Gutmann pug

I remember a while ago I was the only one singing its praises and saying it was a good stepping stone in the supercar market......what about now?

moses

what a car to beat the lambo been driven by a touring car champ

but was disappointed with the lag though, my own with 800 bhp and before with 700 bhp was quicker at spool up and less lag and just look at gaz's totb 3 handling car with even a bigger turbo was alot quicker and less lag, simons car and jason hulbert had a 400 bhp turbo still it was quicker spool up

mr400 spools up fully at 5500 did u know rcs evo 6 with 930 bhp with a turbo 4 times the size does it at that


owen could have done a better job me thinks, compression and turbo and manifold etc

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Ask Clarkson.

jason4656

agree with moses, my car has more hp and much better torque, and its virtually lag free however, its still a beast, looked good on the track, waiting for the haters, tehy will be along soon

moses

exactly jason, cheers bud

its a waste of money , 20k extra on a tune up, will buy u a 500 bhp evo with much better lag and 175 mph gearing

timing is very good as well, beat the galardos time and i think it brought it in the top 5 lap times

compshack

The FQ320 was said to be the best of the bunch, If that the best I think I'll stick with my STi that beats the socks of it

john banks

Have they not engineered a package with an oversized turbo for reliability?

It is fine saying you can put breathing mods on a 260 and remap it and get 380 BHP, but one has been engineered properly with a warranty, and the other has been tuned by someone called Gary (no offence if Gary is a tuner ) with far less safety margin. Because it works for him on the bypass and a few laps of his local track he thinks it is up to OEM reliability and warranty standards. No, he is just booting the bawsac out of a standard turbo and running it a little warmer than the over-specced version.

chrisp

To be fair I have been in my sister 1.6 Fiat Stilo and its quite nippy.

Added to say - Lag can be a bit of a nightmare with big turbos though, nice bit of kit the fq400

Gutmann pug

My point on the original post was there there really wasnt anything open to the scoob / EVO owner as a stepping stone without spending 60-70K. I think this car fills the gap. Im talking about new cars and not track day specials either.

Before the place goes mad im talking new car, and standard.

compshack

PMSL at chrisp

jason4656

agree with you john to some extent, ie the need for forged internalls to have a reliable 400bhp car (guessing) as there hasnt been a failed evo 8 yet running 400 bhp as far as i know, even though its new ground, mitsi had to cover themsevles on that, however as for turbo reliability, I beleive it was possible to have a much better spooling turbo producing the same power, 355lbft is nothing spectacular really considering whats been achieved on smaller turbos, perhaps they wouldnt get something quite as small as the standard turbo, however I reckon they could have reliably reduced it 1000rpm, I dont think its as late as 5500rpm is it? thats terrible really, should give lag a new name, super lag!

moses

john with a turbo at that size im sure they could have made it spool up by 3500 revs , my own car with the older turbo gt3240 was fully spooled by 3800 revs with minimum lag, since then my turbo has been changed twice to a bigger one

and yes gaz is a tuner, u know him he kicked yours and andy fs *** at tob 2, and totb 3 he did it to andy


car is reliable and been on japanese performance the current one the 550 bhp one

well said jason, thats what i meant alot more powerful cars with minimum lag and more torque

john banks

355 lbft keeps the cylinder pressures down, things will last longer, with a bigger turbo it will be running nice and cool.

I can run a standard Subaru 2.0 or 2.5 at 400-450 BHP, and I have done, and am doing, but to do it reliably you'd want the built motor and the oversized turbo. If my engine breaks, I'll just put another one in, I treat it as a hazard of going fast, I expect you do as well if you have a modified car. A buyer of a standard, warrantied car is a different kettle of fish.

I doubt it is really 5500 RPM as well, more like 4000-4500 RPM depending on gear from what I heard elsewhere.

moses

john mate, its been tested in a few mags and evo guys its 5500 revs not cool really

and some mags said 3.5 and some even 3.8 0 to 60, good for a car thats really heavy still 1450 kg i think

depending on the driver of course

john banks

Moses, how many miles has your car done on the road in these wondrous specs? You are on a completely different planet what you're trying to do. I picked the name Gary because Clarkson refers to Gary modifying a car in the back garden in his videos

You just can't think of the tuning you and I do as OEM warrantied stuff!

If you can take a 400, unlock the MoTeC and map it reliably to 500 BHP would it be considered better value then?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Powersliding with one finger?

Isn't it about time these "supercar beaters" had proper REAL mans steering?

I'm not mitsi bashing, just bashing that and almost everything else in the same category! - No wonder everyone has to go to the gym to build up their arms

If I wanted to powerslide with 1 finger I'd get a steering wheel for my PS2

That lag is not a good thing, I poo poo cars where people say spool up very fast ( I do not tolerate any form of lag ). So going on that it must be really bad, perhaps they kept boost down at lower rpms for emissions and noise purposes? Or possibly even to reduce shock on the drivetrain?

moses

its a different gary then , coz gaz has a massive garage


its not the point of 500 bhp mate, overall package

it doesnt even have adjustable suspension, just uprated springs bilstein etc and its the spool up that got me, i luv 400 bhp but with that spool up , forget it

mines a road legal drag car, still with a turbo 3 times the size, spools up alot quicker

i even compared it to rc 930 bhp , mr400 was the same spool up wasnt it

, the turbo in it aint that big, its smaller than a gt3037s i believe, their good turbos and give u good spool up

47k , rather get a evo 260 and spend the 27k extra on tuning mods and good suspension and insurance




BY THE WAY GOOD TIME OF 1.24 on a damp track not bad that way

john banks

There are huge constraints that have to be worked around to produce a car like the 400. Very brave move IMHO. Reliable and 550 BHP do not go together with a 2.0 engine for a road car. Wake up and smell the coffee. Tuner's cars rebuilt goodness knows how many times, run on fancy fuel, with more monitoring devices than imaginable cannot be compared with an OEM warrantied car that can be driven every day for 100000 miles by Gary who is not a tuner, who will expect to have routine servicing only in this time, or the odd thing go wrong. Whilst a different market, this is what you expect out of a quick Porker. Buyers with £47000 will expect the same and rightly so that they would from a normally aspirated BMW or Porsche in terms of reliability.

moses

in that case maybe your right, but it still doesnt justify the spool up john, even u know that, that has nothing to do with warranty, can still make 400 bhp with a better spool up, dont u think

chrisp

yes brilliant time

Gutmann pug

That was my point moses. There isnt anything as standard ,from new in that place on the market.

john banks

Moses, you can't compare your car that hardly ever turns a wheel, or RC's that blows up in short order. Nor can you compare people that completely decat, run octane booster, lots of monitoring and don't have to worry about emissions or noise. You have to drop it back several clicks and then some to release a car like this. I wouldn't have one, but huge respect to Mitsu UK for doing it!

No Moses, I very much doubt the spool up would be wildly better for someone else working to the same constraints.

The things Andy F gets away with in terms of tuning up his car are things I have to massively dilute to make mine a 15-20000 miles a year car. Yes I'm 100 BHP behind and in this spec I expect long times between rebuilds, yes I run on pump fuel, yes I can ignore the gauges. Even then, OEM reliability would need to be more stringent again. Way more stringent. I am spooling up in present supposedly reliable config far later than what I did before on the edge using a smaller turbo.

Neil Smalley

I was more interested to see it understeer. IMHO the new stig can't seem to get the most out of these AWD Rally reps. There's no way a properly driven Evo should be able to understeer to the extent this one did. It also goes some way to explain why the WR1 time was so slow.

In anycase, who drives a 30mph in top? Thats nothing to do with turbo lag, just gearing and poor driving.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I do

Although not in a Scoob or misti

NotoriousREV

I haven't changed my mind about it - I still can't afford it

imi

That is a very good point. Its a sports car, ones expected to work the gearbox. Its not supposed to be a John Prescott Cruiser........

jason4656

i personally agree with moses, 5.5k rpm is not a good spool, there is no way you can say its down to reliability issues, like I said before, we havent seen a standard e8 engine go pop as yet, who knows, maybe mine will be the first, so far its done 13k miles in 8 months virtually lagless. I am not saying it could have been the same, but, if I added forged internals, I would "expect" to have a daily driver, reliable with over 400/400 and alot less lag. I am not comparing, im just saying it could have been better, like has been said, a gt30 would spool alot better and has been proven, so I beleive this is a hybrid gt25? why does it spool so late?

john banks

If it really is 5500 RPM it is ridiculous, is it REALLY this late? Anyone saying this that has personally driven one? A nice GT30R would be a sensible size for what they are trying to achieve, with lots to spare, even on a 2.0 Subaru with several miles of exhaust manifold it would be lighting up before 5500 RPM.

Edit - I note PEAK torque is at 5500 RPM. That is a very different matter from it not coming alive until that RPM LOL.

I had a setup that made about 380 lbft at 3000 RPM, but on one plot it happened to peak at 395 lbft at about 5000 RPM. Means nothing unless you know the shape of the plot.

moses

john haha mine hasnt been used coz i changed my spec 4 times within a yr

and still thats not the point, u are ignoring the fact, i was giving u an example of the rc evo with a turbo 4 times the size but it spools up the same as the mr400, when the mr400 turbo is a smaller turbo than the gt3037s and that is the turbo used in most modified evos in the uk and the world and their fully spooled before 3800 revs

yes its do to with the engine builders, and a few of my mates have had owen turbo kits and manifolds, i wont go into detail, but im an evo guy, changed alot of stuff in my car , i know whats what in an evo and how it works and how different tuners have different specs and different results, alot of my mates, u know a few, all have 400 bhp to 600 bhp evos and none of their cars have a bad spool up as this mr400 with turbos that are alot bigger, gt3037s . gt3040, gt3540, gt3542 and even the slightly bigger than gt3037s the gt3240 by hks, when i had my gt3240 was fully spooled before 3800 revs , yes thanks to my stroker too of course, but their are many with only 2 litres with similiar results with spool up.

and yes rc didnt blow up their engine, u know that dont u, they rev it to 9500 revs dont they and overreved it and popped out a valve.

they didnt blow it up.

and thats no excuse for a sh1tty spool up in the mr400, its down to the tuner and how the engine has been done.

ive seen low compression engines and even their spool ups are better than the mr400.


jason would tell u, theirs richw, and alot of other guys who hardly spent anything on their engines with standard internals on their evo 6's not evo 8's etc

have over 370 ft torque and over 400 bhp with spool up thats alot better. they have had it for ages and no reliability probs.


like i said i was very impressed of course against the lambo and touring car champ driving it, it was awesome, , it beat it and lambo was actually slowing the evo down, and the lambo was even given a head start.

plus also its in the top 5 aint it, half a second slower than the swedish koenissig, and the evo done it on a damp track as well, which was not bad.

47k they should have at least given it some nice adjustable suspension as well not just uprated springs, still a bargain though compared to the supercars and porsche crap.

but rather spend 27k on tuning a car to my spec

so boys if u want an evo buy a secondhand evo 8 or a 260 and strip the bodykit and add some bling , race style and a massive engine

john banks

Sorry Moses, but if you pop a valve from over-revving it (it must be difficult to drive with that power and power band), the end result is the same, you have to pull the engine. It isn't a reliable package, but a racer. As is your spec.

Given the choice, no Moses, I wouldn't give you £27k to tune an Evo of mine if I bought one Nothing personal Resale value? Guarantees? If you've had to change your spec (or wanted to before driving it) four times in a year then you can't plan a modification project for toffee and should forget it Your car is another paper/bench racer, go on prove me wrong, I'd love to see it running, but the fact is you haven't put tens of thousands of miles on a heavily tuned Evo that can compete with the 400 for warranty and reliability, so your criticisms of its tuning are dubious, moreso if you haven't driven it, and still no one has stated clearly how exactly it spools up. Quoting the peak torque RPM point tells us nothing. I've already done the oversold, overtalked fantasmo forged spec engine as have many of the MLR members. A lot subsequently sell their cars because of little issues, many don't ever work as promised, some inexplicably blow up etc. I now choose a factory standard engine where I can and don't regret it. You are presently living in the twilight of the dream of what your car will be like, the bench dyno results, the paper promises. All you have done is spent a lot of money and had the hassle, but none of the enjoyment. When it is rattly, unreliable, breaking diffs and driveshafts as well as consuming oil, and drinking fuel like nothing else because of the wild and unrefined cams, or never gets quite right in dozens of inexplicable ways, I can say I told you so and that racers are never reliable as nice road cars.

One or two, or even ten or twenty buddies' cars off a BBS that "haven't had any problems m8" and producing a near as factory car with a proper warranty are two different things altogether.