Question for Mycroft
13 April 2003, 12:49 PM
#2
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Ferraris' and Porsches' being 'pants'...
I think they are OK, but to me they represent bad value for money and are not as good as the money/reputation suggests.
People can get better engineered, faster cars that don't attract the filf like maggots on a corpse for far less money.
These so called 'lesser' cars are more usable, less fragile, than the high profile 'look at me' motor cars.
Also I have found that the filf, quite rightly, target the overtly rowdy and ostentatious boy racer types... if their malignant gaze is to continue to be directed at the motorist (after all it is easy work and requires no real effort) then let it be the fools who wish to show-off.
Last Night I was out for a drink... I noticed a little brawl in the street, one guy (known to me) beat the hell out of 3 other guys... the filf arrived and my ''friend'' melted away... the filf probably arrested the 3 stooges... stealth... wins every time and leaves you feeling very smug and self-satisfied... if you are too thick to understand the analogy, I'll post some 'flash-cards' up to explain it graphically.
What do you drive?, just out of interest.
A HEARTFELT THANK-YOU...
I'd like to thank all the drivers of all those cars that keep the filf busy... if you drive a car with any of these:- lary paint jobs, big wings, loud exhausts, gold wheels, chrome wheels, carbunculate bodykits, blacked out windows, whistling and popping BOVs', and any 'known' exotica... you are doing a sterling job and I truly appreciate it.
A genuine and sincere... Thank-you!
[Edited by Mycroft - 4/13/2003 3:00:23 PM]
I think they are OK, but to me they represent bad value for money and are not as good as the money/reputation suggests.
People can get better engineered, faster cars that don't attract the filf like maggots on a corpse for far less money.
These so called 'lesser' cars are more usable, less fragile, than the high profile 'look at me' motor cars.
Also I have found that the filf, quite rightly, target the overtly rowdy and ostentatious boy racer types... if their malignant gaze is to continue to be directed at the motorist (after all it is easy work and requires no real effort) then let it be the fools who wish to show-off.
Last Night I was out for a drink... I noticed a little brawl in the street, one guy (known to me) beat the hell out of 3 other guys... the filf arrived and my ''friend'' melted away... the filf probably arrested the 3 stooges... stealth... wins every time and leaves you feeling very smug and self-satisfied... if you are too thick to understand the analogy, I'll post some 'flash-cards' up to explain it graphically.
What do you drive?, just out of interest.
A HEARTFELT THANK-YOU...
I'd like to thank all the drivers of all those cars that keep the filf busy... if you drive a car with any of these:- lary paint jobs, big wings, loud exhausts, gold wheels, chrome wheels, carbunculate bodykits, blacked out windows, whistling and popping BOVs', and any 'known' exotica... you are doing a sterling job and I truly appreciate it.
A genuine and sincere... Thank-you!
[Edited by Mycroft - 4/13/2003 3:00:23 PM]
13 April 2003, 03:24 PM
#4
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Mycroft,
Not being funny, can we get examples of what you think are better engineered and better value for money. Any that meet both these criteria would be of special interest.
Cheers
Camk
Not being funny, can we get examples of what you think are better engineered and better value for money. Any that meet both these criteria would be of special interest.
Cheers
Camk
13 April 2003, 03:39 PM
#5
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Monocoque rigidity... the stiifer the platform for the suspension to hang the better the car will be, the 'G' attained is determined to a large extent by this... the Soarer has STILL the most rigid production monocoque in the World.
Suspension... the acme of design for suspension is the 'Notional loci 4 link at the front and rear with isolated Anti-roll bars, with controlled deformation of bushing... the Soarer is the only production car with that... the Supra which has similar doesn't have the CDB, this was needed because it was the Worlds first production car with a fully Active suspension system...
You need to start with both the above to build an Active car...
If oyu were to make the scooby active the chassis would twist almost instantly... the Porsche and Ferrari the same...
A tangible value of this rigidity?:-
I have had some scary moments in cars over the years and some have left me in Hospital... the most frightening are high-speed blow-outs... I have had 8 of them over the years all except the last 2 have resulted in a crash of some kind... all until the last 2 were at between 90-110mph, the last 2 have happened at 130mph and 140mph the last 2 were also front wheels and resulted in a destroyed tyre... the last 2 have happened in my Soarer... both caused hardly a stir, the Soarers trick suspension and fantastic ally rigid chassis has saved my life twice... to calmly stop, change the wheel and then drive on both times is a staggering, staggering testament to a great car....
Suspension... the acme of design for suspension is the 'Notional loci 4 link at the front and rear with isolated Anti-roll bars, with controlled deformation of bushing... the Soarer is the only production car with that... the Supra which has similar doesn't have the CDB, this was needed because it was the Worlds first production car with a fully Active suspension system...
You need to start with both the above to build an Active car...
If oyu were to make the scooby active the chassis would twist almost instantly... the Porsche and Ferrari the same...
A tangible value of this rigidity?:-
I have had some scary moments in cars over the years and some have left me in Hospital... the most frightening are high-speed blow-outs... I have had 8 of them over the years all except the last 2 have resulted in a crash of some kind... all until the last 2 were at between 90-110mph, the last 2 have happened at 130mph and 140mph the last 2 were also front wheels and resulted in a destroyed tyre... the last 2 have happened in my Soarer... both caused hardly a stir, the Soarers trick suspension and fantastic ally rigid chassis has saved my life twice... to calmly stop, change the wheel and then drive on both times is a staggering, staggering testament to a great car....
13 April 2003, 03:45 PM
#6
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anything other than a Soarer then ? Surely there is more to it than chassis ? Its not like blowouts are an everyday occurance and most people would not use this as a measure of ability from a car.
cheers
Camk
[Edited by camk - 4/13/2003 3:48:25 PM]
cheers
Camk
[Edited by camk - 4/13/2003 3:48:25 PM]
13 April 2003, 03:48 PM
#7
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A Porsche will kill you in a 90mph blow-out unless you are staggeringly lucky... the Ferrari the same, as the tyre deflates rapidly the loads are all wrong to the already flimsy chassis of the Porsche (marginal torsional rigidity) and this destroys the cars stability...kiss yer ahse goodbye time... you can only hold on and prey...
On my car the isolated A/R bar allows fast movement so the side that has no puncture is not forced down the TEMS system reads the sudden change ands stiffens the shocker on that side of the car and because there is so little deflection in the monocoque that the car remains stable... the 130mph and 140 mph were completely and utterly devoid of drama... the car never swerved or vered from its traffic lane or even from the path I was steering...
On my car the isolated A/R bar allows fast movement so the side that has no puncture is not forced down the TEMS system reads the sudden change ands stiffens the shocker on that side of the car and because there is so little deflection in the monocoque that the car remains stable... the 130mph and 140 mph were completely and utterly devoid of drama... the car never swerved or vered from its traffic lane or even from the path I was steering...
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13 April 2003, 03:53 PM
#8
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The blowouts are just a very graphic example... people on here talk about how can a car make such amazing 'G' in turns?... that is also a direct effect of chassis stiffness/trick suspension.
13 April 2003, 03:53 PM
#9
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surely a bit of an overdramatic statement. I still come back to the point that its difficult to support the greatness of a car due to its ability to survive a blowout.
Cheers
Camk
Cheers
Camk
13 April 2003, 04:00 PM
#10
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Agreed that rigidity of chassis has an effect on ability to use engine performance but like everything else in life it has a counter effect, in this case on cost,usability and comfort.
If this TEMS system is so good then why is it not more widely available as happens in the case of technology like ABS and traction control.
Are you also saying that there are no other cars you rate ? You did say that many 'other' cars offer better engineering at a better cost than Porsche or Ferarri.
Cheers
Camk
If this TEMS system is so good then why is it not more widely available as happens in the case of technology like ABS and traction control.
Are you also saying that there are no other cars you rate ? You did say that many 'other' cars offer better engineering at a better cost than Porsche or Ferarri.
Cheers
Camk
13 April 2003, 04:02 PM
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You have to admit it is a big improvement over dying at the wheel.
I'd rather drive something that will look after me and do 'the right thing' by me than drive a flimsy piece of Origami.
To me dying at the wheel of a (previously) beautiful coffin is not appealing, but each to their own, I'd rather walk away and look back... than leave in various carrier bags.
I'd rather drive something that will look after me and do 'the right thing' by me than drive a flimsy piece of Origami.
To me dying at the wheel of a (previously) beautiful coffin is not appealing, but each to their own, I'd rather walk away and look back... than leave in various carrier bags.
13 April 2003, 04:04 PM
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It first appeared on the Soarer JZZ30 in '91, in'02 it appeared on the new Maser V8 and the '04 AMV8 gets it... says it all really.
Sadly someone saw fit to remove the Modena 360 thread, along with it a more in-depth explanation of this... pity.
[Edited by Mycroft - 4/13/2003 4:12:58 PM]
Sadly someone saw fit to remove the Modena 360 thread, along with it a more in-depth explanation of this... pity.
[Edited by Mycroft - 4/13/2003 4:12:58 PM]
13 April 2003, 04:23 PM
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These 2 groups also bought the A/R bar isolation licence from Toyota...
It first appeared on the XKR... and will make its debut on the new Ferrari GT in '04/'05, it was first used by the Fiat group on the latest Maserati also...
Still the Soarer can't be that advanced can it...
You'd know about such things... wouldn't you!
Moses, nah... but the Pagani is a filf magnet I bet... a licence loser if you want to use it properly... that's for certain... another hopeless toy for the super-rich to bolster their egos'... the filf on here would love to pull one... of that I'm certain... the 'Canteen Kudos' of such a 'kill' would be huge...
[Edited by Mycroft - 4/13/2003 4:30:46 PM]
It first appeared on the XKR... and will make its debut on the new Ferrari GT in '04/'05, it was first used by the Fiat group on the latest Maserati also...
Still the Soarer can't be that advanced can it...
You'd know about such things... wouldn't you!
Moses, nah... but the Pagani is a filf magnet I bet... a licence loser if you want to use it properly... that's for certain... another hopeless toy for the super-rich to bolster their egos'... the filf on here would love to pull one... of that I'm certain... the 'Canteen Kudos' of such a 'kill' would be huge...
[Edited by Mycroft - 4/13/2003 4:30:46 PM]
13 April 2003, 05:20 PM
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Mycroft,
So the Zonda is a crap car because it is expensive and only driven by idiots with large ego's and small appendages?
If you are a person that has been lucky and successful, that doesnt have to just mean "City boys" then by your thinking you should live in a one bedroom flat, and spend all day denying yourself luxuries that you may or may not have slaved for.
The things you own dont define who you are Mycroft, what you do for a living doesnt either. I dont judge people by the things they drive or own but you seem to make judgements at every oppurtunity.
So the Zonda is a crap car because it is expensive and only driven by idiots with large ego's and small appendages?
If you are a person that has been lucky and successful, that doesnt have to just mean "City boys" then by your thinking you should live in a one bedroom flat, and spend all day denying yourself luxuries that you may or may not have slaved for.
The things you own dont define who you are Mycroft, what you do for a living doesnt either. I dont judge people by the things they drive or own but you seem to make judgements at every oppurtunity.
13 April 2003, 05:21 PM
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Yep, that's what I was thinking. I've driven Christ-knows how many miles (we're talking 50k/year for a while now) and I buy decent brands with a proper speed rating, check my tyre pressures weekly, replace them when they are worn out, avoid kerbs and road debris and I've never had even one blowout.
I also can't see that it makes a blind bit of difference what the make, colour, shape or anything else of what you're driving makes - if you're doing 130mph+ the 'filf' will see you just as easily in a Ferrari, a Focus or a pig-ugly Jap luxo-coupe at that speed and will pull you if they can, end of.
I also can't see that it makes a blind bit of difference what the make, colour, shape or anything else of what you're driving makes - if you're doing 130mph+ the 'filf' will see you just as easily in a Ferrari, a Focus or a pig-ugly Jap luxo-coupe at that speed and will pull you if they can, end of.
13 April 2003, 05:53 PM
#20
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Tyres, lots of different ones and I am fanatical about pressures etc... I do drive fairly quickly though... so they do take a bit of punishment.
Rich,
Again (it seems) you really can't read... I have NOT called the Pagani a crap car... re-read the text and stop putting words in my mouth... you put your own interpretation on my text... I think that says more about you than me. (small appendages) hahaha
RB5#295
###
a pig-ugly Jap luxo-coupe
###
Is the RB5 a coupe?
Can it be classed as luxurious?
More to the point can it really sustain 130+mph?
But there certainly are some intensely ugly Japanese cars out there, I would never buy a Japanese designed car... the Japanese design houses can't draw for toffee... sorry to say it but it is true... I know that if my Soarer had been penned in Japan then I would never have bought one... thank you Pinin-farina!
Rich,
Again (it seems) you really can't read... I have NOT called the Pagani a crap car... re-read the text and stop putting words in my mouth... you put your own interpretation on my text... I think that says more about you than me. (small appendages) hahaha
RB5#295
###
a pig-ugly Jap luxo-coupe
###
Is the RB5 a coupe?
Can it be classed as luxurious?
More to the point can it really sustain 130+mph?
But there certainly are some intensely ugly Japanese cars out there, I would never buy a Japanese designed car... the Japanese design houses can't draw for toffee... sorry to say it but it is true... I know that if my Soarer had been penned in Japan then I would never have bought one... thank you Pinin-farina!
13 April 2003, 06:01 PM
#21
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Mycroft, which soarer do you have? i was about to buy one, but i opted for the 300ZX. the only thing that made me think twice about the soarer was the running costs as i didn't know anyone with one, in order to have my questions answered.
13 April 2003, 06:12 PM
#22
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You can run a Soarer TT for 2 years on what the Average 300ZX TT costs to run in a year... sorry to say it, but it is the truth...
My car is fairly hot
... and is on original everything and costs £750 a year in maintainance that is everything...
I have in 4 years replaced only the water pump... it was leaking when it arrived... it is still running all the bulbs, seat motors, ECUs (all 17 of them) that it arrived with, it has never 'had a day off'...
Built to last the course, save your neck and thrash the living daylights out of anything in silence and without demurr...
My car is fairly hot
... and is on original everything and costs £750 a year in maintainance that is everything...I have in 4 years replaced only the water pump... it was leaking when it arrived... it is still running all the bulbs, seat motors, ECUs (all 17 of them) that it arrived with, it has never 'had a day off'...
Built to last the course, save your neck and thrash the living daylights out of anything in silence and without demurr...
13 April 2003, 06:37 PM
#24
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Is the RB5 a coupe?
Can it be classed as luxurious?
More to the point can it really sustain 130+mph?
Can it be classed as luxurious?
More to the point can it really sustain 130+mph?
From: a Scooby to having enough money to eat
I don't know if it could have sustained 130 mph because:
a/ While I'm happy to press on, do the occasional track day and don't have a lot of respect for out of town speed limits I value my license too much to speed to that excess with any regularity or over any distance.
b/ I wouldn't have been able to keep the thing in fuel at that speed.
It did see 145 the one time I maxed it.
How do you explain your incredible tyre failure rate then? Is the Soarer incredibly heavy? Sorry - I have had no interest in them so I know nothing about them, and from what I've read in this thread with no mention of character, involvement or driving pleasure (apparently the best thing about them is they don't crash if they have a high speed blowout) then I haven't missed anything.
Pininfarina designed some bloody awful cars BTW - I have an Alfa 164 slowly rotting outside with Pinifarina badges on the sides. The Soarer looks to come from the 'bar-of-soap' school of design to me.
Technology has never been a substitue for driver involvement, unfortunately this escapes the Japs in some cases. You don't need to drive a Porsche at 130+ to get pleasure from it and if going very fast is the only way to get a kick out of a car then it's a crap car in my book.
13 April 2003, 06:57 PM
#26
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XT… yep, 2.5 TT….
“ How do you explain your incredible tyre failure rate then?’’
Misfortune I suppose…..
WEIGHT 1490kgs.
INTEREST Don’t apologise… I don’t won’t them to become popular… let the fools buy the Supra… that suits me much better!
PININFARINA They have, also the best looking in the World… but beauty is not really up for grabs here is it, it really is subjective, the bug-eyed abortion being being a case in point… the Soarer has classic lines, the guy who penned my car worked on the 575M and the new MacLaren Merc. Coupe… bar-of-soap?… maybe.
Ahh driver involvement… very important to me… I love my cars handling so beautifully progressive… at the limit it doesn’t do that dreadful ‘big car rock’ that all the Astons/Mercs/even big Ferraris can do, you know the one where the car seems to put its weight on one side then the other as you get close to losing it…. Not she drifts beautifully… I get as much pleasure from my car at town speeds as I do at high speed… with the added advantage of it being as quiet as a Lexus saloon and with the switchable suspension (I have mentioned that haven’t I?) the dreadful potholes and such in town are dismissed without a murmur… you cant hear the motor ‘til 2000rpm… you have to look at the instruments to check it is running… entirely vibration free… not a rattle….
“ How do you explain your incredible tyre failure rate then?’’
Misfortune I suppose…..
WEIGHT 1490kgs.
INTEREST Don’t apologise… I don’t won’t them to become popular… let the fools buy the Supra… that suits me much better!
PININFARINA They have, also the best looking in the World… but beauty is not really up for grabs here is it, it really is subjective, the bug-eyed abortion being being a case in point… the Soarer has classic lines, the guy who penned my car worked on the 575M and the new MacLaren Merc. Coupe… bar-of-soap?… maybe.
Ahh driver involvement… very important to me… I love my cars handling so beautifully progressive… at the limit it doesn’t do that dreadful ‘big car rock’ that all the Astons/Mercs/even big Ferraris can do, you know the one where the car seems to put its weight on one side then the other as you get close to losing it…. Not she drifts beautifully… I get as much pleasure from my car at town speeds as I do at high speed… with the added advantage of it being as quiet as a Lexus saloon and with the switchable suspension (I have mentioned that haven’t I?) the dreadful potholes and such in town are dismissed without a murmur… you cant hear the motor ‘til 2000rpm… you have to look at the instruments to check it is running… entirely vibration free… not a rattle….
13 April 2003, 07:12 PM
#30
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You're still not making me want one, but at least now you are putting forward some more credible advantages than stability during a blow out.
Anyhow - glad you're happy with your car - It'd be a boring life if we all liked the same things.
Anyhow - glad you're happy with your car - It'd be a boring life if we all liked the same things.