Golf VR6 *vs* 205 GTi *vs* Golf GTi 16v *vs* Clio 16v
 

As a TRACK CAR - stripped out, lowerd/stiffened. Car will be used on the 'Ring and on UK track days.

As title.


VR6 would be a Mk3 Golf.
205 would be a 1.9
Golf GTi 16v would be a Mk2 Golf.
Clio 16v would be a phase 1 or 2.

Looking to spend upto 2.5k on the car.


Anybody have experience of the above???

VR6 on track would be great. First bend turn in......followed by straight into the barriers due to heavy front end ;)

I did think they are quite heavy. 1180kg

Have you driven one?

I've had a VR6 and a MKII GTi 16v... never had either on a track, but here's my opinion on them...

The VR6 was superb, but I did have Koni adjustables and Eibach anti roll bars front and rear, which really make a massive difference compared to the standard stuff. I still got understeer but it was very controllable and predictable.

There was no comparison to the 16v GTi, that was crap compared. The torque from the VR6 was very very nice.

To be fair though, a sorted 205 will handle like a go-kart.... ;)

Jeff

Have owned a 1.9 GTi and a 16v Golf. The Golf was a good solid car but needed a fair amout of revs to really move. The Peugeot was more fun, very light and chuckable and slightly quicker. Very suprisingly for a front wheel drive car you can also get the back to step out of line. Very entertaining on twisty roads!

.....Pug currently winning by a country mile!!!

Suits me!!

When mines done (if) it will have the following spec.

205 Mi16, rebuilt alloy block engine, Emerald programmable ECU, GSXR throttle bodies, otherwise fairly std, except buckets, and other interior bits. Should be about 180bhp, and weigh about 900kg :)

Handy ;)

That will have cost me £5k, but I did it arse about tit. You could get similar for £2.5-3k

TheBigMan ....... I have as much or more experience of a 205 on the ring as anyone on here I should think. Great car, good on the tighter sections but a total waste of time on the long uphill section. Plenty of time to get out and have a picnic etc.

The VR6 would be a far far better car ON THE RING .....the million or so locals who run them can't be wrong now can they???

Gary

Oh and newer more reliable technology too.Its a long drive from Calais to the ring and you dont wanna be breaking down now do you?


Oh and pps Karl's Mk2 non 16V golf laps the ring the quicker than my pug.

Good point, but VW being German it makes sense they all have Golfs. I'd say if the 'Ring was in France they'd all be bombing around in 205's, 306's etc etc.

205 GTi is spot on. Your's kicks ass. Particularly when you bear in mind you are doing 911's etc.

VR6 may become an expensive project!!

205 is more realistic probably.

Given the opportunity I would be driving a VR6 not the pug ......

For example you have a 500 mile trek from your house to get there. Thats 1000 miles over a weekend plus a couple of hundred track miles in-between. It can be pretty frustrating if things go wrong. I SHOULD KNOW

Your comment about the ring being in Germany also means that Ring racing etc will have spares in stock when they are required.

If you have the choice a VR6 should win every time

Gary

LMFAO - you can't even put a VR6 in with the others mentioned, heavy wallowy piece of crap. Never a good word spoken about a MK3 Golf.

Clio is a fairly good car as is the MK2 Golf, but for a track tool it has to be the 205.......

It may come as a surprise but a Civic Type-R is actually HEAVIER than a VR6.....It may be wollowey but with sorted suspension it would not be so.

Have you driven the ring in your pug?

I've had a std VR6 and a semi Group A spec 390 Gti, which was lightened and putting out circa 160 bhp- that would be my choice esp' over the 205, which is too twitchey- the 309's longer wheel base makes things happen just that bit slower.

IMHO

If you're planning on doing a lot of laps and want reliability. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...2102040103.jpg

Actually I think you are misinformed ..... I'm an ex techincal adviser to Club VR6 and I did quite a bit of development work with the tuning companies in the mid 90's. :razz:

In standard form they are soft - but here's what my car had - Koni Top adjustables, Eibach springs, Eibach AntiRoll bars, Vibratechnics Engine Mounts (all 3), Vibratechnics Front Wishbone and Rear Axle Bushes.
- It went round corners like it was on rails ..... no understeer and a tiny little bit of trail braking oversteer. With the limited slip diff I was going to fit it would have been sublime .......

Coupled with 330mm Brakes and 225bhp and 240lb/ft torque - it was plenty fast enough (160mph on the flat at 7,000rpm) and with a big valve head it would have hit 250bhp - no joke! :D
- Then there is Supercharging - 270-340bhp is quite easy but may reduce the life of the engine somewhat .....
Turbo's - especially twin turbos - are good for up to 400bhp but you have real heat dispersion / longevity issues if used at somewhere like the Ring.

Obviously this is quite a bit of money to do in every case - but produces a great "Q" car"! :D

My 2p

My other halfs VR6 is on Konis and that alone makes the handling much better. The best package is a mark 2 golf with a VR6 :norty: I don't want to be funny but a VW is going to be more reliable.

Looking at it more closely Bigman, you say you want to spend 2.5k on it, well here's a breakdown of my costs for the Golf.

Car 2000
Cage 800
Suspension & Strut Braces 1000
Seat, Harness & Steering Wheel 900
Oil Cooler 200

Total 4,9k Euros
About 3,2k Pounds

Group N 205 GTi For Sale £1,995
 

Not mine but found on web - PM me for the website details if interested.

PEUGEOT 205 GTI

1.9 Group N


Built from a Gti 1.9 road car, full Safety Devices bolt in roll cage , diagonal and door bars , strut brace ,
Built to group N spec . Full 1.9 running gear, k+n cone filter etc, Recently fitted with new complete Bilstein tarmac suspension, 21/4 adj. Platform front struts with p.t.s. rose jointed top mounts , tarmac rear Bilsteins , discs all round , Aeroquip brake hoses , standard calipers , poly sump guard , steel tank guards , plumbed in extinguisher, navigators foot rest, spare wheel post etc etc. Pair of Cobra padded bucket seats, pair of Willans 4 point belts , RAC logbook,

Been used for tarmac rallies (inc. Tour of Mull) and various-road rallies, sprints & hillclimbs….. a great all-round car , great fun to drive , cheap and easy to run and maintain. Very straight and honest car. MSA logbook
£1995

Good man, keep the French cause going ;)

You can get a VTS for £2,500 nowadays. Bit more reliable engineering than the 205 with similar plusses.

They corner on rails ;)

If you have size 2 feet and a Burberry cap maybe ;)

It very much depends where the guy wants to use the car, thats an important factor. For most UK tracks the 205 is ideal. Short squirts heavy braking tight bends. The ring is a different animal and needs a different car IMHO. To muck about in a 205 or std Mk2 golf is ok, but if you want to be quicker than you need more grunt and the VR6 is ideal. Obviously suspension etc needs sorting. As said by Paul, the golf will be more reliable too.

So you have a choice BigMan ....... UK or Ring you cant have it all?

Oh and obviously all talk of the ring is dependant on number of laps. You can get the odd exception. Karl is certainly ODD and an Exception :D

Gary


If my budget for a track car was bigger I would be driving a VR6 / GTi6 Rallye, something of that ilk

This would be a good buy, 202bhp as well:

https://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/a2/64/09_1_b.JPG

Currently at £2850, but depends what it gets to I suppose:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...ayphotohosting

I'd say the golf for reliability and parts. The 205 can and is a good track car but will take money and effort to be really quick. If you just slap in a big mota then it may have trouble putting down the power :eek:

Although the Golf is reliable you need to make sure it’s in top condition, just like any other car, before it goes on the Ring. I saw a MK1 Golf flip on it’s roof at Wippermann due to a collapsed wish bone on the front :eek:

F

:lol1: :freak3:

I agree - In 3 years - 40,000 miles and about 10 track days - I never had anything other than a thermostat go wrong!

Karl is very strange - but he is a mine of informaton on the Ring ..... :razz: :D:D

Dont say that I had the wishbones off my pug the other day ....lalalalalala im not listening :D

CARS ARE WANK.

:confused: