jonc

OK, not looking to start a forum war or anything, but due to imminent arrival of twins, I need to get a car with slightly more room than a Clio172, but without loosing the fun of driving. I have narrowed to two possibilities, as mentioned, but at a quandry as which to go for. I know they are of similar size and have similar amount of passenger and boot space. I have thought about going to the cars forum, but I would like an unbiased opinion. I would appreciate peoples opinions of the said cars regarding running costs, performance, practicallity, build quality and general ownership experiences. Many thanks.

Bumpster

The ST170 handles better than the Leon Cupra but the Cupra is faster I believe.

My mate traded up from an ST170 to a Leon Cupra R and think's it's great.

jonc

Yeah I heard that the handling of the ST170 was pretty good, comparable if not better than the Clio172, but also heard their engines were gutless unless rev'ed hard. Which moves me to the Cupra (not Cupra R), which as has a grunty engine (tunable to around 220-230bhp I heard) but not sure of the handling. I know second hand price wise they are similar as is the insurance, but what are the dealerships like?

[Edited by jonc - 11/17/2003 5:20:41 PM]

Cabinet Enforcer

Can't comment on seat dealers, though if there owt like VW dealers then not good

With ford dealers its a lottery, good ones are hard to find but do exist, most are crap and only pay lipservice to customer care, on the plus side bits are cheap and easy to get, and the warranty work doesn't need to be done by the dealer you bought the car off.

druddle

I am going from a Clio 172 "bag of spanners" edition to a Leon Cupra R. Thoroughly impressed with the Seat dealers, build quality and performance on paper looks good.

For some (slightly biased) advice look on www.seatcupra.net

Dave

fatherpierre

My girlfriend has a Cupra R and I find it crap. Just my opinion but I find it like driving a poor kept golf GTI MK2.

I've had a go in a ST170 and they're nothing special except for that chasis. They handle so well. The engine has nothing to offer, though.

Out of the 2 I'd go Ford, but if you have time I'd research further as both fall short of anything exciting.

If it's a family thing why not go for a year old Mond 220

[Edited by fatherpierre - 11/17/2003 11:37:15 PM]

Dul

To be honest I’ve never driven a Leon so according to what I’ve heard, it’s easily tunable and despite it could be quite fast it does not procure any real sporty feeling.

The handling of the ST170 is superb, however the engine is very disappointed. Therefore, the performances are really common.

Well, if you need a bit more room than a Clio, you’re fine with a 3doors car and you like sporty sensations, what about a CTR?

jonc

Thanks for your replies, I would like a ST220, but with a budget of £12k max, they are unfortunately out of my price range for a decent one. Besides my wife thinks they are too big, especially as parking space is a premium in our area. CTR's are excellent cars, why don't Honda made a 5 door version!! I know that the Leon's have very tuneable engines, but having previously owned a Fiat Coupe 20vt, I've found that though the Fiat was massively fast in a straight line, I've enjoyed the handling and chuckability of the Clio172 and is the more rewarding drive even though it has a less powerful engine.

Does anyone know of the tuneability of ST170's engine?

ScoobyJawa

Leon - no question, better build, more potential.

The ST170 is an overpriced slow piece of garbage

Came up against a couple of young lads driving one like a bit of a nobber in my 1.9 205. Ran rings around them in straight line and handling much to their annoyance!

fatherpierre

Leon better built than a Focus?

Modern Fords are up there with BMW in build quality(almost).

Seats are well built too , but not quite there IMO.

Dave T-S

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of bollox that is spouted on this BBS, normally by people that have a strong opinion on something they haven't even driven

Right, got that off my chest.....

Firstly, I am a fan of the Focus. However, I test drove a Focus ST170 without ESP. It was totally gutless in a straight line and fell over going round corners. The key thing here is that you HAVE to buy one with ESP - they just don't handle without it. ESP was always standard fit on the 2.0 Zetec, but in a masterpiece of sleight of hand a couple of years ago Ford very nicely reduced the price of the Focus after moans about their cars being too expensive, but in the process decontented loads of things that then became expensive options, one of which was ESP at about £750 IIRC. So, it then makes the ST170 an overpriced car again

I ended up buying a Leon Cupra instead in March 03, which did not have any of the shortcomings of the ST170. Then PX'd that for a Cupra R in June, and I have to say this is a very impressive car (I do not recognise any of the criticisms of the Leon above) and has been totally fault free. The dealer (Marshalls in Cambridge) has been excellent.

Just sold the R for a new Golf R32, but that's another story

jonc

I've been reading posts on the Seat and Ford Focus forums and it seems that faults and complaints are more numerous from focus owners than Seat onwners. With that in mind I'm starting to look at Leons in a more favourable light.

Didn't Seat produce a 4x4 verion of the Leon? and does anyone know where I can get hold of these?

Dave T-S

There's a 4wd 2.8 version of the Leon (Cupra 4) - Europe, and LHD, only



[Edited by Dave T-S - 11/19/2003 2:36:25 PM]

Cupramax

And 1.8T + TDi versions but they're all LHD only....

RobDon

At a recent trackday an ST170 was no competition for my Leon Cupra, on the straights or round corners! Leon Cupra is a fine car - add the usual chip, induction and exhaust and you're looking at an easy 220BHP.

I've nothing against any make of car - but between these two the Cupra wins easily.

FranckF1

Hello

had an ST170 for 3 months only, just before I bought my Impreza. Very nice car, very nice handling but the Cupra I just tested 2 months ago was far better except it was not as good in matter of suspensions...

ADL-ATR

There are probably more documented problems with the fords as they simply sell more cars than seat.