LG John

So how quick are these supposed to be? I was out in my aunts this evening and gave it a good old testing The real bonus is the 30+ mpg despite the REAL TESTING

Anyways, what in real world terms/experience is the performance of these cars like? I found it fairly quick to about 70 and then by 100mph it was really struggling to motor! I expected it would pull a little better at the top end to be honest. Also I used the trusty stop watch method to figure 30-70 and got between 7.5-8.5s which is slower than the VTS!! I'd have expected the 150 to eat a VTS at that sort of range! It did have 5k miles so I suppose its a baby in diesel terms and I'm guessing the 17" santa's didn't help but I was still a little confused/dissapointed.

Anyone got any mag stats, real stats, experiences, etc. I've heard claims of REVO'd 130's (190bhp/290lbft) out accelerating VR6's!! Is this feasible?

Lovely car by the way, smooth, nice to look at when kitted up, lots of toys, etc

ChrisB

These are magazine (Autocar maybe?) figures for the Ibiza TDi Sport which is the PD130 engine...



I believe it's quicker than the Golf PD130 due to different gear ratio's or something? It's the six speed box.

[Edited by ChrisB - 6/16/2003 9:31:26 AM]

Boarder1

Would the air temperature this time of year, not have an effect on the performance of a turbo diesel, I know our TD 4x4 Nissan is powerless in hot weather.

Mark

NACRO

They really are not quick cars...even the chipped 150PD golf is pretty slow. They give the impression of speed because of the massive torque. In reality as you say a Saxo VTS would beat one to 100mph. Some highly modded examples are quicker but really.....these cars can't be beaten in one aspect at least, high speed, high MPG cruising. Makes a lot of sense in europe where you can do those high speeds for many 100's of mile without refueling and the diesel can be 1/2 the price of SUL. In the UK where speeding means a ban and the diesel is more expensive I'm not so sure. As I've said before these make sense as a tax beating company car, a performance car- NO!

brickboy

Diesels that are not chipped are not quick in tests of all-out acceleration through the gears. They never do well in 30-70 or 0-whatever comparisons.

What they *are* good at is in-gear grunt ... for example, you're stuck behind a caravanner doing 45mph. You're in 4th gear, you spot a gap, poke the throttle and go. No need to stir the gearbox, instant grunt. As the old saying goes, it's the torque that gets you moving.

That's why road tests in Car and Evo mag say that on everyday, real-world roads, the PD150 Golf will be just as quick and more relaxing point-to-point than the petrol turbo GTi.

Diesels do demand a different style of driving: instead of keeping the revs above 4K, you need to keep them between 2 and 3K. That's why the hot diesels have a six-speed box, to help you keep in the torque band. But no, they're not a sports car.

Once you get above about 3.5K rpm, you quickly realise you're only in a 150bhp, heavy Golf.

By the way, economy on my Passat 130 "sport" is 55mpg, cruising at 85mph.

[Edited by brickboy - 6/16/2003 10:18:01 AM]

golfliam

"even a chipped 150 pd is slow"

Not sure how a car with a 190 bhp and 300 lbs of torque can be decribed as slow just because its a diesel.....

thats almost as much power as a CTR with twice as much torque
if anything it should feel quicker because you have instant power
but you change up earlier straight back into twice as much torque as a CTR

why is the CTR described as fast but a diesel golf is slow
even with the same power delivered differently

NACRO

GolfLiam

what is the 0-100 time for a chipped PD150- I believe it is in the 17's at best. By any standard that is pretty slow for a chipped modded car- I believe standard you are talking in the 20s!!!!Please correct me if I'm wrong, I drove one and it really didn't feel quick. However I also passengered in a chipped VAG Turbo powered Octavia RS and that really did fly- so perhaps as far as performace cars go petrol power still rules.
I'm always willing to listen to evidence to the contrary.

golfttish

Nacro
Chipped diesels are as you say around 17-18s to a ton. How is this slow?
Go through the back of Autocar and find how many cars are quicker. They're all serious performance cars.
And by the way I don't like diesel and am a confirmed optimax with toluene head.

ChrisB

Speed for TDi's are all about in gear acceleration (ie cross country runs), not the straight-line traffic light GP

IMHO, at least...

TopBanana

The peak torque and power figures are deceptive. While the peak torque and power are quite good, the band of usable torque is very narrow. It's the area under the torque / revs graph that counts here, and that's where high-revving petrol cars win out. The point is that they're easy to drive if everyday scenarios but not well suited to drag racing

LG John

Those figures for the 130 are bloody good!! I don't think the 150 I drove was cracking 24s to a ton!! I did a speedo 30-100 (so not a proper) ton in 20.5s so if you factor in 3s for 0-30 and the 1st-2nd change the 150 doesn't seem any quicker

If a chipped TD golf could crack 0-100 in 17s I'd be a happy chap as thats still pretty grunty and it would be good for overtaking and poking around in traffic

I've looked at REVO stuff and it seems the 130PD can be mapped to be almost as good as a REVO'd 150 which suggests (given the difference in price) that the 130 might be a good idea as the base car - thus leaving spare cash for goodies

NACRO

0-100 in 17's is very slow (for a modded chipped motor costing 16K+) when you consider my knackered old Subaru is doing it in 14's, Saxo's are doing it in 15's (and lower!) as are Clio Sports, Cups etc etc. My point is these are not performance cars and should not be considered as such- the problem is the drivers of these vehicles generally seem to think they are pretty quick- I'm only too glad to show them the error of their ways!

ChrisB

Hello

0-100 or quarter sprints are not real world performance.

NACRO

Depends how often you do them!

I agree the Golf is a great car for motorway journeys etc etc but the htread title is "Golf PD 150 performance!" my point is that the performance is pretty poor compared to other "fast" cars. As for their "real world performance" (whatever that means- to me it's a term coined by motoring journalists that means sod all)I will say this I did a 1000 mile run in my Impreza and was "beaten" by my friend driving a VW Polo non-turbo diesel- because he didn't have to keep stopping for fuel!
Fact is that the PD150 is not a performance car and the figures prove it.

ChrisB

It means that 0 to 100 sprints are not everyday driving. Does your drive to work take in Santa Pod?

There's a time on the IWOC web site for a MY97 Scooby - 30-50mph in 3rd : 4.0sec. The Ibiza time above is .5 second behind it for the same segment. Make that a newer and hence heavier MY01/02 and I'd have money on them being equal...

LG John

I don't see how you can call 0-100 in 17s slow when you've got the added benefit of monster in gear performance. Couple in 30+mpg when booting it stupid and I'd say thats all round not too bad. It won't live with a scooby but if I could get a PD to 100 in 17s believe me I'd be a happy chap as I'd have all I need: toys, comfort, quality, lots of mpg and also some useful performance

NACRO

"real world performance" is IMHO total ****- if I want to "beat" someone in an another car then I would not be doing 30-50 in 3rd gear- I would be in 2nd. In gear times are misleading and usually quoted in 5th! A car's performance takes in many aspects including 1/4 mile times. The only people who come out with this kind of stuff are those trying to defend the times/performance of their cars. Do you really expect anyone here to believe that a VAG diesel is a performance car- it is not.
They are very good at what they do but a performance car-no I'm afraid not. As for 0-100 sprints not being part of your every day drive, well I'm here to inform you that I do them almost daily- away from the tolls.
If the thread title had been "drive for many miles in comfort at high speed while not using much fuel" then the VAG diesel wins hands down. The fact is these are low revving, poor handling, overweight vehicles best used as a method of getting from A-B not driver's performance cars.
An example- I am sat at the lights waiting to come onto a dual carriageway. Over confident rep driving a PD150 pulls up along side me and plans to beat me to the next lights and thus cut a large traffic Q. This happens with the same guy frequently and every time he gets his *** handed to him on a plate- still you've got to give him credit for blind optimism. These cars are not performance vehicles- in fact their performance is pretty poor.
"real world performance" PAH. Bring on the next one!

NACRO

Saxo boy - I didn't say these were bad cars- In fact they are very good cars, just that their performance is talked up a lot by people who are deluding themselves. In the scheme of things are you going to be happy when you get wasted by some ned in a VTS?
Comfortable, great value, economical, great cruisers, well built- the VAG diesels have all of these qualities. Performance cars- do me a favour!
BTW I have had a 1.8T 150BHP, 115 diesel, 130 diesel in Golf and Passat forms so I know what I'm talking about. Torque- yes, impressive in gear performance yes, any good as a driver's car- NO!

golfliam

Your never going to get wasted by VTS because by the time thier trying to ring every last bhp out of the motor the PD is gone

talking of drag strips checkout this thread
http://www.uk-mkivs.net/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3577&SearchTerms=y ork,dragway

seems they do ok their anyway :-)

golfliam

BTW I have had a 1.8T 150BHP, 115 diesel, 130 diesel in Golf and Passat forms so I know what I'm talking about. Torque- yes, impressive in gear performance yes, any good as a driver's car- NO!

Not saying u didn't have these cars
but why didn't you chip any of them or play around with the suspension - big difference between standard and chipped
if you had you might have got to see the potential these cars have

so have you been in a chipped 150pd then because thats the one you called slower than a VTS

NACRO

"Your never going to get wasted by VTS because by the time thier trying to ring every last bhp out of the motor the PD is gone"- plain wrong I'm afraid- I don't have and have never had a VTS so I have no vested interest other than the facts.

GOlf Forum guy said"1/4 mile time of 15.42s with me getting 15.63s.PD190"- a good time but still no sports car and easily beatable by many a VTS with few mods. Also I think I'm right in saying York is not the best venue as it's possible to break the starting beam while rolling. Pod times have more validity IMHO.




I didn't chip/modify any of these vehicles as they were company cars (in fact the company used hire cars so every 10,000 they went back to the hire company and I sniffed around their depot at Gatwick for the most interesting cars!) What I will say is that given a choice of a diesel or petrol VAG motor I would choose the petrol as I preferred the lack of weight over the front wheels and they too are easily modded.

You seem very defensive- usually indicative of a weak position. My point is the PD150 is not a sports/fast car or even a hot hatch. It is a very good comfortable mode of transport. If you want to start comparing modded PD150's to say a modded VTS you will find the VTS will kick its *** hands down as I know of at least one running 0-100 in low 14's!

I don't want to turn this into a my cars better than yours thread (which I'm not it would be like comparing chalk n cheese). I'm afraid the facts are pretty clear- the PD150 is a good car but not a performance motor.

I'm always willing to be corrected though if anyone has any actual evidence!

edited to make sense.

[Edited by NACRO - 6/16/2003 2:51:49 PM]

golfliam

I don't even have a PD

You made the comment that even a chipped 150pd is pretty slow and would be beaten to 100 by a VTS - i'm just showing up the comment as nonsense.

NACRO

golfliam are you able to read? If so please try reading what I've posted it's pretty clear

you linked to a Golf site they quote times of "1/4 mile time of 15.42s with me getting 15.63s.PD190"

The fact is that a modded VTS will run in low 15's and low 14's depending on mods.

So in fact you are the one "who is speaking nonsense" although I wouldn't be so downright rude to put it like that (although I guess the gloves are off now). Try getting your facts right before you go shooting your mouth off, it will make you seem a little less stupid and ill informed.

If you have anything of value to add based on some facts rather than your opinion then please do, I am only to happy to be proven wrong as I have no vested interest whatsoever.

blue172

NACRO,

You said you've been a passanger in a chipped skoda vrs?
Iam about to buy one and was just wondering what you thought of it?

cheers
John

NACRO

I was only a passenger but I was pretty impressed at the way the thing pulled and cornered (at the ring). I also had a top driver. Very little body roll, too much understeer for me although I'm sure that can be modded out just like a scoob. The interior was good and to get back on topic it would waste any PD engined VAG motor I am aware of while costing the same/less money. I can't understand why they aren't more popular. I am considering the 4x$ wagon as my next motor- chipped of course.

there are others here who know far more than me about them- perhaps they will be good enough to comment.

golfliam

if you read the link properly
the 190pd got 15.26

when you made the comment earlier you didn't say a "modded" VTS
would be quicker then a chipped 150pd - you said 150pd chipped vs VTS

so through the gears (which isn't a deisels forte) according to your "modded" VTS time their even....

[Edited by golfliam - 6/16/2003 3:31:48 PM]

golfliam

SO now your saying your impressed by a 1.8t'd turbo
was it chipped ?- chipped 1.8T vs chipped PD's are about even

I have a 1.8t that is a little better than chipped and i wouldn't say it would waste a PD VAG Motor





[Edited by golfliam - 6/16/2003 3:45:57 PM]

NACRO

I just re-read it as you advised and yes it does say 15.26- a pretty good time (as I said). When comparing the cars I was of course comparing like with like ie modded with modded sorry that I wasn't more clear. That being the case I agree with you that 15.26 might be the same as a lightly modded VTS- I know of one VTS (no supercharger) running low 14's so easily beating the PD. So to recap a very modded PD will run in low 15's in drag strip conditons- most run 17's. For a modded motor that is not fast.
Anyway I think we are getting away from the point of this thread- we are not here to argue the toss, just to discuss the "Golf PD 150 performance!" which in standard form is pretty slow, when chipped and modded a bit faster 15's. In the scheme of things then no rocket ship. Like I said before- loads of weight over the front wheels add to that body roll, poor grip and it just does not add up to a fast car IMHO.
Let's try and keep it polite and get to the nub of the matter using the facts as we see them (and hopefully like me being able to admit it if you were not clear or just plain wrong).

JMP

Audi A3 with PD 130 motor and upsolute chip have done 14.8s quarter mile here in Finland. So Im pretty sure there is some room for improvement in that PD190 time.

NACRO

golfliam

the chipped vRS Skoda puts out (at least)225BHP with more possible, weighs less than a PD, corners far better and is cheaper.nuff said

We can talk about how they fare against each other but until we can see some race/drag footage we are p*ssing into the wind.

I can only base what I'm saying on my experience and the figures available. Do you think that 15's are impressive (I have to say that for a diesel they are)however in the scheme of things if a 4K Saxo p*sses all over you at the lights I imagine you would think differently.

edited to add: Golfliam can you stop editing your posts and changing things in them? It is very misleading and I prefer to have these friendly discussions with someone who is above board and doesn't keep changing things every 2 minutes.



[Edited by NACRO - 6/16/2003 3:55:13 PM]