fatherpierre

Thanks for your opinionated critique.

Your argument holds no real sense as the car industry, like most heavy and technical industries have gone elsewhere.

Rover is only British because BMW didn't want it and no one else did when BMW ditched it.

If this country can't compete to keep the jobs here, then we lose them - simple economics that apply to every industry.

The motor industry has simply been taken over a big few who have bought up other car companies in order to cut costs, and obviously reduce competition.

Who owns the company is largely irrelevant as long as they're quality products that sell.

Rover were once considered a good bet by the German giants, then they thought again and got rid.

I personally don't care if Rover stay British/survive, that's all down to them making good cars and changing their image.

[Edited by fatherpierre - 7/1/2003 10:09:10 PM]

Mega

MGR and WSR are to show a new ZS model at the MG show at Silverstone this weekend. 0-60 in 6.9 and 140 mph top out. For the mods we see new wheels and tyres, green brakes, a crappy bit of plastic. Good points are twin exhursts, however they are keeping tight lipped ref the power out put.

We suspect that its little more than an induction kit.....and they demand £20,000 for this!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think MGR should go and see what you can get for £20,000 these days!
Mega

Duck_Pond

I have to admit that I really like the Z range. The ZS handles very well (harder set up than my Scooby) and the exhaust combined with the V6 engine note is fantastic.

Could do with more power, as could the ZT... still waiting for the 385bhp version to arrive. Been promised for ages.

I agree though - £20k is way too much considering the competition around.

MGJohn

MEGA you still trying to talk MG Zeds down and your "must have latest thing" Honda CTR Focus clone up? .....

Treated other half to a ZS120+ recently. With all that superb ZS handling and only 120 to play with the car has that unburstable chuckability I like. More importantly, there's a bonus .... she likes it too .....which is nice ...

MGJohn

BTW those new ZS figures you quoted: "0-60 in 6.9 and 140 mph top out"..... almost identical to the old R220 Coupe turbo which came out over ten years ago.

PsychO

..

drb5

iTrader: (4)

sorry lads. it's still a feckin rover with some flashy plastic in my view!

Huey220

Been in a ZS180 - not as quick as my 220 Coupe Turbo but handles so well, and excellent brakes (something the 220 lacked) seemed well put together - I liked it.

logiclee

The MG ZS180 is a good buy (Especially nearly new and ex-demo's) IMO.

A raw driving experience similar to the first Classic scoobs. The V6 engine note is superb.

£20k for a slightly higher specced version is taking the mick though. You could wait 6 months and buy one for £12k, that would be a good buy.

Lee

Duck_Pond

My brother just picked up an MG ZS 180, in X-Power grey, that was registered in Sept 02, and covered about 3000 miles, for a shade over £10k.

He is in the trade though... but it does show that you can get them for seriously small amounts of money, if you look around.

Mega

There is a reson WHY they are so cheap!
Mega

logiclee

Mega,

Its called supply and demand.

The market for a small, big engined, hard riding and raw car isn't a big one so there is a problem with over supply. It does not reflect on how good or bad the car is itself. The MGZS maybe based on the Rover 45/400/old Civic but its a very capable motor as all the motoring press seem to agree.

Try a new Mondeo V6, its a very good car, the best in its class, but over supply means you can pick up a year old example for 50% of its new list price.

I suppose its all down to Image and branding, but if image is more important to someone than the car itself and the cost then that probably says more about the person than the car.

Don't forget the first people to buy a Scoob were laughed at, buying a fast, rusty, farmers car that ought to have sheep in the back. Its a good job these people in the early 90's could see a good car lurking behind the (Then) farm image.

I suppose Skoda is going through the same thing now with cars like the Skoda vRS Octavia and maybe the RS Fabia. A good car unless you are shallow enough to let the badge bother you.

Lee

Duck_Pond

To say the MG ZS is just a Rover with bits of plastic stuck on is a little unfair. Sure, the version with the big spoiler does look fairly "in-yer-face", but underneath the engine and handling have been radically changed.

Much like the CTR. I doubt people buying that would consider a normal Civic. But in its flame-throwing Type-R guise, it's a different beast to the shopping-trolley normal car.

And the public must agree, as the MG models are selling very well.. which may inspire more radical versions to come about.

GTI

Do not like Rovers and I like the MG versions even less because of the in your face body kits but must agree there bloody good little cars - just need sort out supply, customer service and more I'm sure will sell as the reputation improves.
Hope it starts to do better for the sake of the brits.

MGJohn

GTI WROTE:

>>Hope it starts to do better for the sake of the brits. <<

Did you really mean "The Brits"? Us Brits would be more suitable or are you one of the many aliens who now infest our shores taking our jobs, hand outs, women and NOT buying our cars ....

More seriously, all true Brits should play a part to ensure MG-R's survival. Sadly, I don't think there's now enough in our nation as a whole that cares sufficiently. So it could simply be a matter of time. If, or is it when that day comes, from my observations it will be a true indicator of just how much the average brit cares now.

MGJohn

MEGA WROTE

>> There is a reson WHY they are so cheap!
Mega <<

Mike, you still appear to have the hump about paying full whack for your Focus Clone type R ....

fatherpierre

I don't think it's a case of caring.......

People have more choice, are more informed on what they're buying and competition is more fierce due to higher quality.

Plus, stigma still holds true for many brands.

How many people do 'foreign' car companies employ in the UK? If you add all those together you could use the argument: Keep British jobs - buy a Japanese car

MGJohn

fatherpierre,

You're guilty of not looking beyond say next Tuesday. When the time comes, those alien controlled manufacturers WILL sling their hooks elsewhere and build 'em where it's cheapest whilst at the same time still wishing to sell them where they're dearest. Guess where? You need diagrams ...?

Those manufacturers have sent out numerous warnings .... and future Governments will not be able to allow them huge financial incentives (under the table back-handers?)to build on green field sites as has been the case in the recent past.

People will only have more choice whilst they can afford to choose .... without a job their range of choice is academic.

MGJohn

Fp wrote (MUCH SNIPPED):

>> I personally don't care if Rover stay British/survive, that's all down to them making good cars and changing their image. <<

That's careless ..... If only it was as simple as that ... diagrams would be wasted on you ......

Prediction - there will come a time when you will care ..... wait and see.

fatherpierre

Don't draw any then!

How many people do you think honestly care who own Rover or if they keep going?

People buy products for quality and image. Cars are no different.

M&S used to brag that 90% of their products were UK made. They almost went to the wall and now less than 20% of there goods are made here.

I could point you to some economics books to read - but I'd be wasting my time

Duck_Pond

BMW pulled a master stroke (for them) when they bought Rover. It enabled them to obtain the 2 car-types thay needed to complete their range.

1. The Mini - filled their need for a small car, and with the trademark of "Mini" it was never going to be difficult to sell.

2. Off-roader(s). They obtained the technology to create SUVs to compete with the likes of Range Rover and now the Freelander (X3), by having unrestricted access to those exact cars.

Then they also managed to channel their R&D costs through the Rover side, claimed it was losing money (which it probably was anyway) and sacked it off, retaining the bits they needed.

Marvellous for BMW, not too good for Rover. Hence the reason why it is good to see the MG range doing well, and getting decent reviews from all aspects of the Motoring Press.

Whether Rover / MG can provide the same standard of Customer Service and Care as is provided by BMW, only time will tell.