the moose

Trying to find a good 2002 manual Touring version of the above - rare as wooden equine waste.

Anyone know of one for sale (and yes, I've looked in Autotrader)

TurboMav

Have a look on ebay... worth a try

MattOz

They are rare as! The nearest I could find was a 525d Sport Tourer on a 52 plate at a BMW dealers. It was £18k with 52k miles on it. In silver with anthracite trim. Not a bad looking car.

Matt

Tiggs

rare...cause no one wants them- have you tested an auto? be far eaiser to sell on (and a better car)

Paul_M

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

How exactly is it a better car? More features? Quicker? Better fuel consumption? Not the last time I checked. So if someone wants a manual version, what exactly are they getting in return for the sacrifice on their choice of gearbox that makes it better?

I wouldn't touch a sludgebox with a bargepole, regardless of how easy it may be to sell it on. If that's a major criteria for buying a car you'll be better off with something like a focus as I doubt you'd have much of a problem selling one of those (except maybe if it has a sludgebox).

Paul (a good few years under 60 with full use of all 4 limbs, hence both my 540i and 840Ci have 6-speed manual boxes )

Tiggs

More features? yes..its has an auto box
Quicker? about the same
Fuel? worse.....but you'll save it come resale!

Have you spent anytime in a BMW auto? I would no more have a manual box than manual windows!

What do you gain by electing to HAVE to control the gear change (as opposed to the auto where you can choose to shift yourself of leave it in auto)

Paul_M

Yeah you can choose to shift yourself but it feels totally unconnected. With a manual it's all about being in control of the car, even if you're not Michael Schumacher with the millisecond-perfect shifts.

Don't worry, I'm sure the car with automatic steering will be along soon. And I'm equally sure you'll be banging on about how it's inherently superior to allowing us pathetic humans to steer and that you'd no more have manual steering than manually controlled brakes (not sure if your cars still have such a retro feature, you know the kind where you have to decide when you want to slow down and press a pedal with your foot? Pretty crude I agree but I like it).

Have you ever thought about a chauffeur? You could kill off all those horrible manual aspects of the car in one fell swoop! You won't even have to press a button to open the window (pah, how the peasants live), absolutely everything becomes voice-activated

Time for bed Miss Daisy

TheBigMan

Quality

eldudereno

Unless you've lost the use of your left leg I'd have the manual every time.

The driving experience is so remote with an auto bimmer.

s70rjw

iTrader: (2)

Surely the fact that most Beemers other than 3 series and M cars come with auto as standard speaks volumes about what most BMW buyers want. Bob

gso

agree with s70rjw.... who in a 5 series diesel estate is going to worry about being connected with the car and road?

Guinness

iTrader: (1)

I've got a 330d auto sport,and after driving my mates 6 speed 330d,i know i made the right choice.I was a bit worried about it at the time,but when you get used to it it's the dogs..........Alan..........

Tiggs

Is this post for real?????

You want a diesel estate car.....then you talk about "being connected to the road" and "remote feel".......its not an M5!

99% of the time an aout change is better...in the sense that it makes no difference to the drive when you shift so why bother. So you buy a diesel load lugger with a gear box designed for 1% of your driving...............isn't it amazing that there aren't more about!

Paul_M

It's called compromise. Not everyone can afford a fleet of cars such as a Noble or Exige for fun, a diesel for racking up the miles and a wagon for nipping down to B & Q. So unfortunately you're assumption that anyone buying a diesel estate car couldn't care less about the driving experience is rather short sighted.

Personally I'm happy to pay the high fuel costs of a 4.4 litre petrol car that averages low 20s MPG, and I seldom need to carry anything large so a 2-door car suits me fine. Aren't I the lucky one? But if I had other needs (let's take a wild example of better fuel economy and more space) I wouldn't just think "oh well this is going to be such an univolving drive anyway that I might as well make it even more uninvolving and get the sludgebox". We don't all have the means nor the desire to buy an M5 (although at least we have the ability to drive such a crude, demanding car with that horrid stick between the seats), but you can still enjoy driving many cars with nice steering feedback and handling. It's one of the reasons the 5-series is much praised over the Audi A6, but obviously those reviews are nonsense cos you can't enjoy driving anything less than an M5

Is your post for real? The original poster comes on specifically stating Trying to find a good 2002 manual Touring... which part of want or manual did you not understand? Or did the tobacco smoke from your pipe obscure your view of that part?

Fat Boy

My friend runs a 530D tourer with M suspension and an auto box. It's a fantastic car and the latest auto boxes an dhow they work just cannot be dismissed with the sort of rubbish that Paul M is coming out with. Drive one for a while and you'll realise that your preconceptions are twenty years out of date. BTW the friend I am talking about rallies a prodrive built impreza in the BRTDA rally championship so is an enthusiastic driver and not some sort of 60 year civil servant type.

Tiggs

As above.....i went from a TVR to a 540 Sport Auto, the BMW was superb and the drive was, in many ways, more involving than the TVR's.

Interestingly, I drove an Audi with the DSG box recently to compare against the auto Z4 i am buying next.........the DSG was no better than the BMW's...in fact BMW box was smoother and just as fast.

MattOz

BMW autos are fantastic. To be honest the 3.0d lump is arguably better suited to an auto box than a manual. Personally I prefer 3 pedals in my car, so I have the manual. I have tried the auto and it is very impressive. In the 5, the auto is the punters choice, 99% of the time.

My next car will either be a 535d sport or an E90 335d Sport sometime in 2006. Now I want a manual, but I guess that neither car will be offered with that option. The current 535d certainly isn't. Would it stop me buying one? Certainly not.

A great car is still a great car, manual box or otherwise.

Just IMHO, clearly!

Matt

Paul_M

I have driven one, and didn't like it at all. Oh and if my preconceptions are 20 years out of date then I guess I must've picked them up when I was driving as a toddler then? I've driven very few sludgeboxes (one of which was the aforementioned BMW one with the steering wheel buttons) so tell me which wonderful car has a similarly wonderful sludgebox that will distroy this preconception I've developed of them by driving the BMW "Steptronic"? You seem to have contradicted yourself there, but I stand to be corrected.

Your presumptions about my preconceptions aren't out of date, they're just complete bullsh1t

Paul_M

Hmmmmmm...........

Last time I checked a 540i slushy was no more an M5 than a 530d touring. Big deal it's got a V8, but it's not an M5 - your words. So how can it possibly be an involving drive? Surely not buying a non-M5 model for driver involvement, that cannot be allowed to happen!

I'd imagine the manual box mates very well to the 3.0d engine, as it does with the V8, because when you want to be lazy it'll happily sit in 6th gear from anything down to 30 MPH up to 155. In fact these kind of engines make the "chore" of driving with a manual much less than less torquey engines which require far more changes to keep the revs up and make reasonable progress.

That's not to say the sludgebox isn't suited to it, but if the original poster comes on and quite clearly states he has decided that he wants a manual gearbox, can't you just answer his question instead of trying to get him to accept a car he doesn't want? What else could you suggest "nah you don't want a 530d, get a 520i it's a better car cos it's cheaper to insure"... "you don't want a touring, the saloon is a much nicer looker hence a better car".... "tell you what, give me your cash and I'll buy the car for you and I guarantee I'll pick a better car than you possibly could".

Tiggs

i didnt buy the 540 as a drivers car...i just wanted an expensive 5, my budget would have gone to an M5 but i didnt want a manual......a 540 sport is the next step down (dont like what Alpina do to BMW's)

it was just luck that the drive was also very good for a car that i didnt buy for that purpose......and would have been no better with a manual (not that there are any around because no one wants a V8 5 with the cheaper box in it)

the moose

I've driven the auto version, for heaven's sake. I know what they're like, and although I accept the gearbox is very good, it's not what I want. I like a manual, I enjoy changing gears, and this is one reason that a Merc 320 CDi is simply not on the list.

MattOz

Here you go mate!

2001 Y Reg BMW 5 SERIES 2926 cc 530D SPORT TOURING,
5 Doors, Manual, Estate, Diesel, 77,000 miles, Blue, Electric Mirrors,Electric Windows,Immobilizer,Power-Assisted Steering,Sports Seats,Remote Door Locking,Colour Coded Bumpers,Alarm,Central Locking,Air Bags,Electric Sunroof,ABS,Climate Control,Cruise Control,Leather Interior,Rear Head Rests,Front Fogs,Traction Control,Warranty. In Topaz Blue, with 17" Alloys, Full M Tech Styling Kit, etc - VERY SCARCE!!. £14,995.

Braidwood Motor Company
Dealer's Website Dealer's Location

Tel: (01506) 444422



P.S, I know it's not a 2002 model, but it's the closest I could find

the moose

Forgot to say - any form of styling kit, even the M Tech one, will have me running very hard in the opposite direction!

Paul_M

Funnily enough I have one sitting outside my parents' house. Not using it as I've bought an 840, but it certainly is around. You didn't want a V8 5 with the cheaper box, so you went for the one with the cheaper engine and overall package instead then. Nothing like a snob with second best

Paul_M

Surely not mate, you do realise that freedom of choice and free speech are condemned by certain members of Scoobynet; be careful who you communicate with

I'm prepared to face the wrath and potential consequences and state that I concur entirely with your thoughts on the manual vs slush debate

the moose

Had another go this weekend, just to convince myself that I wasn't being stupid.

After 20 miles of varied driving, I'm prepared to concede that the auto isn't as bad as I thought, but it still pisses me off massively that if I put my foot down, the gearbox has a think for half a second, then drops a gear or two.

So it's definitely the manual for me - and since I've found exactly what I'm looking for this weekend, I'm a happy chap.

Tiggs

Shows how important the right box is doesnt it....BM agree and the new M5 will have a clutchless shift.

the moose

Which made me exceptionally unhappy - the only sort of clutchless transmission I'd want would be the DSG. Instant response, no slushiness, and full control when you want it.

Paul_M

They also made it a sludgeless shift, SMG being a race-derived gearbox similar to a manual but with hydraulic activation. Makes sense for a performance car if it can shift faster without losing more power in the process.

Ever wonder why F1 cars use such a setup? Somehow I doubt they'll be moving to a sludgebox complete with torque converter (and noticable delay between pressing the button and it actually changing) any time soon.

SMG I'd consider after trying it, what you lose in driver involvement may be more than made up for with super-quick changes and the race-car "feel". I wouldn't touch a conventional sludgebox with a bargepole, its only criteria is comfort and I don't find the so-called discomfort of changing gear to be anywhere near enough to make up for the lack of involvement.

Paul_M

I should add, if the new M5 has the "right" box, does that mean that your 540 with its sludgey has the "wrong" box? Oh dear, after accepting second best with the hope of the "right" box, looks like you've been stung and have a nasty power-sapping torque converter hidden in there when you really want a race-derived sequential manual gearbox with nice efficient meshing gears