SCOSaltire

who cares about traffic lights GPs?

i prefer a drive that i enjoy...
and some diesels can give u that

golfliam

This is pointless - fact is its not going to happen.
i think quite a few guys on the golf forum have actually made that point against VTS etc etc even a scooby wouldn't **** all over it if you campared them from 30 to 100

like i said i drive a 1.8T with a K04 soon to be a IHI jabba conversion with decent suspension etc and i know what it can do
It will not **** all over a chipped 150pd with decent springs and dampers

JMP

Here you can see some measured performance figures for stock Golf PD130 & 150.






[Edited by JMP - 6/16/2003 4:47:48 PM]

NACRO

Forums tales prove nothing if you pop over to the Saxo or Clio forums you will see videos and tales of PD/Petrol VAG motors, scoobs and even Porsches getting their asses whipped by the most unlikley machinery.
So instead of hearsay let's focus on the facts a PD190 (modded) VAG diesel does 15's- that is pretty slow for a modded motor. A stock PD runs in the 20's, very slow. Fact remains the PD is no sports car, in fact it's not even a sporting car and the same can be said of the petrol Golf's. Great cars? Yes- sporting cars? No.

LG John

I'd be fairly chuffed with sub 15 from a chipped 130 That and many many miles per gallon would do me fine and its pretty quick. For context my 100% standard VTS did 15.3 @ 89mph and is the fastest time I've seen for a standard VTS. To get such good times from the Saxo you have to drive flawlessly. I got cought several times with my pants round my ankles by TDi's when I had it!! Modded for modded and the comparison ends though as a VTS would trash any oil burner.

I'm just kind of hoping I can get a chipped PD that'll be comfy, punchy, have lots of toys, cheap to run and performance that sits somewhere between my old saxo and my scooby

Oh, and LOL at the way this thread has developed

golfliam

The example i gave with the link was to show that even somebody who hasn't been to a strip before can get low 15 from a chipped
150pd. its hardly the last word in what they can do and its 0 to whatever isn't even its forte.... in gear flexabilty is what their all about and it would take a seriously fast car to
"****" all over one.

Not really interested in what a modded VTS Can or cannot do
you decribed a chipped 150pd as pretty slow even though u havn't driven one - what is your definition of a quick car... at GTI international a chipped 150pd did 0-60 in 6.5 seconds i'd say that was pretty good considering the traction 6speed box etc again not really its forte

You then went on to say a chipped 1.8t Would **** all over any PD VAG Motor which i find even more strange owning one myself with 235 bhp and 250 lbs torque i wouldn't say it would **** all over a chipped 150pd.

Also like to know what your definition of seriously modded is -
a chip is hardly a major modification - you don't even need to open the bonnet these days. stage 2 on a pd 130 as offered by Amd is what i call a bit more serious - 230bhp with 350lbs of torque...

LG John

Whats involved in a 'stage 2'?

NACRO

So now you are talking about seriously modded motors? not really worthwhile as I could point to various modded cars that run half their standard quarter, 0-100 times when seriously modded. Next you'll be telling me about times run with NoS etc etc.

Standard Saxo VTS V Standard Golf PD- Golf loses

Golf is a heavy car that does not major on driving dynamics.

I talked about a chipped 190PD running 15's as being pretty slow- which it is for a 190BHP motor- power/weight ratio.

So what does your motor run then? With 235 bhp and 250 lbs torque I would be seriously pissed off when chipped 150PD's are able to beat me.(or perhaps you are not telling the full story)
You have your opinion I have mine- standard the PD150 is not a sports car or even a hot hatch.

You also said "Not really interested in what a modded VTS Can or cannot do "- that's a very small minded attitude which suggests you are a very blinkered person. Personally I'm interested in all cars thus my input into this thread.

chrisp

Wake me up when they can get one under 13 to a ton. .

Chins

Just reading this thread and I keep seeing the Saxo mentioned. Bearing in mind a std VTS takes over 7 secs to 60 and 22.6 secs to a ton (EVO mages actual test figures)its certainly no quicker than a 150PD. Now for £500 you'll get a much bigger performance increase with the 150PD than on the Saxo.

How much do you need to spend for a car that will reliably get to the ton in under 15 secs ? My guess is you'll need at least 175bhp to get that kind of performance. Will you also have a peaky little beast that always off cam ?

Remember for £2k you can get 230bhp and 350lbft out of the slow diesel.

Jonathan



[Edited by Chins - 6/16/2003 9:48:42 PM]

NACRO

for 2k you can almost buy the whole saxo!

the point is the PD is not a performance car and I can't believe that anyone views them as such. 15s times from a 190bhp modded car is pretty poor when you consider the size/class of the vehicles.

I've never said they are bad cars- in fact they are very good cars, they are just not fast cars! My VTS exapmle was just the cheapest example of a "hot hatch" which has similar performance to the PD's and which when cheaply modded dusts it by over a sec as they run easily in 14's.

Personally I drive a Subaru Impreza Turbo currently with a few mods and I don't see that as particularly fast, running low 14's with me being kind to the clutch so it is all relative.

Point remains 15's is slow, standard PD un-modded massively slow. Take it or leave it I've ceased to care.

Frazer

To put that link (http://www.uk-mkivs.net/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3577&SearchTerms=y ork,dragway) into perspective I know few cars that have ran at york, a VTS (de-cat, induction kit) that did 14.75 a clio cup (R Sport chip, exhaust, stripped out) did 14.3 and a Williams engined clio valver did 14.2! So those times are good for a diesel but not that quick.

[Edited by Frazer - 6/16/2003 9:23:19 PM]

Chins

This thread keeps moving between 0-100 and 1/4 mile times.

How much to tune a VTS that will crack the ton in under 15 secs ?

From what I can see 142 bhp in a Saxo = approx 19 sec to 100 for £500. Other things Ive read would indicate that £1000 might get you down to 18 secs with 150bhp. That next 3 secs is going to cost some serious money ?

Jonathan

Jonathan

[Edited by Chins - 6/16/2003 10:02:41 PM]

NACRO

Saxoboy said:"For context my 100% standard VTS did 15.3 @ 89mph and is the fastest time I've seen for a standard VTS. To get such good times from the Saxo you have to drive flawlessly"- from the horses mouth so to speak.

I've heard of and seen some standard Saxo's (as well as lightly modded ones) running these sort of times all day long when driven well. I believe £1000 or so will get you down in the 14's.

Getting off topic a bit though- this isn't a cheap performance thread. It's about a heavy, torque laden diesel car with comfort handling and the potential when modded to 190bhp+ to run 15's quarters. Good but no sports car and in the scheme of things not all that quick when you consider a cheap Saxo can beat it standard (both) "in the real world" (I hate that phrase infers that somehow anywhere other than some congested A road/Motorway isn't the real world). Well in my "real world" I would be pretty p1ssed off when some baseball cap wearer in a Saxo canes my 17K diesel car at the lights, round corners etc etc. If you want a Golf PD then buy one , they truly are very good cars, but a sports/fast car, do me a favour.

ChrisB

FWIW...

I did a drive last night in my car. A53 from Stoke to Shrewsbury and return. All single carriageway A road with some nice twisties in places. Coming back I did the trip as quick as I ever did it in my Scooby or 206GTI.

And, no, it's not a £17k Golf But, yes, I did average 45mpg.

NACRO

Glad you enjoyed your drive, that's what its all about.

However when a thread is titled "Golf PD 150 performance!" I think that 0-100 times, quarter times and traffic light grand prix discussions are just as important.

I reckon there is very little difference in times when I compare driving my Impreza from point A to B than when I drive whatever hack the company has given me this month. However there is no comparison in the maount of fun I have- the Impreza makes me smile every time I drive it. No VAG diesel or petrol (apart from my old MK2 16V) has ever done that.

LG John

I sort of see the point you are making Narco and pound for pound the Saxo and other cheap hatches (cup) are pretty good value. A 5k VTS and a £3k charger will get you 200+bhp and 900kg My point it this though, a chipped PD to 190bhp would be brilliant if it could run in the 14s and still get good mpg, be comfy, etc, etc. It turns a fantastic comfy car into a fantastic comfy car that is quite quick and quick enough to live with the hot-hatches of the day. That's got to be a good thing. If you factor in that you might catch a CTR out of VTEC or a Cup in the wrong gear and you'll appreciate the PD 1** can be a bit of a weapon

Until the corners.....

Chins

Nacro, the thing that is confusing on this thread is are you which figures are you talking about. 0-100 or 1/4 Mile. For what I can see whilst the Saxo is cheap its pound for pound on the mod front you'll get more performance from a diesel.

Jonathan

skiddus_markus

Something that I've never seen mentioned with diesels is the gearing.Say they do 120mph at the limiter of say 4000rpm-imagine that in a petrol car.The petrol car would have a theoretical topspeed of around 180mph assuming a 6000rpm limit.Surely this will mean less power at the wheels,as shorter gearing is said to give more power at the wheels(eg a Type R with relatively low torque can still put in very quick 0-60/0-100 due to low ratio gearing and high revving)?Maybe this also contributes to the lacklustre 0-60/0-100 acceleration.
All figures approximate-some diesels will rev higher but most performance cars do too.


[Edited by skiddus_markus - 6/17/2003 4:42:04 PM]

TurboBoost

On another note, I find it odd that people can spend 17 and a half grand on a Golf Diesel then yet more tuning it, but are under the deluded impression they are saving money.
Although I'm sure its mpg will be better than a petrol engined car, its still going to guzzle a bit if you use the performance.
Plus they sound rubbish, and they don't rev.

I used to hate Skodas but a vRS with 220bhp (I find "at least 225bhp" a little hard to swallow from just a chip) seems to be fantastic value for the money. VAG build quality but it actually shifts and a decent handler.
Nice wide power band as well on the 1.8T, I've had an Oettinger Cupra and an AmD A3 with around 200bhp and they fly from a little over 2000rpm to 6000+rpm.

mutant_matt

I believe that the Octavia RS will happily run 240bhp with an exhaust and a flash (a la Ecutek/Revo) remap!!

Narco - this RS at the Ring, wans't Mr TavManRS was it?

Matt