172 starting issues
10 January 2003, 01:34 PM
#1
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Lawnmower syndrome? A lot of modern 16V cars do not like being started from cold, backed out of the garage and switched off after 15 seconds running.
Does yer mum do a lot of that sort of stuff?
FYI, "lawnmower syndrome" is where a 4 valve/cylinder hydraulic tappet engine gets a brief run as with backing it out of garage to fetch lawnmower, and then after a few hours is hard to start 'cos one or more cylinders has no compression.
This occurs for a combination of several reasons:
1. low valve spring force since valves are smaller and lighter
2. the oil that lubricates exhaust valve stems gets cooked on to stem and is turned into a very thick film when the undried condensation from a brief run is present
3. the hydraulic tappets are allowed to "over adjust" since the oil pump is very effective even at starter speed and the sluggish to close valves due to the goo on stems allow the tappets to overfill and hold valves partially open.
My old Mondeo and my bro-in-law's Focus suffered horribly from this. Basically, any manoeuver from stone cold always involbed a drive down the street and back. Very low Wife Acceptance Factor
[Edited by brickboy - 10/1/2003 1:39:08 PM]
Does yer mum do a lot of that sort of stuff?
FYI, "lawnmower syndrome" is where a 4 valve/cylinder hydraulic tappet engine gets a brief run as with backing it out of garage to fetch lawnmower, and then after a few hours is hard to start 'cos one or more cylinders has no compression.
This occurs for a combination of several reasons:
1. low valve spring force since valves are smaller and lighter
2. the oil that lubricates exhaust valve stems gets cooked on to stem and is turned into a very thick film when the undried condensation from a brief run is present
3. the hydraulic tappets are allowed to "over adjust" since the oil pump is very effective even at starter speed and the sluggish to close valves due to the goo on stems allow the tappets to overfill and hold valves partially open.
My old Mondeo and my bro-in-law's Focus suffered horribly from this. Basically, any manoeuver from stone cold always involbed a drive down the street and back. Very low Wife Acceptance Factor
[Edited by brickboy - 10/1/2003 1:39:08 PM]
01 October 2003, 01:04 AM
#2
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Mothers car every now and then just won't start 
It's an 02 Clio 172 The engine turns as it should but won't fire. It's going back to the dealer at some point, but as they've already had a crack at it i thought i would fish about to see if there are any common problems that i should know about, to possibly point them in the right direction
I thought i'd post i here as well as Cliosport.net cos you lot know your stuff
It's an 02 Clio 172 The engine turns as it should but won't fire. It's going back to the dealer at some point, but as they've already had a crack at it i thought i would fish about to see if there are any common problems that i should know about, to possibly point them in the right direction I thought i'd post i here as well as Cliosport.net cos you lot know your stuff
01 October 2003, 09:09 AM
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Wheel it 20m down the road. Might be radio interference. A number of people are suffering this with all types of car...
MB
MB
01 October 2003, 01:00 PM
#5
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I didn't really explain it too well actually
When i said it won't actually fire - it does. After the engine has turned for a while (few seconds) it will just about catch. When it does the idle is very ropey. It seems like a cold engine related issue to me. It's fair to say many engines are a bit ropey when cold, but this is just too ropey me thinks
<Brun - must explain stuff better in future>
When i said it won't actually fire - it does. After the engine has turned for a while (few seconds) it will just about catch. When it does the idle is very ropey. It seems like a cold engine related issue to me. It's fair to say many engines are a bit ropey when cold, but this is just too ropey me thinks
<Brun - must explain stuff better in future
>
01 October 2003, 01:21 PM
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Does she just jump in, turn the key and go or...
Does she turn the key so the ignition lights come on, wait a couple of secs for the fuel pump to prime, then fire it up?!
Try the latter method and see if it works!
Does she turn the key so the ignition lights come on, wait a couple of secs for the fuel pump to prime, then fire it up?!
Try the latter method and see if it works!
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01 October 2003, 07:55 PM
#8
Brickboy - I think the valve problem is more common to the zetec engines, as ford had alot of problems with the top end on those engines (including my 3 cylinder escort ) which is why they went from recommending 10w40 oil to 5w40 then down to 0w40!
But it's always possible (especially with it being French)
Brun - what kind of use does the car get? Short journeys etc? If so, it probably needs a good blast.
) which is why they went from recommending 10w40 oil to 5w40 then down to 0w40!But it's always possible (especially with it being French
)Brun - what kind of use does the car get? Short journeys etc? If so, it probably needs a good blast.
02 October 2003, 01:19 PM
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Bought my wife a 172 in june (03), we have experianced the same reluctance to start from cold. Are there any more faults/querks with the 172 that we should know about?
Would like car to sound better, it does sound flat at the moment any ideas? Bare in mind car is new, all parts are the same and therefore do not want to extensivly change.
Would like car to sound better, it does sound flat at the moment any ideas? Bare in mind car is new, all parts are the same and therefore do not want to extensivly change.
02 October 2003, 01:31 PM
#10
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I moved the car last night from cold and gave it time to prime the fuel pump. I couldn't hear a thing I turned the engine but it wouldn't fire so i released the key at which point i heard the fuel pump. Tried again and it fired straight up WTF?
Ali - The car is often driver by my Dad to work which means a 40 mile round trip so it does get a regular blast. It's about time i was let loose in it though for a proper seeing to
Darts - there ain't alot you can do unless you want to kill the warentee. Personally i would fit an induction kit which can be easily removed before service time.
I turned the engine but it wouldn't fire so i released the key at which point i heard the fuel pump. Tried again and it fired straight up WTF?Ali - The car is often driver by my Dad to work which means a 40 mile round trip so it does get a regular blast. It's about time i was let loose in it though for a proper seeing to
Darts - there ain't alot you can do unless you want to kill the warentee. Personally i would fit an induction kit which can be easily removed before service time.
02 October 2003, 05:34 PM
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Both my 172's did this. I just put it down to a "feature", never really bothered me too much. Although i did notice it only ever happened when I put Optimax in it!?
, never really bothered me too much. Although i did notice it only ever happened when I put Optimax in it!?
02 October 2003, 10:47 PM
#13
They sound qute rorty as standard -once the valve thingy doobrey wotsimacallit kicks in
Hmmm, no fuel pump. Tempramental fuel pump relay?
Darts:- plenty of stuff... do a search, but heres something to chew on for now
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadID=208766
Hmmm, no fuel pump. Tempramental fuel pump relay?
Darts:- plenty of stuff... do a search, but heres something to chew on for now
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadID=208766
03 October 2003, 10:53 AM
#14
Scooby Senior
I decided to have a quick look at the instruction book and would you know it - after the ignition is turned on, the car requires upto 3 seconds to recognise the key. This might see common sense, but next time you get in your car, turn on the ignition and give it 3 seconds - it seems an absolute lifetime. Anyway, she gave this a crack first thing and it started without issue. We'll have to see if it's a fluke or not
05 November 2003, 10:44 PM
#19
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Never tried it TBH, however that would be outlined in the owners book if it was required. The problem seems intermittent so i think it's gonna be a case of dealer trial and error
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