mozzaITA

Well, my car is a ***** 2 with viper, kit, de cat exhaust and chip, my brothers car is recently re built GT3, decatted and panel filter....

We both drive each others cars but we both cant decide which is quicker to 60 and generally quicker.. sounds dumb dont it!! i think mine has the edge but the punto is in A1 mechanical condition and has great torque!!

On paper what should win....?
I guess a duel is in order!!! lol

Jon B

You'll have to line them up!

I'd back the *****, especially once you throw a few corners into the equation!

brickboy

Agreed -- in a straight line I'd want the Punto, on a track I'd want the Clio.

Both good pocket rockets tho'

mozzaITA

Forgot to mention although my ****** handling (oohh err) is amazing the braking capabilities are more or less on par with a vauxhall nova... Cant belive these cars are so under braked, previous owner spent lots of money tring to rectorfy them but to little success, speaking to sum other owners generally the brakes arnt great!! shame, think i need sum 4 pots!!!

Andy M3

Hasn't the Punto got some torque restrictor in 1st ? either way I would rather be in the Clio irrespective of the drag results.

mozzaITA

Especially around then bends, i do a route to work called the 'croocked mile' its a mini rally stage, the bends are amazing, the clio makes no fuss and flys round them, i catch every car around them bends. Punto has got a good torque spread and decent accelleration and it dont handle that badly but not in same league!

Jonto

I would say GT3, they are not as bad as everyone says in the handling stakes, even when standard.

From what i can remember i don;t think the Pierburg limits boosts in first gear, even if it does it would make any difference, how many races do you take part in and ever use first gear.

ScoobyJawa

Clio regarded as the next finest hot hatch after the 205 GTi, so I'd take the Clio every day of the week and twice on Sunday

TheJesus

if both A1 the ***** should have the legs pretty easily I would have thought... even the uprated turbo seb 4.1 setups cant match the *****'s running cams. best I have seen from the Punto's is 14.3's or around there... *****'s are constantly getting 14.00, some standard engined freaks are getting 14.1 with just basic breathing mods... as for handling... LOL

mozzaITA

Mine breaths alright.... must have loudest induction/exhaust noise ever... viper plus devil exhaust with decatt....

birtywrx

mate had a gt3, and it was a monster! we raced a lancia delta integrale, left hooker, and there was nothing in it! and a integra! couldnt believe it!! vastly underated in my opinion, hes got a 172 cup now, and reckons the punt was quicker! even though the clio handles out of this world! thanks to a set of H&R's

mozzaITA

I drive both weekly, handling wise is a no brainer.... But the Punto is much easier to drive quicker around the 'town' (if that makes sense) but give my williams some open roads and the thing is pretty quick banging through the gears, not sure if that is down to the mods or whot... Im amazing how it pulls all the way over 6k rpm strange!

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

My mrs had a normal clio 16v but with some headwork, cams, induction, exhaust. Went ok (when it reached 5krpm +)

I hated that car though! everything was suffering like a > than 1 year old french car does I tried to keep her away from one, but she wanted it

I prefer turbo power delivery (she's now got a starlet gt turbo) and it's a much easier car to husstle along. Suits her more too because the only time the clio saw the powerband was when I was driving lol

Incidentally the starlet is a 1990 and it's soo sweet, engine is still a dream, goes really well, only thing that's packed up is the rear wiper motor. Clio was a constant headache for me.

Jonto

I had a Clio cup also, and would be suprised to find out that my GT3 was probably quicker.

The punto was a great car to own, shame the same can't be said for the clio.

mozzaITA

Why is the clio not such a great car to own over the punto gt???..... my brothers gt3 was bought with 16k miles on it 2 years ago but in the last year we spent nearly £2000 on it!!!.... exhaust went the the cam went which needed a whole top end rebuild, servicing, breaks etc all this on a low milage car, whereas my clio ive had for 4 months and hasnt cost me anything 'YET'. SO i would say that on this occasion the punto wasnt such a great car to own was it!!

nisr227

Clio Williams has character, handling and a reputation as one of the finiest drivers hot hatches ever, you could put up with the lack of build quality as a result, in fact the engine itself can take a lot of abuse. I agree about the brakes, mate of mine from a few years back use to track his all the time, and the willwood 4 pots were his best mod.

.......the Punto GT on the other hand.......er, its a Fiat, but putting that aside, I don't care how fast it could be it didn't appeal when I drove one years back, and still doesn't even with mods.

People diss french cars and their reliability but I had no problems thrashing my T reg Gti-6 around for a few years, sold it with 109k miles on the clock in the end and it still drove strong against cars like 172s with hardly any problems, just made sure I changed the cambelt more often with the miles. Thinking of getting a 306 Rallye as a trackday car next year.

As for a drag race, as a rough example try putting the new modified figures into my sites performance calculator, and maybe check the 60-100 times out for rolling performance...
www.letstorquebhp.com

Jonto

Ya pays ya money, ya take your chance.

All i can say is i gave my GT3 hell, modified it, nailed it everywhere for 3 years inc track days, it was great fun and it gave me no problem.

My 172 cup on the other hand fell apart when it rained, was gutless and just didn't deliver. I won't even comment on the dealers.

My punto and scoob are the best cars i have ever owned.

TheJesus

Sounds like you were just lucky with the Punto and unlucky with the Cup mate. I've spent LOADS on keeping my Williams on the road, but other people have not had so much as a problem with theirs... most have more miles too :S

a lot of it is down to luck... or lack of...

mozzaITA

Jesus you are right, look how much bad luck we've had with our low millage punto!!.... all bout luck me thinks

TheJesus

To sum up...

Williams in general I would say are fairly well put together, not the best, but I don't have any rattles in mine 11 years on 83k later. Performance is underated as standard, but with basic breathing mods the better ones will pull mid 14's.
As for reliability mine has been a nightmare, but nearly every other ***** owner has next to no problems apart from usual tin rot on the arches and minor things failing in the engine bay (alternator and starter motor's are common). The block and head are bullet proof, it's the rest of it that's not basically. Main thing with these cars is find a decent garage that can actually fix the car without reverting to the Haynes manual, as I kid you not, i've spent about £3-4k out over what I should and could have paid to have work done on the car...

As for the Punto, **** knows... never really driven one, but have been in one and it's handling was borderline dangerous imo... felt like it would tip over... performance I'd imaging would be better on the road, but only with heavy tuning. As said, the Seb 4.1 boys only seem to be able to get around 14.2-14.3 at best, but have slightly quicker terminals than the *****... but above 100 I'd expect them to run out of steam a bit anyway... could be wrong...

172gaz

i am his said person, and a the mo i get about 2-3 weeks good motoring out the clio, then a fault.... sayin to birt today 'touch wood me cars been ok since its had a steering rack (on a 52 plate !!!!) within ten miles, i lost the dash lights, the pipe had popped off me washer jets and the fuel rail pipe developed a leak all fixed now......

punto on the other hand was nailed everyday, (properly warmed up etc) runnig approx 170, quicker than the cup in a straight line and only needed a clutch @ 80 thou, wish i never sold it

scoobmeister

I'd go for the Williams any day, had one for 3 years great car, Never had one thing go wrong with it,

Ayde

iTrader: (6)

I used to have a GT3 full de-cat, k&n 57i, suspension, uprated brakes etc... Had a go with a Williams once in a straight line from traffic lights(not sure on spec but it had a stainless system and sounded like an induction kit) and there wasnt much in it, about equal just felt the GT had a bit of an edge on it? I found that the GT would run great and feel really responsive most days but occaisionally had its off days when it couldnt be ar$ed!!! Italian cars eh!
I found the best way for fast starts was plenty of revs and second gear.
Handling wise I found once I uprated the springs, brakes and fitted 15's with 195/50 15's it was a different car and it gave me a lot of confidence in it and would let you know when it was getting close to its limits.
It was driven hard every day - had it 2.5 years only prob was the rear trailing arm bushes but this was a known fault and expected and the handbrake cable freezing up every winter! Wish I had never sold it now - sold it for peanuts to get the scoob!
Main prob with the GT is that you redline at 55ish in second IIRC unless you fit wheels/tyres that will slightly increase the rolling radius slightly, so on paper they aint to good 0-60 up to 100 once moving though it was fairly rapid, overboost in 5th was fun to!

There used to be a fella on the forum I used to go on called James Hans IIRC his GT was pretty impressive think the reg was KL8 XON - anyone know if this car is still knocking around?

hoyleyboyley

iTrader: (3)

KLAXON went to the scrap heap in the sky after james spent HUGE amounts of money and had a slight miscalculation with piston sizes - it promptly lasted 1000 miles before consuming itself - he had enough of it by that pont and sold it on - it never went well again and ended up getting broken for parts

quickest UK GT ATM is a stealth install, one of the guys has fitted a fiat coupe engine (2l 16VT) with lots of shiny go-faster bits, currently pushing 250hp on low boost (8psi IIRC?)

TheJesus

yeah seen this one, iirc it's only on 12-13 PSI and CAN AND WILL soon be running 20 PSI... which will apparently take over 300bhp... nice!

Jonto

That was exactly the same as mine.

mozzaITA

How anoying is the handbrake freezing, its caught us out a couple of times!!!... is there a quick fix apart from not putting it on when its gunna be really cold???