lowlander

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with modern cars? As much as I would always run a modern car for comfort, safety and reliability purposes I would love to have a classic as a second car and weekend toy.

Older cars were simpler, lighter, better looking, better sounding (especially with twin carbs) and much easier and cheaper to maintain. There were no electronics, simple electrics and robust mechanicals (well maybe not all the time!).

Anyone else miss the back to basics design and engineering?

Martin.

2000TLondon

Definetly, I really miss my old MGB! And my Dad's Austin Healey and Triumph Stag! They were the days! As you say, ownership is so much easier with modern cars, but you have to sacrifice the style and character!

As far as a weekend toy goes, if you have storage there is nothing stopping you, a good condition MG will cost you next to nothing!

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

That's why I can't let go of my Strada 130TC, despite it being work in progress for 5 yrs.

D

brickboy

My old BGT V8 was a corker, ran it as a daily driver for over two years.

OK I spent about 700 quid on servicing and bits in that time, but most of these were "consumables" because the previous owner hardly ever drove it -- tyres, replacing the sticking front calipers, front dampers, propshaft UJ, S/S exhaust (what a sound when you booted it in 3rd ).

And of course it was on classic insurance of under £200 per year so that saving paid for the extra servicing. Only thing that broke was the fuel pump (a common problem with Bs).

Senior_AP

MODERN CARS ARE ****E.

You have to spend a packet to get anything that is any different than the next high sided mini MPV type rubbish that is flooding the market.

However, as a Vectra owner I don't really give two ***** cos cars are expensive wastes of time and money.


# My Vectra - cheap, reliable <touches wood> and does it all well.

# My Pug - Fast, loud, fun.


Anything else doesn't interest me, i apreciate Ferrari's etc for their beauty bit these days consider them largely pointless.

BUT, hay-ho it's Thursday and the weekend is nearly here.

Bollox to all ya.

sonu

LOL

SupaMiniCupa

I run a Honda Civic 1.4 which is great, cheap as chips, ultra reliable. And warm!!

My Mini is waaaay more fun though!

Mica Blue

There are many times I wished I had a more modern car, but no new car can match my two Minis for the fun factor..

pics:
http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums...post&id=159617
http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums...post&id=159619

Gutmann pug

Nice looking 1275GT there matey.

I love older cars too.

Gary

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Agree entirely.

There is nothing currently out there (barring kit cars) that has that bare bones seat of your pants driving experience. Everything is tailored to the "average" human. Back in the day, they built the car, and you were expected to somehow fit inside it and drive it, now it's more the other way round. And in doing so, removes any challange to driving, and any individuality. In other words - makes it boring.

I find myself drawn to the classic car pages more and more as a I search for a car that actually has some form of sensation of speed below 80mph. That you needed to "work" to get the best perfomance out of it. Even if it wasn't very fast, if it feels fast, it's far more fun that doing 100mph and feeling like your doing 30mph.

I hate power steering, I am yet to drive a PAS car that has perfect feel, weighting and loading up on bends. I also disapprove of over-assisted servo brakes, I hate that feeling of treading on a sponge and then literally being thrown through the windscreen as the effort is completely disproportionate to the actual braking force. Sure I can adapt and drive like I have no form of muscles in my arms or legs - but where's the fun or challange in being able to steer with your little finger?

I also miss the throttle response of a well setup pair of webers, EFi is "supposed" to be as quick, but it never feels it (emissions control affecting enrichment, I guess). Add to that pretty much all modern engines barring diesels are dead below 3000rpm (for emissions and economy), and show "peaky" behaviour compared to older engines which seemed to have a flatter power curve, starting much earlier in the rev range, with a gradual drop at high revs.

As a side issue, I also think it plays a part in why the driving standards in this country have fell dramatically IMO. Modern cars are very easy to drive, and give such a poor sensation of speed of travel, and thus people drive them like they were sitting at a desk at work, taking everything for granted (handling, grip, traction, brakes, basic laws of physics etc.) Then look all confused when they crash (or nearly crash) and then blame the car or some other external factor rather than their crap driving.

struv

my missis runs a 1982 porsch 944 she loves it i fix it

dsmith

Which is exactly why I've spent the morning spraying my 73 MG Midget

had it @ Uni 12+ years ago. Not really been on the road for the last 7/8 years....but it will be back this spring. Cant wait.

The whole "retro" - modified - classic thing seems to be taking off in a big way. K series conversion for a Midget can be done with an "off-the-shelf" kit of parts now. A few bike engined and Zetec examples around aswell.

flynnstudio

PLEASE stop this thread - I've a new scooby which I love but I am finding myself driving down the road constantly comparing it to my classic 1984 911 Carrera Coupe...

I wrote a long list of comparisons but I decided to delete them - that old 911 wins virtually every one of them!. It made very uncomfortable reading!

Let's just leave it at "that car was a work of pure genius"

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Mk2 Golf GTI, good halfway house between modern/dull and old/crumbling.

Petem95

I'd love an MGB V8!!! Navy blue, crome bumper model, wire wheels!!! *dreaming*

Classics probably make sense in some cases due to depreciation not really being a problem, but I think the main think which would put me off regular use would be safety, but in terms of avoiding an accident and protection in one.

Brendan Hughes

My first car was a Dutton Phaeton kit car, on Escort Mk I/II internals.

A laugh to drive, but I ended up spending more time working on it than driving it.

But VERY true what Ali-B says - just no fun driving at legal speeds in a modern car. Even at the time, I borrowed a colleague's brand new MR2 MkII, and thought I was doing 40 when I was doing 80. The Dutton was rather the opposite!

I'm told an MX5 might come close (never tried one) - fun with reliability. Otherwise, I'll take something like a honda-engined Caterham if I may.

Problem is, every fifth car round here is a sodding great jeep or pickup with a crap driver at the wheel. A low car would soon become a coffin

Olly

You can dodge the taxman by owning a classic as a company car too, as you only pay company car tax based on the original list price. Weren't new E-types around £1500 new??

Franx2

I'm just weighing up whether or not I should get another old Land Rover...

I doubt it's a good idea in the financial sense, as most of these things aren't, but it would be very useful for towing and generally carting stuff around. Anyway, they're far more interesting than MPVs. I refuse ever to have one of those, just out of principle Except perhaps that Espace F1, but that's kinda different

Old Land Rovers are good. To put it one way, can anyone see a Rav4 or even an X5 still being in good working order in 30 or 40 years time? And would anyone be capable of, or even have the slightest desire to restore them when they eventually went wrong? I think not

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

I would love a Austin Healy 3000, beautiful car
Cheers
Colin

flynnstudio

Agree 100% mate!...

I've had 3 mgb's - my wife sneers at them - I still yearn for another - the sound, the 'throw' and 'pitch' of the thing, the near horizontal driving position - flicking the overdrive on the gearstick and thrumming another 500rpm into action, balancing the carbs with a piece of plastic pipe to your ear!

Happy days!

I've already been contemplating the viability of disengaging the PAS on my scoob...it's so bloody twitchy - you can't get a feel for the 'weight' of the car...

davyboy

Completely agree, modern cars are dull.

Driving on older car is much more special, wheeling it out of the garage every Sunday for a drive.......on the Nordschleife

Also overtaking Jap Crap in a 15 year old car is fun too Long live the 944

spufus

iTrader: (2)

I had the pleasure of driving a series 2A a few weeks ago - felt and drove exactly the same as when I first drove one in 19**!!! Splendid!

Mind you, I learned to drive on a grey fergie!!

Brendan Hughes

Rav4 is Toyota, so you might get a surprise there

There are quite a few Toyota BJ40s around. If comparing to X5, that's a luxury car - so how many old Range Rovers are still driving around reliably?

Franx2

Mine was for one Until I sold it.....

Probably right, but would anyone have the desire to eventually restore an old Rav4 when it came round to it? Do the cars of today have the same kind of 'character' that would make us want to keep them for years and years, and keep on mending them? I'm not yet convinced, but I'd have done so with my old Rangie, if I'd bought it at the right time

That said, it's not quite a fair comparison, as they probably didn't make Toyota 4x4s & the like, when Land Rover made their first cars.....

Brendan Hughes

Do you know, for years I've heard people talking about "character" in a car, and I've come to the conclusion that it's a euphemism for "imperfection". Isn't that odd? Designers spend billions to make the perfect car, yet (certain) people wouldn't want it as it doesn't have character - ie the dashboard doesn't squeak, or the seats don't fall back when you try to adjust them, or it doesn't suddenly step out of line and try and kill you round a bend.

Maybe they should set up the production line for the perfect car, run off half a million for the general public, and then take 10 000 of them to one side; they could randomly **** up the suspension geometry, loosen a few bolts a few turns in the interior, scratch off some of the galvanising in crucial places and pre-corrode the odd electrical contact, and badge it the "Character" edition

I dunno - I spent so much time under that bloody Dutton in the freezing weather and rain (changing the front drums to discs on the drive in January FFS), I really don't want to work on cars any more, I'm very happy to have one that does what it says on the tin.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I hate that term character too. I often hear people say Subarus have character (like classic car owners). But imo it is completely devoid of any. If they saying the "surge of power" as it comes on to boost is character. Then yes I agree with the logic...it is a flaw...often know as turbo lag, which mean it's crap for a real world driver

I think the beauty of old Land Rovers and Rangies alike compared to modern counterparts is the DIY simplicity. The reason why they are still on the road is because they can so easily and cheaply fixed, and can be retrofitted with whatever you can find in the scrap yard creating all sorts of frankenstien Landys. I'm yet to see that with a RAV4

Karl 227

I agree with Davyboy, this is my Dad racing at the Nürburgring last year with 400bhp, in the wet

Franx2

I know what you mean about the word 'character' tbh I remember trying to work out exactly what it meant once, and came to a similar conclusion - maybe a standard car, but it has a few things which make it stand out in some way from others perhaps. Personalisation (if that's a word ) is maybe the word for it - but not in a Max Power way..... In fact, I've still no idea

A friend of mine once had an oldish Range Rover, which he'd converted to a Perkins Diesel, but following that, had added a pickup back to it, and another set of wheels, making it a 6x4. It looked pretty terrible, but it was interesting, and it wasn't a bad car really Shame I've no pictures of it. Never seen that with a Jap 4x4, although I'm sure it's been done. There's a Range Rover cabrio knocking around West Kirby as well which I've seen a few times. Slightly strange, but at least the guy's made an interesting car out of it

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

If you ever work that out, put a post up in projects....I asked in technical a few years back if anyone knew how to make it heavier without throwing wads of cash for an Sti manual or a quick rack. I did plan on putting some sort of pressure relief by-pass (as per kits available for jags). Just never had the guts to try it out.

I've seen a fair few oddities based on Landys too

My mate's Landy is a hybrid SIIA with a 4.6 v8, Holley carb, coil springs, disc brakes and a 4 speed autobox....it drives like a Classic Range Rover (just faster) which is very civilised compared to a normal series Landy.

Mine is a more moddest SIIA lightweight, with the obligatory 3.5 v8, and Rover P5 3speed auto - bolted to a series transfer box and a Fairey overdrive. It shouldn't work, but it does I didn't convert it - some mad welshman did, its been like that for almost 30years now! The current engine came out of a 6x4 Rangy which was in a sorry state.

Some of the off road days I've been too involved almost as much time spent peering under everyone elses bonnet to see what they've done and how they did it - I rarely see two quite the same (unless stock, of course)

RobinSherwood

You certainly can't beat the fun of owning a Classic Car. Though each one is so different and some are hideously complex. One of mine broke down on a classic event, had 6 RAC men standing round the open engine cover all shaking their heads, scared off by the 4 webers etc.,.. - turned out the fuel pump had failed and no one noticed it has 2, so could have just flicked a switch and caried on. The high pressure hydraulics can be a bit of nightmare - especially if they fail completely. Fantastic car though.

My favourite though is my Sunbeam Tiger - all the benefits of an MGB V8 but comes as original as a convertible, more power and far far rarer. The endless fun of the bemused look on the other driver's face when he can't understand why that 'odd' looking old sportscar isn't disappearing in the rear view mirror as he accelerates away. The glorious sound of the V8. Much better track car than many would give credit too when properly set up as well.

Regards,

Robin