Golf VR6 *vs* 205 GTi *vs* Golf GTi 16v *vs* Clio 16v
#1
Golf VR6 *vs* 205 GTi *vs* Golf GTi 16v *vs* Clio 16v
As a TRACK CAR - stripped out, lowerd/stiffened. Car will be used on the 'Ring and on UK track days.
As title.
VR6 would be a Mk3 Golf.
205 would be a 1.9
Golf GTi 16v would be a Mk2 Golf.
Clio 16v would be a phase 1 or 2.
Looking to spend upto 2.5k on the car.
Anybody have experience of the above???
As title.
VR6 would be a Mk3 Golf.
205 would be a 1.9
Golf GTi 16v would be a Mk2 Golf.
Clio 16v would be a phase 1 or 2.
Looking to spend upto 2.5k on the car.
Anybody have experience of the above???
#3
Originally Posted by SPEN555
VR6 on track would be great. First bend turn in......followed by straight into the barriers due to heavy front end
Have you driven one?
#4
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I've had a VR6 and a MKII GTi 16v... never had either on a track, but here's my opinion on them...
The VR6 was superb, but I did have Koni adjustables and Eibach anti roll bars front and rear, which really make a massive difference compared to the standard stuff. I still got understeer but it was very controllable and predictable.
There was no comparison to the 16v GTi, that was crap compared. The torque from the VR6 was very very nice.
To be fair though, a sorted 205 will handle like a go-kart....
Jeff
The VR6 was superb, but I did have Koni adjustables and Eibach anti roll bars front and rear, which really make a massive difference compared to the standard stuff. I still got understeer but it was very controllable and predictable.
There was no comparison to the 16v GTi, that was crap compared. The torque from the VR6 was very very nice.
To be fair though, a sorted 205 will handle like a go-kart....
Jeff
#5
Have owned a 1.9 GTi and a 16v Golf. The Golf was a good solid car but needed a fair amout of revs to really move. The Peugeot was more fun, very light and chuckable and slightly quicker. Very suprisingly for a front wheel drive car you can also get the back to step out of line. Very entertaining on twisty roads!
#7
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When mines done (if) it will have the following spec.
205 Mi16, rebuilt alloy block engine, Emerald programmable ECU, GSXR throttle bodies, otherwise fairly std, except buckets, and other interior bits. Should be about 180bhp, and weigh about 900kg
Handy
That will have cost me £5k, but I did it **** about tit. You could get similar for £2.5-3k
205 Mi16, rebuilt alloy block engine, Emerald programmable ECU, GSXR throttle bodies, otherwise fairly std, except buckets, and other interior bits. Should be about 180bhp, and weigh about 900kg
Handy
That will have cost me £5k, but I did it **** about tit. You could get similar for £2.5-3k
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#8
TheBigMan ....... I have as much or more experience of a 205 on the ring as anyone on here I should think. Great car, good on the tighter sections but a total waste of time on the long uphill section. Plenty of time to get out and have a picnic etc.
The VR6 would be a far far better car ON THE RING .....the million or so locals who run them can't be wrong now can they???
Gary
Oh and newer more reliable technology too.Its a long drive from Calais to the ring and you dont wanna be breaking down now do you?
Oh and pps Karl's Mk2 non 16V golf laps the ring the quicker than my pug.
The VR6 would be a far far better car ON THE RING .....the million or so locals who run them can't be wrong now can they???
Gary
Oh and newer more reliable technology too.Its a long drive from Calais to the ring and you dont wanna be breaking down now do you?
Oh and pps Karl's Mk2 non 16V golf laps the ring the quicker than my pug.
Last edited by Gutmann pug; 15 March 2005 at 11:54 AM.
#9
Originally Posted by Gutmann pug
TheBigMan ....... I have as much or more experience of a 205 on the ring as anyone on here I should think. Great car, good on the tighter sections but a total waste of time on the long uphill section. Plenty of time to get out and have a picnic etc.
The VR6 would be a far far better car ON THE RING .....the million or so locals who run them can't be wrong now can they???
Gary
Oh and newer more reliable technology too.Its a long drive from Calais to the ring and you dont wanna be breaking down now do you?
The VR6 would be a far far better car ON THE RING .....the million or so locals who run them can't be wrong now can they???
Gary
Oh and newer more reliable technology too.Its a long drive from Calais to the ring and you dont wanna be breaking down now do you?
205 GTi is spot on. Your's kicks ***. Particularly when you bear in mind you are doing 911's etc.
VR6 may become an expensive project!!
205 is more realistic probably.
#10
Given the opportunity I would be driving a VR6 not the pug ......
For example you have a 500 mile trek from your house to get there. Thats 1000 miles over a weekend plus a couple of hundred track miles in-between. It can be pretty frustrating if things go wrong. I SHOULD KNOW
Your comment about the ring being in Germany also means that Ring racing etc will have spares in stock when they are required.
If you have the choice a VR6 should win every time
Gary
For example you have a 500 mile trek from your house to get there. Thats 1000 miles over a weekend plus a couple of hundred track miles in-between. It can be pretty frustrating if things go wrong. I SHOULD KNOW
Your comment about the ring being in Germany also means that Ring racing etc will have spares in stock when they are required.
If you have the choice a VR6 should win every time
Gary
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LMFAO - you can't even put a VR6 in with the others mentioned, heavy wallowy piece of crap. Never a good word spoken about a MK3 Golf.
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
#12
Originally Posted by ScoobyJawa
LMFAO - you can't even put a VR6 in with the others mentioned, heavy wallowy piece of crap. Never a good word spoken about a MK3 Golf.
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
#13
Originally Posted by ScoobyJawa
LMFAO - you can't even put a VR6 in with the others mentioned, heavy wallowy piece of crap. Never a good word spoken about a MK3 Golf.
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
Have you driven the ring in your pug?
#14
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I've had a std VR6 and a semi Group A spec 390 Gti, which was lightened and putting out circa 160 bhp- that would be my choice esp' over the 205, which is too twitchey- the 309's longer wheel base makes things happen just that bit slower.
IMHO
IMHO
#16
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Originally Posted by ScoobyJawa
LMFAO - you can't even put a VR6 in with the others mentioned, heavy wallowy piece of crap. Never a good word spoken about a MK3 Golf.
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
In standard form they are soft - but here's what my car had - Koni Top adjustables, Eibach springs, Eibach AntiRoll bars, Vibratechnics Engine Mounts (all 3), Vibratechnics Front Wishbone and Rear Axle Bushes.
- It went round corners like it was on rails ..... no understeer and a tiny little bit of trail braking oversteer. With the limited slip diff I was going to fit it would have been sublime .......
Coupled with 330mm Brakes and 225bhp and 240lb/ft torque - it was plenty fast enough (160mph on the flat at 7,000rpm) and with a big valve head it would have hit 250bhp - no joke!
- Then there is Supercharging - 270-340bhp is quite easy but may reduce the life of the engine somewhat .....
Turbo's - especially twin turbos - are good for up to 400bhp but you have real heat dispersion / longevity issues if used at somewhere like the Ring.
Obviously this is quite a bit of money to do in every case - but produces a great "Q" car"!
My 2p
Last edited by MadMark; 15 March 2005 at 12:33 PM.
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Looking at it more closely Bigman, you say you want to spend 2.5k on it, well here's a breakdown of my costs for the Golf.
Car 2000
Cage 800
Suspension & Strut Braces 1000
Seat, Harness & Steering Wheel 900
Oil Cooler 200
Total 4,9k Euros
About 3,2k Pounds
Car 2000
Cage 800
Suspension & Strut Braces 1000
Seat, Harness & Steering Wheel 900
Oil Cooler 200
Total 4,9k Euros
About 3,2k Pounds
#19
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Group N 205 GTi For Sale £1,995
Not mine but found on web - PM me for the website details if interested.
PEUGEOT 205 GTI
1.9 Group N
Built from a Gti 1.9 road car, full Safety Devices bolt in roll cage , diagonal and door bars , strut brace ,
Built to group N spec . Full 1.9 running gear, k+n cone filter etc, Recently fitted with new complete Bilstein tarmac suspension, 21/4 adj. Platform front struts with p.t.s. rose jointed top mounts , tarmac rear Bilsteins , discs all round , Aeroquip brake hoses , standard calipers , poly sump guard , steel tank guards , plumbed in extinguisher, navigators foot rest, spare wheel post etc etc. Pair of Cobra padded bucket seats, pair of Willans 4 point belts , RAC logbook,
Been used for tarmac rallies (inc. Tour of Mull) and various-road rallies, sprints & hillclimbs….. a great all-round car , great fun to drive , cheap and easy to run and maintain. Very straight and honest car. MSA logbook
£1995
PEUGEOT 205 GTI
1.9 Group N
Built from a Gti 1.9 road car, full Safety Devices bolt in roll cage , diagonal and door bars , strut brace ,
Built to group N spec . Full 1.9 running gear, k+n cone filter etc, Recently fitted with new complete Bilstein tarmac suspension, 21/4 adj. Platform front struts with p.t.s. rose jointed top mounts , tarmac rear Bilsteins , discs all round , Aeroquip brake hoses , standard calipers , poly sump guard , steel tank guards , plumbed in extinguisher, navigators foot rest, spare wheel post etc etc. Pair of Cobra padded bucket seats, pair of Willans 4 point belts , RAC logbook,
Been used for tarmac rallies (inc. Tour of Mull) and various-road rallies, sprints & hillclimbs….. a great all-round car , great fun to drive , cheap and easy to run and maintain. Very straight and honest car. MSA logbook
£1995
#20
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Originally Posted by ScoobyJawa
LMFAO - you can't even put a VR6 in with the others mentioned, heavy wallowy piece of crap. Never a good word spoken about a MK3 Golf.
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......
#23
Originally Posted by Dream Weaver
Good man, keep the French cause going
So you have a choice BigMan ....... UK or Ring you cant have it all?
Oh and obviously all talk of the ring is dependant on number of laps. You can get the odd exception. Karl is certainly ODD and an Exception
Gary
If my budget for a track car was bigger I would be driving a VR6 / GTi6 Rallye, something of that ilk
#24
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This would be a good buy, 202bhp as well:
Currently at £2850, but depends what it gets to I suppose:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ayphotohosting
Currently at £2850, but depends what it gets to I suppose:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ayphotohosting
#25
I'd say the golf for reliability and parts. The 205 can and is a good track car but will take money and effort to be really quick. If you just slap in a big mota then it may have trouble putting down the power
Although the Golf is reliable you need to make sure it’s in top condition, just like any other car, before it goes on the Ring. I saw a MK1 Golf flip on it’s roof at Wippermann due to a collapsed wish bone on the front
F
Although the Golf is reliable you need to make sure it’s in top condition, just like any other car, before it goes on the Ring. I saw a MK1 Golf flip on it’s roof at Wippermann due to a collapsed wish bone on the front
F
#26
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Originally Posted by Gutmann pug
Oh and obviously all talk of the ring is dependant on number of laps. You can get the odd exception. Karl is certainly ODD and an Exception
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Originally Posted by paulpalmer
My other halfs VR6 is on Konis and that alone makes the handling much better. The best package is a mark 2 golf with a VR6 I don't want to be funny but a VW is going to be more reliable.
Karl is very strange - but he is a mine of informaton on the Ring .....
#28
Originally Posted by Floyd
:
Although the Golf is reliable you need to make sure it’s in top condition, just like any other car, before it goes on the Ring. I saw a MK1 Golf flip on it’s roof at Wippermann due to a collapsed wish bone on the front
F
Although the Golf is reliable you need to make sure it’s in top condition, just like any other car, before it goes on the Ring. I saw a MK1 Golf flip on it’s roof at Wippermann due to a collapsed wish bone on the front
F