nicebloke36

Mate o mine has 2 to 3 k max to spend, he aint particualrly well off an its took him some time to save, he has always wanted a beemer and me and him have been looking in autotrader at the used market. most are around 'J' to 'L' ish, 1800 to 3000 mark, what we want is some decent tips as to what to look for .... an i mean good solid advice please, i dont want him to get stung
help needed please
paul[sti8]

fatherpierre

He can get a mint E30 325i for that sort of money. It's got to be a straight 6 for that sort of age.

Does he want an E36 or E30?

nicebloke36

i think his insurance might make him have to stick to the 2 litres... hes after the 3 series and im after some dos and donts, a tyre kickers list of what to look for re: bangers and wear and tear sort of thing
cheers paul

fatherpierre

The 2 litres are straight 6 engines! On the E30s they're less economical than the 2.5s.

E30s rust around the arches quite badly but are well made cars. As with any old car a FSH is a bonus. And options were expensive on old BMWs, so a fully loaded one is the one to go for.

I've had an E30 320i and a 325i, and an E36 325i. Avoid the E30 320i as they're very thirtsy and slow past 60, but smooth.

E36 325i is a fairly decent motor that'll take big miles if looked after. But the E30 325i was my fave. Excellent mid-range and every bit as fast as the E36 despite its 20bhp lower output.

I never had any probs other than consumables going.

PaulT00

If buying anything with the "small six" engine (e.g. E30 325i) be very aware that those engines have a design flaw - the cylinder head is prone to cracking at high mileages.

E30s seem to go through an "expensive" period at about 90-100K where lots of components seem to be reaching the end of their design life.

The brakes on a 325 are marginal for the performance; hard driving will eat pads and the discs can wear as well. Also, don't try to outbrake a "real" performance BMW like an E30 M3 - you will lose.

Cambelts *must* be changed at the recommended intervals.

Radiators are marginal for the heat output of the engine and can clog and cause overheating, or split and leak. Any signs of overheating in traffic, walk away or risk heat-enhanced chances of cylinder head cracking.

Suspension can sag at highish mileages and on the M-tech cars (like the 325 sport) it's quite expensive to put right.

And finally, BMWs like to be kept "up together" - if you let a servicing issue slide, they tend to get a bit daggy quite rapidly where things knock-on to other things.

(and yes, in case you're wondering, I speak from 7 years experience of a very nice, but at times heartbreakingly expensive, mark 1 E30 325 sport)

fatherpierre

True.

Your post has reminded me of my fuel pump, water pump and radiator replacement on my E30 320i @ 92k.

I bought my 325i @ 72k miles and sold it @ 133k miles with a mere back box relacement.

Cam belt is a must as said earlier, and don't ignore the servicing lights.

nicebloke36

So wot your saying is :
1) get an e36 [is this 91 onwards?]
2) go for the 325 ?
3) as much service history as possible [obvious that one though]
4) check for cambelt change ? [what miles is this at ?]
5) rusty arches
6) sagging springs
7) radiators, fuel pumps ets
thanks fella's, but one last [big] question
heres me an me mate looking around the beemer, how do i tell if its top end is cracking, fuel pump is going suspension is shot you know all the stuff i need to look out for, like i said earlier, consider me a muppet of the bmw world.
I need some pointers that are going to help me physically recognise what to look for when im on the forecourt looking at a particular car.
thanks in advance, i know youll come up with the goods
paul

ajm

1) 1990 onwards
2) 325 is a solid performer and will be within budget, but look out for thrashed/v. high mileage
3) yes - same for everything!
4) no belts on E36 6 cylinders, all chains
5) rusty arches not a particular problem on E36
6) Sagging springs not a particular problem - more likely the shocks will be gone on high mileage
7) Look out for pre '95 6 cylinder water pumps... the earlier plastic impeller pumps were known to fail.

Edited to answer last question...

There is no definate way to "just know" faults - it takes a trained eye. The key tips are the same for all cars:-

- Check the oil, look for signs of emulsification, leaks etc
- Bounce the suspension, look for residual bouncing i.e. lack of damping
- check the service history, see if the last service approximately lines up with the amount of green service lights on (service lights are **** easy to reset)
- check body work thoroughly, signs of respray under bonnet etc
- check tool kit and general condition of fittings
- check tires, look for signs of uneven wear, could be alignment or even chassis problems
- test drive, listen for clunks from the rear - could be rear shock mounts which are known to fail but cheap to replace - creaking metallic noises could be rear subframe which = welding and $$
- check water pump fitted, metal impellor is desired but an easy retrofit - post 95 fitted with metal anyway


theres a few for starters

[Edited by ajm - 10/18/2003 12:06:50 AM]

PaulT00

If anyone is considering buying an older BMW, I'd really suggest having it looked over professionally by an independent specialist before handing over the spondulicks. If you get a good one it'll be a joy to own (apart from the servicing bills which can be a bit painful!) but if you get a bad one it may still be a great car - but it might end up bleeding you dry...

Best bet is probably to ask around on one of the BMW boards for recommendations for local independents, and then speak to them about looking a car over. Also, if you find someone local who knows and services Beemers, they might know good places to find good'uns, or even recognise specific cars.

Although your profile doesn't say where you live, if you need a recommendation in the Bristol area I would suggest the guys who used to service my 325 - Clayton Cars in Bedminster.

Good luck!

ajm

PaulT00, another bimmerphile in the the Bristol area then?

I have heard good things about Clayton cars, although I would be willing to give a once over for anyone in the Bristol area if they wanted. I actually have a good realtionship with Wellsway BMW - if you are pissed off with Dick Muppets then I can set you up with a helpful contact at Wellsway

PaulT00

Yeah... definitely a BMW fan, although my other half has threatened me with D.I.V.O.R.C.E. if I ever buy another one. My 325 seemed to have a bad attitude, but it was such a great car, a 1987 325 sport in Lachs Silver (with the black rubber bootlid lip spoiler rather than the double-layered one they did from 89 onwards). But it definitely did its best to bleed me dry and I was too daft to get shot of it.

Its misdemeanours culminated in a cracked cylinder head at about 140K, by which time everything else which could go had gone. So I gulped loudly, and had a new engine put in it.

And then 20K later I sold it and bought a MY00 Scoob, which I still have.

...from which you can probably tell that sanity has never been a strong point with me.

I only ever used Dick Lovetts for servicing in the first year of ownership, to maintain the warranty cover. But every time it went in with problem A, it seemed to come out with problem A fixed and problem B caused. Once the warranty was out, I went to Claytons for all my servicing for the next 6 years. God only knows what it would have cost me at main dealer rates! The best one I had from Lovetts was when the starter motor failed, the BMW Emergency Service people would only take it to the nearest main dealer, and they said they couldn't even think of fitting me in for 3 weeks... bunch of idiots.

ajm

yeah sounds about right... they are bad news up there.... I only go up there for parts, mainly cos it doesnt mean bumping into any of the service dept.... personality clash is the understatement!

So... are you biding your time before coming back to the BMW fold?

PaulT00

TBH, I'm not sure that I will ever own another BMW. Aside from anything else, I have discovered that I really like scoobs - I recently considered upgrading to a STi8 but at the moment I don't do enough mileage to justify spending that much money on a new car just to leave it parked at home most of the time.

Then there's the aforementioned anti-BMW stance of the other half. Every time I mention "that sort of car" there's a frosty silence. This probably has to do with the fact that the first one I had (a 323i E21) snapped its cambelt (850 quid to repair the top end - 9 valves bent) and then got written off (by being smashed while parked), and then the second one (the 325 Sport) ate about 2 grand a year in maintenance, then threw a cracked cylinder head and ate 4.5K to put it right.

By comparison, the scoob hasn't cost me much to run at all (apart from an extraordinary addiction to large quantities of Optimax) - so from a sanity point of view it's a bit better.

I will freely admit that I would love to own an E46 M3 with all the toys, but I don't think I'll be going there for a long while, if ever. Sigh.

nicebloke36

PAULT just read your thread, im a scoob man myself, my Sti8 is my second, its getting prodrived on tuesday and the prodrive suspension put on too, i had a bmw 328i on a N and the engine blew and cooked !!! cost me 3K to put right with a reconditioned one, now i began this thread cos one of the lads i work with wants a used 3 series, he only has 3k max to spend, hes looking for sommit on a j ish plate, after reading your thread im wondering..... is it the right car to get, there is no way he will be able to afford maintainance bills like you had ??
any advice ?
paul

PaulT00

Hm. Well there are three basic schools of thought on older BMWs I suppose.

1. get a good one and look after it. Unfortunately this can lead to some quite expensive servicing bills if done properly.

2. get one fairly cheap and treat it as disposable - like, if it breaks and the cost to fix would be more than £x, throw it away.

3. if you can't afford 1, and don't want to do 2, best bet is probably don't buy an older BMW.

The problem is that BMWs are "upmarket" devices, and even the less expensive models tend to be in e.g. a higher state of tune than a cooking Ford, have suspension which is better balanced etc. All of which tends to mean that they just need more TLC than some other cars, and that TLC costs money. It's also what tends to make them nicer cars than e.g. a cooking Ford to drive.

In the end, you pays your money... it's exactly the same with any other "prestige" car - you can find some pretty exotic mid-80s machinery for the same sort of money these days as an ordinary family saloon, but if the clutch goes on your 15-year-old £10K Ferrari, it's still going to cost you an arm and a leg to get it replaced, because that's what it costs to do a clutch on a Ferrari. You just have to be aware of the potential cost and risk before you spend the money, and able to cope with the downside if it happens.

nicebloke36

thanks PAULT, its not so much the servicing costs, its the 'buying the dream car that then drops to bits on you and gets cracked blocks' sort of problem....
anyway thanks for all the advice
paul

Johnny50

How about an E30 318is ??

A lot cheaper to run than a 320 or 325i.

But you lose out by not having that nice 6 cylinder engine.

I drive a D plate 325i Sport quite a lot (friend of mines)
It's on 180k...and still pulls as strong as it did when new.

New To Scoob

Agree with Johnny on the choice there, the 1990 G/H plated 318is is a belter if a motor if you can find a good one, the 318is was also put into the E36 but you realy need a post '96 (I think) model coz BMW revised the inlet system to give a little more power 142bhp IIRC, the early 318is's on the E36 chassis were a bit to lardy.