J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I and many others have got caught up in the BS surrounding vehicle performance, how fast do you need to go, I think a lot of us miss the point and buy/mod cars that are way more than we need, sure its great pub talk but does anybody need to have 500/600 bhp to enjoy driving ?

Power outputs are getting higher and higher, is there any need or do the cars need to concentrate more on fun than power and performance figures ?

Discuss, or are there more Max Power readers on here than I imagined....

Brendan Hughes

The most motoring fun I ever had was in my crappy Dutton Phaeton which was outdragged by a 1.6 Sierra.

Borrowed a mate's MR2 Mk2, did 85 in a 40, felt anodyne.

Still hanker after a Caterham every now and then.

LG John

I don't care how much power its got as long as it re-arranges my organs under acceleration then I'm happy

Dracoro

'only' 190bhp gives me plenty of fun and faster than most cars on the road, 0-100 in 10/11 secs Dirt cheap to run and insure too. Plenty of organ re-arranging, especially if you are a passenger lol

LG John

What the hell do you drive And how much £££?

Dracoro

Westfield. Handles pretty well too Cost me £10k with less than 3000 miles on the clock. Top condition too.

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

I go along with the fun over power point-of-view and believe that once you get past about a certain bhp point cars actually become less fun to drive. I started off with an RX-7 that was about as quick as could sensibly be used on the road and set about trying to double the output. All that I managed to do was come up with a car that was (when it wasn't stuck in the garage waiting for bits) too quick to have any fun on the road.
For road use low power, low grip level and high entertainment value are what is important. I dare say the same applies to track use, but I'm still at the point where quicker is better for that environment.

papascooby

Drac - which westie/engine?

New M5 a case in point.

Over 500BHP and an 'economy/warm up' mode that only has 400BHP

It'll comfortably take 5 up @ over 200mph (allegedly).

Personally I think that's just silly. I imagine the launch/traction control stops you using a lot of the power a lot of the time.

400BHP would've done me

Mind you, how much do 5/6 year old M5's go for with av. miles? Might be a nice second hand motor in 2010.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm v10

Simon S3

This is a good thread!

Mate has a SL55 thingy (knew him at school, top bloke!) and although it`s a top car I can`t stop thinking of the price and how he could`ve saved a packet and had as much fun.

Anyway, one of the most fun cars I`ve owned was one of the least powerful I`ve had in the past 5 years. It was a Puma 1.7 and looking back it really was a good steer.

john banks

M5's 0-200 kph time is still about 15 seconds. So it might have top speed (because of power), but the acceleration isn't ludicrous (because of weight).

I can enjoy driving a 200 BHP car In The Twisties(TM), but where there is a bit of space the torque and power of my daily driver with 440 BHP is hilarious and addictive, and in the dry at least, 2nd gear coming out of a favourite roundabout with a yump at the exit makes my day In a standard Scooby you hardly notice the same road feature I haven't found anything I'd want to swap it for for the amount I want to spend on a car, or even for rather more than I want to spend. My car is part of my protection against insanity from my job

My wife's Puma 1.7 is also fun through roundabouts but struggles to get airborne in quite the same way

Dracoro

papascooby - SeiW with VX 2.0 16v redtop. SBD exhaust and all the good suspension bits. good thing about the engine is that it responds well to tuning. coupla grand takes me to 220bhp or so. Many people run around 260. However, it's plenty fast enough at 190bhp and rather reliable.

And here's the plus thing that a LOT of people miss with this power race - I do a mod to my 600kg car to add, say, 25bhp. To get the same performance gain on a 1200kg car, you'd need to mod to the tune of at least 50bhp for the same performance gain. An 1800kg would require 75bhp for the same gain. Also, losing weight is a LOT cheaper than gaining power Just do away with trim and rear seats etc. lol

john banks

Quite right, but when you want a four seater that can carry luggage, with a hard top, that is surefooted in the rain, you might want something heavier Would love a Caterfield, Ultima etc, but they are just not daily propositions for me.

LG John

I suppose the point of this thread is best made with my little 'tussle' last night.

I pulled up to the Gogar roundabout and an SLK AMG V8 Komp pulled up fast behind me and moved into the, 'I'm going to rip you lane' It was absolutely pishing with rain so when the lights changed I played my, 'no your not card' and got a nice start in the pug and kept him at bay. Once onto the straight the 406 kept him very true until about 80-odd where he could really unleash the power without fear of traction issues. Such a massive power advantage being p!ssed away on a wet road was rather fun though

Dracoro

john banks - Hmmm, yes lol . However, I hardly ever have the need for four seats & luggage. And if/when I do, I have my omega sitting in the drive for that sort of thing

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

My point is, and I sound a it like a grandad, theres only so fast you can go on the public road without going silly, dont get me wrong I enjoy spirited driving but half of the fun is engine response, handling, nice steering and good brakes, a lot of the new big Mercs are just exercises in pointless horsepower, I dont care if an SL65 has 600+ horsepower, you would have to be going licence losing speeds/banged up to even feel it, A westie with 100 bhp is more fun (assumption), I have had more fun in lower powered and inept cars than superbly capable powerful ones, Frog Eye sprite, Mini 1100 clubman, Mk1 Golf GTI, Magnum 2300 (now thats a car), my more powerfull cars have been a bit pointless, even though they were by SN standards not that powerfull, i.e. Volvo T5 and Fiat Coupe Turbo, best of all was a 120 BHP MK2 Golf GTI 8 valve on coilovers !

You need a bit of performance and sparkle but a 600 horsepower Merc is like a 600 Watts per channel Matsui Stereo.

john banks

I need cases of equipment all the time which 3/4 fill a Scooby boot though

Kenny, with a Scooby appropriately modified you have not only the traction but the power too, but they are just too damn obvious, that is why a 400 BHP L-reg Legacy Turbo estate really appeals to have a play in

john banks

Move to somewhere rural

LG John

When it rumbled up next to me (and I do mean rumbled - WHAT a sound ) I did curse my luck that I didn't have the scooby. Even with 'just' the standard 215bhp I'd have spanked it in the conditions.

I'm sure a very light high p/w/r car would be bags of fun but there is also a certain appeal in a car that hits and smashes through 100mph like it wasn't there. Granted its illegal but a quick 15s blat from o-130mph coming off a dualler r/a sounds like fun to me and your time exposed to excessive speeding is short

Midmotorsteve

i think accceleration is a big fun factor, but then bends are damn good too,.. i just had my mr2 converted from a 160bhp n/a to a 270bhp turbo, acceleration now makes me laugh, but.... and its a big but, i don't think it drives as well, it 'felt' fast as a n/a i could have it doing 6500rpm mid bend feathering the throttle and it was sublime, but now its got lots of power with crude delivery i can't put it into bends with as much confidence. In a straight it also 'feels' slower when doing 60 + its too easy, before it was frantic revs and howl of engine, now its just spoolup and glance at speedo to see i'm doing a stupid speed.. speed i have now realised definately isn't every thing, my next car will be a light weight n/a that probably won't throw me in my seat but i think i'd get a better driving experience.

john banks

NA does have a control on part throttle that I like, this morning I was feathering the throttle around a very wet corner and the torque was nothing like linear to pedal position, even though the turbo was well in the zone, the actuator is fairly weak, and the wastegate duty cycle doesn't chase a target until nearly full throttle. I think if I tried to throttle steer it mid bend in the wet I would just lose it as there is just too much torque - it would just pendulum and get rather out of hand. I can play with it on the exit of a bend where you are winding lock off, and Scoobies do seem to work best that way.

Brendan Hughes

This is EXACTLY how I felt going from boggo 1.6 205GTi to Impreza. I don't think my next fun car will be a turbo.

brickboy

My first car was a 1.3 pushrod Escort with 60bhp. I used to be able to do Macclesfield to Hull (to visit parents) in 1 hour 45 minutes.

With my mildly tuned Volvo T4 (around 240bhp), the fastest I ever did the same journey was ..... 1 hour 40 minutes.

Sure, the Volvo could cruise happily at 125mph, but what's the point of exceeding a ton on motorways when you can lose your license in the blink of an eye?

Point-to-point, big power does NOT cut your journey time significantly ... especially with cameras all over the shop.

But as said before, it IS fun

IbizaFR

I enjoy the overtaking power of my car but have kind of "grown out of" the pushing it around corners on country roads. See quite a lot of families live in houses along these roads, not villages, just single houses and I would hate to come round a corner at 90 and find a little girl collecting her ball off the road. Just a thought.

RB5_245

I Have to say I realised that power isn't everything ages ago, but seem to have forgotten over time as certain things were added to my car.

I used to be happy with the scoob, but wanted that bit more. Recently I had a shot of a mates Audi S3, which I found to be completely gutless. On top of that I originally bought the scoob because the engine was responsive compared to my old mr2 turbo.

It seems to be like Heroin. I'm addicted to the power, know it's not good for me but there's nothing I can do about it, I just want more and it costs a fortune

Scoobynet Anonymous anyone

Dave

trails

iTrader: (41)

love my scoob but must be honest and say I have had more fun in my old company Focus's (Focui ?), 1800 Zetec engine under powered but with fantastic brakes and that chassis the feedback to the driver is awesome. You can also drive the thing on (and over) the edge on the road without going fatality fast...

brybusa

Does no one think that the first few years of driving (or riding) are THE most exciting time of your motoring life?...regardless of what power it made.!

The ability to travel and expierence new places and things.

Personally, i think I had more more fun on my MTX50 than on the 'busa now...

And the thrill of passing my test ,getting my Alfasud and driving everywhere in it was far more exciting than picking up my scoob

Age matures us all I guess, and you realise BHP aint the be all and end all..Nice to KNOW you have it...

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I started riding push bikes again, forgot how much fun that is !

brybusa

as im from the BMX generation, I understand, i still have to ride accross peoples gardens on my mountain bike...im 36 now..wish I could grow up..maybe one day..

trails

iTrader: (41)

Go on then give me an excuse to post some more pics...I'm off that generation too and I'm still riding. Here's me and some of my friends...








My bike is the most fun you can have on ANY number of wheels!!

RB5_245

I think the rose tinted glasses may be out here, as much fun as my first car was, a 1.4 citroen ax, it's never as much fun as the scoob, then again I got that when I was 20, so I suppose I didn't have all that many years to forget how annoying it was not being able to overtake.

Dave