 who don't smell like stale urine and murray mints.
the 306 ralleye sold quite well considering it was a no frills alternative to its gti6 brother. likewise the cup 182 seems to be a more popular sight than the bog standard 182. there is a market for such cars. not everyone drives 300 miles a day and needs sat nav air con arm rests and 100 airbags.
am i right in thinking though the gt has all the kit and the normal type r is a bit of a tesco value version?
a lightweight stripped down version would be a wise move as honda do now have a following from people under the age of 87 who don't smell like stale urine and murray mints.
the 306 ralleye sold quite well considering it was a no frills alternative to its gti6 brother. likewise the cup 182 seems to be a more popular sight than the bog standard 182. there is a market for such cars. not everyone drives 300 miles a day and needs sat nav air con arm rests and 100 airbags.
am i right in thinking though the gt has all the kit and the normal type r is a bit of a tesco value version?
30 January 2007, 12:02 PM
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A few points that clearly need by expert attention. Firstly, Honda is premium brand. Whether you like it or not it is way above Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot etc and at least on a par with VW. This fact combined with the massive amount of standard kit relative to price means they are a great car to buy, live with and sell on. Try getting another premium brand hatch to the same level as the new Civic and you be amazed at the price difference. Just to illustrate with a point I haven't mentioned before. How many people here have a push bike they like to carry in the car? In the Civic you don't have to put it on the roof, on the back or in the boot. You simply lift up the rear seats and put the bike in the space vacated. Things like this sound so boring, but they make for a fantastic car to own.
VXRBOY, I don't think Honda have dropped the ball. How fast do you want to go? I know we have had this conversation before, but for the vast majority of people the purchase decision is not based primarily around ultimate performance. You buy the best package. If this wasn't the case then we'd all own Ariel Atoms. As a complete package the Honda is the best.
A lot of people on here moan about excessive weight. Let's just have a think for a moment. All the crash protection stuff has to remain so there is no weight saving to made there. If we rip out the stereo, back seats, all sound proofing, aircon, electric windows and SAT NAV and replace the alloys with steel rims we would probably save 75kg if we are lucky. We would also be left with a car that is only marginally faster and bloody awful to live with. Then try selling such a focused car.
This is a popular site. However, there are a lot more potential buyers of hot hatches that don't read Scoobynet than who do. Most of these people are after a do-it-all car and are not interested in racing of any kind. Honda know what they are doing and I bet the sales figures back this up.
VXRBOY, I don't think Honda have dropped the ball. How fast do you want to go? I know we have had this conversation before, but for the vast majority of people the purchase decision is not based primarily around ultimate performance. You buy the best package. If this wasn't the case then we'd all own Ariel Atoms. As a complete package the Honda is the best.
A lot of people on here moan about excessive weight. Let's just have a think for a moment. All the crash protection stuff has to remain so there is no weight saving to made there. If we rip out the stereo, back seats, all sound proofing, aircon, electric windows and SAT NAV and replace the alloys with steel rims we would probably save 75kg if we are lucky. We would also be left with a car that is only marginally faster and bloody awful to live with. Then try selling such a focused car.
This is a popular site. However, there are a lot more potential buyers of hot hatches that don't read Scoobynet than who do. Most of these people are after a do-it-all car and are not interested in racing of any kind. Honda know what they are doing and I bet the sales figures back this up.
30 January 2007, 12:07 PM
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Going on the old one, I have to say my Astra (non VXR but high spec level) is way more durable than the previous CTR - My mate had one and the seats were worn away by the seat belts, he had creaks and rattles all over the place and soon mangled the rear parcel shelf.
I'd say Honda have the essentials well made - Engine, chassis, brakes, etc but have made the interior very much to a strict budget on both the new and old one.
I'd say Honda have the essentials well made - Engine, chassis, brakes, etc but have made the interior very much to a strict budget on both the new and old one.
30 January 2007, 12:10 PM
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THE CIVIC TYPE R R ..sounds like a bloody pirate with a stutter lol
a lightweight stripped down version would be a wise move as honda do now have a following from people under the age of 87 who don't smell like stale urine and murray mints.
the 306 ralleye sold quite well considering it was a no frills alternative to its gti6 brother. likewise the cup 182 seems to be a more popular sight than the bog standard 182. there is a market for such cars. not everyone drives 300 miles a day and needs sat nav air con arm rests and 100 airbags.
am i right in thinking though the gt has all the kit and the normal type r is a bit of a tesco value version?
a lightweight stripped down version would be a wise move as honda do now have a following from people under the age of 87 who don't smell like stale urine and murray mints.
the 306 ralleye sold quite well considering it was a no frills alternative to its gti6 brother. likewise the cup 182 seems to be a more popular sight than the bog standard 182. there is a market for such cars. not everyone drives 300 miles a day and needs sat nav air con arm rests and 100 airbags.
am i right in thinking though the gt has all the kit and the normal type r is a bit of a tesco value version?
Secondly, the big difference between the two 182 versions is the suspension. The trim levels are not that different. So saying that sales of 182 Cups are good so there is a market for other stripped out hot hatches is misleading.
Finally, who on here has stripped out their car to create the one they all say they want? Very very few.
30 January 2007, 12:10 PM
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I agree with the premium brand theory. Im torn between a new clio 197 or the new CTR but if it was down to quality and residuals(better than a golf gti) then the CTR takes it easy. Its not however and its doing my nut in!! But if I wanted pure performance id stick with my 335 BHP Sti. However I fancy a good quality fun hatch thats going to be reasonable to run and offer a few thrills, Thats the point of a hot hatch isnt it? SO thats the qustion. Which car offers the best balance of cost,quality,performance and ownership. Going round the ring fast id buy a soddin Atom!
30 January 2007, 12:19 PM
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I prefer the look of the old (I'm biased), when I bought mine I was considering waiting on for the new one but I love the one I've got!! I think there's too many buttons and things to distract you in the new civics!!:freak:
I think there's too many buttons and things to distract you in the new civics!!:freak:
30 January 2007, 12:33 PM
#27
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Going on the old one, I have to say my Astra (non VXR but high spec level) is way more durable than the previous CTR - My mate had one and the seats were worn away by the seat belts, he had creaks and rattles all over the place and soon mangled the rear parcel shelf.
I'd say Honda have the essentials well made - Engine, chassis, brakes, etc but have made the interior very much to a strict budget on both the new and old one.
I'd say Honda have the essentials well made - Engine, chassis, brakes, etc but have made the interior very much to a strict budget on both the new and old one.
Read any review and you will read about the quality interior.
I've been testing all the brands of car this past 4 weeks, and the Civic interior is the best of all of them - the buttons are perfectly damped, all controls are excellent and the build quality is perfect.
Much better than the 12 month old pile of crap VW Golf I drove that felt like it was 10 years old!!
A few points that clearly need by expert attention. Firstly, Honda is premium brand. Whether you like it or not it is way above Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot etc and at least on a par with VW. This fact combined with the massive amount of standard kit relative to price means they are a great car to buy, live with and sell on. Try getting another premium brand hatch to the same level as the new Civic and you be amazed at the price difference. Just to illustrate with a point I haven't mentioned before. How many people here have a push bike they like to carry in the car? In the Civic you don't have to put it on the roof, on the back or in the boot. You simply lift up the rear seats and put the bike in the space vacated. Things like this sound so boring, but they make for a fantastic car to own.
VXRBOY, I don't think Honda have dropped the ball. How fast do you want to go? I know we have had this conversation before, but for the vast majority of people the purchase decision is not based primarily around ultimate performance. You buy the best package. If this wasn't the case then we'd all own Ariel Atoms. As a complete package the Honda is the best.
A lot of people on here moan about excessive weight. Let's just have a think for a moment. All the crash protection stuff has to remain so there is no weight saving to made there. If we rip out the stereo, back seats, all sound proofing, aircon, electric windows and SAT NAV and replace the alloys with steel rims we would probably save 75kg if we are lucky. We would also be left with a car that is only marginally faster and bloody awful to live with. Then try selling such a focused car.
This is a popular site. However, there are a lot more potential buyers of hot hatches that don't read Scoobynet than who do. Most of these people are after a do-it-all car and are not interested in racing of any kind. Honda know what they are doing and I bet the sales figures back this up.
VXRBOY, I don't think Honda have dropped the ball. How fast do you want to go? I know we have had this conversation before, but for the vast majority of people the purchase decision is not based primarily around ultimate performance. You buy the best package. If this wasn't the case then we'd all own Ariel Atoms. As a complete package the Honda is the best.
A lot of people on here moan about excessive weight. Let's just have a think for a moment. All the crash protection stuff has to remain so there is no weight saving to made there. If we rip out the stereo, back seats, all sound proofing, aircon, electric windows and SAT NAV and replace the alloys with steel rims we would probably save 75kg if we are lucky. We would also be left with a car that is only marginally faster and bloody awful to live with. Then try selling such a focused car.
This is a popular site. However, there are a lot more potential buyers of hot hatches that don't read Scoobynet than who do. Most of these people are after a do-it-all car and are not interested in racing of any kind. Honda know what they are doing and I bet the sales figures back this up.
People put too much emphasis on outright power, weight loss and "trackability". Maybe i'm getting old, but my 205 is just what people are getting at - very fast, very light, stripped out, and very unsafe
But its a pain to live with if you just want to drive it easily, it has no safety additions and is noisy.
I do think the idea of offering 2 versions of a hatch is a good idea though.
30 January 2007, 12:38 PM
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Dream - Errmmm which part is nonsense?!
Did I make up those facts I just mentioned?
My Golf looked like the most solid car ever built but rattled and creaked so clearly wasn't.
Let's not get into brand "blindness" eh? Makes you like like AudiLover.
Did I make up those facts I just mentioned?
My Golf looked like the most solid car ever built but rattled and creaked so clearly wasn't.
Let's not get into brand "blindness" eh? Makes you like like AudiLover.
30 January 2007, 01:19 PM
#29
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The part about the interior being cheap and built to a budget - have you actually driven one?
It's not brand blindness, i've test driven all the major hatch brands this past month, and the Civic was leagues ahead of all of them, never had a Honda before now.
It's not brand blindness, i've test driven all the major hatch brands this past month, and the Civic was leagues ahead of all of them, never had a Honda before now.
30 January 2007, 01:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Blueblaster;6606645]
VXRBOY, I don't think Honda have dropped the ball. How fast do you want to go? I know we have had this conversation before, but for the vast majority of people the purchase decision is not based primarily around ultimate performance. You buy the best package. If this wasn't the case then we'd all own Ariel Atoms. As a complete package the Honda is the best
Its obvious you love the ctr's and Honda but why is the honda the best complete package.
All the top hatches have most of the same spec, so all the same there, all around the same price again all comparative again, most are 3 door with foor seats and a roof, civic though looks poo imo, and is not as fast as some of them (supposed to be a hot hatch) how is this the best?
VXRBOY, I don't think Honda have dropped the ball. How fast do you want to go? I know we have had this conversation before, but for the vast majority of people the purchase decision is not based primarily around ultimate performance. You buy the best package. If this wasn't the case then we'd all own Ariel Atoms. As a complete package the Honda is the best
Its obvious you love the ctr's and Honda but why is the honda the best complete package.
All the top hatches have most of the same spec, so all the same there, all around the same price again all comparative again, most are 3 door with foor seats and a roof, civic though looks poo imo, and is not as fast as some of them (supposed to be a hot hatch) how is this the best?