Good handling diesel 4x4 car , is there such thing?
12 October 2006, 12:50 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good handling diesel 4x4 car , is there such thing?
I've got a front wheel drive A6 Avant TDI at the moment, i just want something that handles better and gives more feed back that would be well suited to B road blasts, but also be happy sat on the motorway and a pleasent place to be during 3 hour commutes. Oh and it needs to be an estate or at least a hatch
12 October 2006, 04:28 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My friend has a Passat TDi synchro estate which he tows his rally car with. He really rates it,fast(ish), great mpg, not too expensive to buy.
Last edited by WHEELSHOP0_0; 12 October 2006 at 04:32 PM.
13 October 2006, 01:19 PM
#7
BANNED
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by austen_wrx
I didn't know they made the ix after the e30's!! Now that sounds interesting!!
Trending Topics
15 October 2006, 11:56 AM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a chipped A4 2.5TDi Quattro which was quite quick, but I dont need to tell you it had the usual over assisted audi steering with little feedback, a little nose heavy too but could have some fun with it with the DSC off.
15 October 2006, 12:24 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 4,935
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are some good handling diesel estate's but 4X4 is very difficult.
The BMW's are going to be a good choice but the 3 series isn't a great load lugger.
My own choice without breaking the bank would be a Mondeo ST TDCi estate.
155PS and 300lbft of torque, sharp handling and excellent steering feel and a massive load bay.
Look hard enough and you should find one with the Recaro interior.
Cheers
Lee
The BMW's are going to be a good choice but the 3 series isn't a great load lugger.
My own choice without breaking the bank would be a Mondeo ST TDCi estate.
155PS and 300lbft of torque, sharp handling and excellent steering feel and a massive load bay.
Look hard enough and you should find one with the Recaro interior.
Cheers
Lee
15 October 2006, 05:45 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 4,935
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by austen_wrx
I was looking at modeos when i bought the A6, but just couldn't bring myself to to spend £6.5k on the blue badge!!
Drives a damn site better than the older VAG stuff at any price.
Cheers
Lee
15 October 2006, 06:06 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 330ix is pointless in the UK which is why BMW dont sell them here. They only come into their own when you run them on winter spikes - on standard tyres here it will be useless (ish) in snow (the 2 days a year we get) and for the other 363 days it will handle poorly compared to a standard 330i for exampe due to the extra weight over the front end and lower MPG and power at the wheels too.
15 October 2006, 06:48 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NE Herts
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a 155 ST TDCi and it is a blindingly good hack. Quick enough when on the move. No roll to speak of and self levelling rear end for when you need a spare engine for the scoob.........! Thankfully not had to put that one to the test yet. I get about 42MPG and drive like a TWOCer
DSCF3979.JPG @ Fotopic.Net
Nick
DSCF3979.JPG @ Fotopic.Net
Nick
15 October 2006, 06:59 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Torpid
You need a 330ix diesel. Unfortunately BMW don't sell them in the UK so the only option is import one.
16 October 2006, 06:45 AM
#15
BANNED
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by billythekid
The 330ix is pointless in the UK which is why BMW dont sell them here. They only come into their own when you run them on winter spikes - on standard tyres here it will be useless (ish) in snow (the 2 days a year we get) and for the other 363 days it will handle poorly compared to a standard 330i for exampe due to the extra weight over the front end and lower MPG and power at the wheels too.
On winter tyres I drove a 330xd to the Hintertux glacier in Austria, no spikes required, on some of the roads the only other vehicles I saw able to pass were the odd local in old style Panda 4x4's and snowploughs. No spikes were required on the xd. It was still returning in the mid 40's MPG. Power hardly felt different to the E46's I was used to and handling was still balanced.
BMW UK are missing a trick not selling these cars in the UK. Apart from the fact it rains there are huge swathes of the country where 4wd is almost a necessity for a good third of the year.
16 October 2006, 07:54 AM
#16
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Torpid
More or less all that is utter garbage. For a start the 4wd is very useful in any low traction situation and as it rains a lot in the UK I'd suggest that even on summer tyres it provides greater security than rwd. Ever tried to really put down the power from a 330i in the wet? Wheelspin is the result even with the ASC+TC on- never mind the diesel with it's monster torque.
On winter tyres I drove a 330xd to the Hintertux glacier in Austria, no spikes required, on some of the roads the only other vehicles I saw able to pass were the odd local in old style Panda 4x4's and snowploughs. No spikes were required on the xd. It was still returning in the mid 40's MPG. Power hardly felt different to the E46's I was used to and handling was still balanced.
BMW UK are missing a trick not selling these cars in the UK. Apart from the fact it rains there are huge swathes of the country where 4wd is almost a necessity for a good third of the year.
On winter tyres I drove a 330xd to the Hintertux glacier in Austria, no spikes required, on some of the roads the only other vehicles I saw able to pass were the odd local in old style Panda 4x4's and snowploughs. No spikes were required on the xd. It was still returning in the mid 40's MPG. Power hardly felt different to the E46's I was used to and handling was still balanced.
BMW UK are missing a trick not selling these cars in the UK. Apart from the fact it rains there are huge swathes of the country where 4wd is almost a necessity for a good third of the year.
16 October 2006, 09:04 AM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Torpid
More or less all that is utter garbage. For a start the 4wd is very useful in any low traction situation and as it rains a lot in the UK I'd suggest that even on summer tyres it provides greater security than rwd. Ever tried to really put down the power from a 330i in the wet? Wheelspin is the result even with the ASC+TC on- never mind the diesel with it's monster torque.
On winter tyres I drove a 330xd to the Hintertux glacier in Austria, no spikes required, on some of the roads the only other vehicles I saw able to pass were the odd local in old style Panda 4x4's and snowploughs. No spikes were required on the xd. It was still returning in the mid 40's MPG. Power hardly felt different to the E46's I was used to and handling was still balanced.
BMW UK are missing a trick not selling these cars in the UK. Apart from the fact it rains there are huge swathes of the country where 4wd is almost a necessity for a good third of the year.
On winter tyres I drove a 330xd to the Hintertux glacier in Austria, no spikes required, on some of the roads the only other vehicles I saw able to pass were the odd local in old style Panda 4x4's and snowploughs. No spikes were required on the xd. It was still returning in the mid 40's MPG. Power hardly felt different to the E46's I was used to and handling was still balanced.
BMW UK are missing a trick not selling these cars in the UK. Apart from the fact it rains there are huge swathes of the country where 4wd is almost a necessity for a good third of the year.
I have significant experience with RWD (and BMW vehicles) and also have spent a lot of my life driving (professionally) in conditions that the ix line up is designed to drive in. You may think I am talking garbage but I can assure you the reason BMW do not sell this vehicle in the UK is because there is no market for it.
If you are struggling to put the power down in a 330i in the wet then you need to think about how you are delivering that power - IME with 230bhp and decent rear tyres the DSC should be able to handle even the wettest conditions. In the newer 330i with 265bhp drives even better due to more advanced DSC and ABS system from the 6 series, yes it can be provoked but if you modulate the throttle/steering sensibly then its not a problem and you can still make good progress without hurling yourself into a tree "just because you don’t have four wheel drive".
austen_wrx - if you are having problems driving in the conditions you are describing then give Hugh a call at Cadence Driver Development (Cadence Driver Development - Dedicated to the Art of Driving) he can take you for a session out at Millbrook on the large skid pan.
16 October 2006, 09:14 AM
#18
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by billythekid
austen_wrx - if you are having problems driving in the conditions you are describing then give Hugh a call at Cadence Driver Development (Cadence Driver Development - Dedicated to the Art of Driving) he can take you for a session out at Millbrook on the large skid pan.
The A6 just doesn't give any feed back or grip at the front end in the damp/wet conditions and doesn't inspire confidence, Yes i'd rather have a rear wheel wheel drive car than front wheel drive, but i'd also prefer a 4x4 car to a rear wheel drive car for driving in these conditions. What ever you say, a good 4x4 car will give you more grip in these conditions than rear.
16 October 2006, 12:53 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its traction that you are after not grip - but I know what you mean and yes I agree, clearly, 4 wheels driven will give much more traction over 2 wheels driven.
Audis are known for their understeer (AWD or FWD) so I know what you are saying. The latest A4 keeps a north south engine configuration even in FWD models now to try and keep the weight towards the centre and reduce this problem.
Maybe look at something like a Jag x-type estate with AWD?
TBH if you want something thats going to handle and is not going to have intrusive computer control or diffs then you are looking at a Subaru or Mitsubishi, esp if it must have a decent boot.
Audis are known for their understeer (AWD or FWD) so I know what you are saying. The latest A4 keeps a north south engine configuration even in FWD models now to try and keep the weight towards the centre and reduce this problem.
Maybe look at something like a Jag x-type estate with AWD?
TBH if you want something thats going to handle and is not going to have intrusive computer control or diffs then you are looking at a Subaru or Mitsubishi, esp if it must have a decent boot.
16 October 2006, 01:10 PM
#20
BANNED
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by billythekid
Winter tyres eh.. I think you will find they are significantly different to summer tyres we use here in the UK.
I have significant experience with RWD (and BMW vehicles) and also have spent a lot of my life driving (professionally) in conditions that the ix line up is designed to drive in. You may think I am talking garbage but I can assure you the reason BMW do not sell this vehicle in the UK is because there is no market for it.
If you are struggling to put the power down in a 330i in the wet then you need to think about how you are delivering that power - IME with 230bhp and decent rear tyres the DSC should be able to handle even the wettest conditions. In the newer 330i with 265bhp drives even better due to more advanced DSC and ABS system from the 6 series, yes it can be provoked but if you modulate the throttle/steering sensibly then its not a problem and you can still make good progress without hurling yourself into a tree "just because you don’t have four wheel drive".
austen_wrx - if you are having problems driving in the conditions you are describing then give Hugh a call at Cadence Driver Development (Cadence Driver Development - Dedicated to the Art of Driving) he can take you for a session out at Millbrook on the large skid pan.
I have significant experience with RWD (and BMW vehicles) and also have spent a lot of my life driving (professionally) in conditions that the ix line up is designed to drive in. You may think I am talking garbage but I can assure you the reason BMW do not sell this vehicle in the UK is because there is no market for it.
If you are struggling to put the power down in a 330i in the wet then you need to think about how you are delivering that power - IME with 230bhp and decent rear tyres the DSC should be able to handle even the wettest conditions. In the newer 330i with 265bhp drives even better due to more advanced DSC and ABS system from the 6 series, yes it can be provoked but if you modulate the throttle/steering sensibly then its not a problem and you can still make good progress without hurling yourself into a tree "just because you don’t have four wheel drive".
austen_wrx - if you are having problems driving in the conditions you are describing then give Hugh a call at Cadence Driver Development (Cadence Driver Development - Dedicated to the Art of Driving) he can take you for a session out at Millbrook on the large skid pan.
Some good points there although none apply whatsoever in regards to what I was talking about.
There are times when, of course, you have to use the right pedal judiciously because traction is poor. The point being there is no need to use such modulation with the 'x' series E46. I for one wasn't talking about a situation where you would 'hurl yourself into a tree', merely times when it would be possible to progress faster and in more safety with a 4 wheel drive car. For example a poorly surfaced, muddy and wet typical UK B road. ASC+TC is no substitution for having all wheels driven.
Furthermore I think you're underestimating the demand for a car like an 'x driven' E90. Large swathes of the UK are places where weather conditions can be marginal for most of the year. More or less the whole of Scotland outside major cities springs to mind. I can't see that producing a RHD version of a car freely available in LHD markets would be a significant cost. It could actually create a new niche for BMW in the 'touring' category.
Fitted with winter tyres (which are obviously different to the summer tyres typically fitted by your average clueless Brit driver year round) the ix series can handle some of the worst weathe conditions you can imagine. It is far more confidence inspiring that VW's 4motion system for example.
BMW are missing a trick here, althouh I suppose they'd need to jack the car up and stick plastic cladding on it to meet the UK's poor tastes. BMW Allroad anybody?
16 October 2006, 01:17 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Torpid
More or less all that is utter garbage. For a start the 4wd is very useful in any low traction situation and as it rains a lot in the UK I'd suggest that even on summer tyres it provides greater security than rwd. Ever tried to really put down the power from a 330i in the wet? Wheelspin is the result even with the ASC+TC on- never mind the diesel with it's monster torque.
On winter tyres I drove a 330xd to the Hintertux glacier in Austria, no spikes required, on some of the roads the only other vehicles I saw able to pass were the odd local in old style Panda 4x4's and snowploughs. No spikes were required on the xd. It was still returning in the mid 40's MPG. Power hardly felt different to the E46's I was used to and handling was still balanced.
BMW UK are missing a trick not selling these cars in the UK. Apart from the fact it rains there are huge swathes of the country where 4wd is almost a necessity for a good third of the year.
On winter tyres I drove a 330xd to the Hintertux glacier in Austria, no spikes required, on some of the roads the only other vehicles I saw able to pass were the odd local in old style Panda 4x4's and snowploughs. No spikes were required on the xd. It was still returning in the mid 40's MPG. Power hardly felt different to the E46's I was used to and handling was still balanced.
BMW UK are missing a trick not selling these cars in the UK. Apart from the fact it rains there are huge swathes of the country where 4wd is almost a necessity for a good third of the year.
I actually like the look of them outside as well, although i know they are not to everyones taste. Its the shame the cabins are so old fashioned
16 October 2006, 01:22 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 952
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a Scot living in the wilds of my country, owning a "powerful rwd BMW" and a couple of 4WD cars, my confidence is higher in the 4WD than the BM but that is down to my limited abilities probably.
In the wet the BM has to be respected and the 4wd's just dont pay attention to the weather (almost).
My own opinion is that a 530d/535d "X" in the UK has more to do with hurting X5 sales than being suitable for the market. imho.
In the wet the BM has to be respected and the 4wd's just dont pay attention to the weather (almost).
My own opinion is that a 530d/535d "X" in the UK has more to do with hurting X5 sales than being suitable for the market. imho.
16 October 2006, 01:47 PM
#24
BANNED
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by WHEELSHOP0_0
As a Scot living in the wilds of my country, owning a "powerful rwd BMW" and a couple of 4WD cars, my confidence is higher in the 4WD than the BM but that is down to my limited abilities probably.
In the wet the BM has to be respected and the 4wd's just dont pay attention to the weather (almost).
My own opinion is that a 530d/535d "X" in the UK has more to do with hurting X5 sales than being suitable for the market. imho.
In the wet the BM has to be respected and the 4wd's just dont pay attention to the weather (almost).
My own opinion is that a 530d/535d "X" in the UK has more to do with hurting X5 sales than being suitable for the market. imho.
16 October 2006, 02:03 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
not just beemers
Originally Posted by Torpid
My 'powerful' 330ci was unuseable in the snow, it couldn't even make it out of the garage slope without disabling the electronics, use of 2nd gear and a lot of cluthc slipping. A product of 255 rear section summer tyres as much as anything else. My feeling is that BMW's are 'over tyred' for fashion reasons, particularly in the UK.
Aust I can see you as a jag man, just make sure you select the pipe and slipper holder and patchwork blanket for the rear
16 October 2006, 03:45 PM
#26
Drag it!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Flame grilled Wagon anyone?
Posts: 9,866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by austen_wrx
cheers but i said good handling,, golf and passat don't fit the bill i'm afraid!
My brother in law swapped to one in March this year from an 03 Golf GT TDi, as he lives in the middle of the Wolds, and from now to end of March he can struggle to get out, due to mud, snow, ice etc on the road.
Having driven the car, its far better than the old one, and he swears by it, referring to his old one as a piece of sh1te by comparison. He isnt shy at driving, and down single track country lanes you need a car that can handle, especially at the pace he drives.
They really are a good car.
16 October 2006, 03:47 PM
#27
Drag it!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Flame grilled Wagon anyone?
Posts: 9,866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, he took it in for a service the other week, and to date the VW garage has not sold another one. So yes, 4x4 diesels are fairly rare, especially in the used market.
16 October 2006, 04:34 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,574
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How about this:
2006 Jaguar X-TYPE 2.2D (EU4) 4 Doors, Manual, Saloon, Diesel, 3,700 miles, Liquid Silver, 1 Owner(s), Air conditioning,Alloy wheels,Anti-lock braking system (ABS),Automatic climate control,17" alloy wheels,Chrome grille surround,Drivers airbag,Electric heated door mirrors,Electric rear windows,Electric seats,Electric windows,Front fog lamps,Headlamp levelling,Heated rear window,Jaguar Traction AWD,Passenger airbag,Security system,Side airbags,Sports seats,Touring suspension,Remote ICE controls,High mounted stop lamp,CD tuner,Chrome boot plinth,Curtain airbags,Adjustable steering column,Rear folding armrest,Rear head restraints,Leather gear ****,Leather steering wheel. £17,995. 0870 4137433. Appleyard Jaguar Bradford.
I would not go for a new Jag, they depreciate too much! But used they can be a good buy. There must be about 6 or 7 on AT.
2006 Jaguar X-TYPE 2.2D (EU4) 4 Doors, Manual, Saloon, Diesel, 3,700 miles, Liquid Silver, 1 Owner(s), Air conditioning,Alloy wheels,Anti-lock braking system (ABS),Automatic climate control,17" alloy wheels,Chrome grille surround,Drivers airbag,Electric heated door mirrors,Electric rear windows,Electric seats,Electric windows,Front fog lamps,Headlamp levelling,Heated rear window,Jaguar Traction AWD,Passenger airbag,Security system,Side airbags,Sports seats,Touring suspension,Remote ICE controls,High mounted stop lamp,CD tuner,Chrome boot plinth,Curtain airbags,Adjustable steering column,Rear folding armrest,Rear head restraints,Leather gear ****,Leather steering wheel. £17,995. 0870 4137433. Appleyard Jaguar Bradford.
I would not go for a new Jag, they depreciate too much! But used they can be a good buy. There must be about 6 or 7 on AT.
17 October 2006, 08:34 PM
#29
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 3,282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by billythekid
How about this:
2006 Jaguar X-TYPE 2.2D (EU4) 4 Doors, Manual, Saloon, Diesel, 3,700 miles, Liquid Silver, 1 Owner(s), Air conditioning,Alloy wheels,Anti-lock braking system (ABS),Automatic climate control,17" alloy wheels,Chrome grille surround,Drivers airbag,Electric heated door mirrors,Electric rear windows,Electric seats,Electric windows,Front fog lamps,Headlamp levelling,Heated rear window,Jaguar Traction AWD,Passenger airbag,Security system,Side airbags,Sports seats,Touring suspension,Remote ICE controls,High mounted stop lamp,CD tuner,Chrome boot plinth,Curtain airbags,Adjustable steering column,Rear folding armrest,Rear head restraints,Leather gear ****,Leather steering wheel. £17,995. 0870 4137433. Appleyard Jaguar Bradford.
I would not go for a new Jag, they depreciate too much! But used they can be a good buy. There must be about 6 or 7 on AT.
2006 Jaguar X-TYPE 2.2D (EU4) 4 Doors, Manual, Saloon, Diesel, 3,700 miles, Liquid Silver, 1 Owner(s), Air conditioning,Alloy wheels,Anti-lock braking system (ABS),Automatic climate control,17" alloy wheels,Chrome grille surround,Drivers airbag,Electric heated door mirrors,Electric rear windows,Electric seats,Electric windows,Front fog lamps,Headlamp levelling,Heated rear window,Jaguar Traction AWD,Passenger airbag,Security system,Side airbags,Sports seats,Touring suspension,Remote ICE controls,High mounted stop lamp,CD tuner,Chrome boot plinth,Curtain airbags,Adjustable steering column,Rear folding armrest,Rear head restraints,Leather gear ****,Leather steering wheel. £17,995. 0870 4137433. Appleyard Jaguar Bradford.
I would not go for a new Jag, they depreciate too much! But used they can be a good buy. There must be about 6 or 7 on AT.
