pcdude

Ford Focus on BBC1 Watchdog now on , scary stuff !!!!!!!!!!!!!

matt1986

it was over exaggerated! Like paul said it would make braking and steering harder not impossible. And how many ford focus have suffered from that problem?

jonmorris

From a Ford technical guy on the Ford Focus Owners Club;

"What a load of b*ll*cks. I can see why various people were so annoyed about this particular item going out.

I've experienced this problem more than once in 1.6's, once when doing a 3 figure speed down a hill. It's annoying, but nowhere near as serious as they made out - the brakes and steering still work, the brakes are OK for several operations, and the steering is a bit heavier than normal but perfectly useable while you're rolling. Everything is perfectly OK as long as you've got half a brain cell - if you can't cope with a minor problem like this then you shouldn't be driving!

For a start, they kept implying it was a general Focus problem, and not one that's restricted (usually) to the 1.6, they might have mentioned it but not very loudly.

The 2 recalls for engine cutout were 2 different things, one was on the 1.6 auto where excess crank endfloat would damage the crank sensor & stop the car dead - fixed completely years ago. And the other issue is down to the clutch sensor positioning - there's a TSB & everything, and it's easy to sort out & all dealers should know about it. I'd guess the latter is what people were seeing, esp. on older cars where things had shifted from use.

Not one of them mentioned the car only stalled when they put the clutch in, they made out it just died randomly. And that idiot woman obviously couldn't tell the difference between the tacho & speedo - I'd hate to be anywhere nearby while she was driving...

And trying to imply the US recalls were related was seriously dodgy - it's not the same design of car, and it's built to a different (lower) standard. And the car was launched 5 years ago (1998 ), not 3. Just shows how thorough their research was!

And that person complaining after they'd got a replacement car was a bit off - esp. as they replaced the second 'duff' one with... another Focus!! Shows how bad the problem must have been.

NOT impressed by this shoddy piece of journalism - yes, there's a minor issue, but the way they presented it was misleading, and there were other problems they could've covered but didn't.

And they didn't even bother reading the full FMC statement out (I've got a full copy), which is a bit off really, it was only short but they didn't cover half of it - so mcuh for giving people a chance to reply.

Still, there's nothing new in Watchdog producing rubbish umbalanced reports full of inaccuracies, so I can't get too annoyed about it."

Watchdog

What have I done

pcdude

its a fault and a potential serious problem in my book ,

The press can make something out of nothing at times true, but they can also make big companies look up and except there is fault and take responsibilty

not everdody would expect the engine to suddenly cut out ,steering to suddenly go stiff and foot brake harden , , and if you are in a certain situation it
can be very scary ,

GPM2K2

Stop defending Ford, they've fcuked up again, how many recalls is that on the focus now???!!!
Its sounds like a serious and potenially dangerous problem.
Well maybe some good will come of this, maybe people will start to see how crap those cars really are!!!

*Sonic*

I had one of the first Citroen Xantias, and they had a habit of Hydraulic pump failures

basically due to when they built the cars, first tinme they turn the engine on, once it was running, they then filled the pump with hydraulic fluid

Brakes, Steering & Suspension all went on me several times whilst driving the car, it went back, serious letter of complaint, and they resolved the issue

and i got the first Laguna in the country (long before launch) for my troubles

MGJohn

>> if you can't cope with a minor problem like this then you shouldn't be driving! <<

Problem is that MANY less experienced drivers will not be able to cope with things like this and similar. Panic will set in. Because of their inexperience, these are the ones that by word of mouth will falsely give many marques an unfairly bad name. My observations show that there are still a large number of drivers, not necessarily new drivers, who not only never bother to check fluid levels and tyre pressures etc, they don't even know where their bonnet release is! Why is this? ... long service intervals .... These are designed to attract the UK fleet buyers looking for servicing savings who clock up higher mileages quickly so those services come round pretty quickly anyway. "Anyway, I never check those things as the next service is not due for another 6,000 miles. By the way, what's ahead gasket failure?" Never happens ... Oh yes it does .... and you, me and the rest share our roads with these drivers ...

I asked colleagues in a crowded office recently if they knew if their cars were front or rear wheel drive. A number were unable to answer correctly. They simply did not know. These are the people we share our roads with and sometimes approach you sideways on your side of the road during poor driving conditions simply due to this lack of interest, wanting or needing to know. This aspect of driving should form a section of obtaining a full drivers licence .... We will all benefit from this. Much moreso than bombarding motorists with more laws, restrictions and all the rest.

How do others see it?

BTW, I'm NOT a Ford enthusiast and in my opinion, those Ford Focus problems highlighted on WATCHDOG could happen to any new car ..... they really can. About a year ago, WATCHDOG gave comprehensive coverage of the serious problems suffered by the owner of a Top spec BMW (£60ks worth of car IIRC) including traffic control pictures of the poor sod suddenly stranded and stalled on the motorway. Nothing wrong with the car Sir ... where have we heard that before ...

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Well said
MG John

Steve

Stu_WRX

It must have had an effect on some people judging by the amount of 'deposits' that are up for sale on here alone!!

jonmorris

You could hardly suggest that this is indicative of the Focus in general. Come on, if all cars were like this Ford would be bankrupt by now.

I'm not going to suggest you're lying or exaggerating but it seems rather unplausible that so many things could go wrong on one single car.

I suspect there is something more to this story than meets the eye.. Accident damage badly repaired, parked overnight in a lake, serviced by a minimum-wage bod who thought a hammer was a screwdriver...

Jonathan

Addition; You should have got air con. Nobody should go without air conditioning as you need it all year round.

[Edited by jonmorris - 2/7/2003 12:20:32 AM]

DuggE4

I've owned Fords and Subarus and guess which manufacturer gave me trouble free motor cars ? It didn't begin with F, I can tell you that much. People knock Fords and quite rightly so, they really take the pi$$ sometimes, saying that though other manufacturers are just as bad.

Toonman1

"I'm not going to suggest you're lying or exaggerating"

I hope not... It's replies like that, that make me wonder why I reply to threads in Scoobynet!

This all happened, and whether the car stood in a lake, was damaged before delivery (brand new car remember) or whatever, it was up to Ford and the supplying dealer to make sure the vehicle was roadworthy, and of merchantable quality. It wasn't...

4 Impreza Turbos from 07 April 1994 to the present. A total of 165,000 trouble free miles, thank God.

Toonman1

"What bits were falling off on the Focus??"

"What bits fell off the Focus, please?" would've been a more polite way of putting it.

We had problems with trim parting company with and falling off around the rear hatch, and numerous rattles and squeaks. Living in the middle of nowhere, with the nearest streetlighting 8 miles away, we also used to bemoan the lack of a "boot" (hatch) light. The hole was there, but nothing filled it. During the last service before it departed to NeverAuction Land, my Wife commented on this, to be told the model did indeed have one - just ours didn't... The Dealer never did ring to say the one it had ordered, was in stock. But then, we never expected them to.

As for your curt request to know why I've owned 4 Imprezas when they're so reliable; surely said reliability is a reason in itself? Maybe you expect me to keep my original 07 April 1994 (day of release in the UK) Impreza Turbo, which by now would've done 165,000 miles?

It was sold at 26months and 50K miles, to be replaced by another which lasted 22 months (and 50K miles), to be followed by another, sold at 42 months (and 55K miles). Can you see a pattern emerging...? I guess the current WRX will go at around... 50K miles.

Cheers

PS Inbetween No 3 and No 4, I owned a Seat Leon Cupra, but that was sold at 9 months (and 12K miles), as it was just crap, having all the major faults associated with the Leon.

Carlos The Jackel

Well i've owned 6 Fords and 1 VW and guess which was the most unreliable by a long way - the VW. I even got done for speeding in the bl@@dy thing. All car manufaturers make dodgy cars, some more than others - its all down to your luck. If you got to all the popular car BB's you find people complaining about their cars.

Toonman1

This is getting silly.

Why would I want to keep an almost 9 years old Impreza Turbo when I can afford to have a newer one? I don't have to explain my reasons to you anyway. You're not my ex Wife are you?

As for demanding a new car - I did say both Ford and the dealers weren't interested. The lease company cancelled the agreement (without penalty), and we were able to get something (as in buy this time), else. We didn't want a new Ford and don't ever again. This isn't my decision - it's my Wife's car, she pays for it and she can have what she wishes. It just so happens we both agree we'd never have another Ford.

Please just accept the fact that out of the 22 new cars I've bought/leased since 1984, I've had no real hassles with any of them, bar the Ford Focus and the Seat Leon Cupra. Neither make will grace the drive again. If you've had no probs, then that's great - I'm delighted for you.

Night.

RB5#295

Mike, I've got to say that I can't figure out why, but every time you put forward a reasoned argument (or even just your legitimate point of view) somebody seems to come over all **** on you. I know you like a bit of mature debate as much as the next bloke, but it's gotta **** you off sometimes...

Jonathan, do you still own the car you were driving in 1994 (or were you even old enough to be driving then)?

Fen

jonmorris

For gods sake mate, get off your high horse and chill out.

I didn't suggest you keep a 9 year old car did I? I just asked WHY you kept changing them? There must have been a reason and the answer appears to be that you wanted a newer car because you can afford to buy a newer car. So why did you have to make such a big song and dance about a simple question?

And RB5#295, I don't see why you need to start insulting me with "were you even old enough?". What does it matter? Exactly what age does someone have to be to have an opinion on here?

I'm 29, for your information. I don't own the same car as I did in 1994 either for much the same reason as Toonman1. I can afford to buy a new car when I want to which is why I bought a brand new, trouble free, Ford Focus after selling my high mileage, trouble free, Escort Cosworth.

Even my 1987 Ford Fiesta was trouble free, until some ******* broke into it and destroyed most of it. By the sounds of what I read on here, I'm obviously just extremely lucky!!

Jonathan

RB5#295

OK, Jonathan, my apologies for insulting you. Perhaps I was too quick to assume you were one of the arsehole element that seem to be on SN in quantity.

Surely though you can see that your implication that Mike's changing cars over a 9 year period was anything other than perfectly normal was a bit silly, and that he changed Impreza for Impreza implies that his experience was good, in much the same way you changed Ford for Ford.

His Focus was a dog and all manufacturers turn one out now and then, but he'll never have another. Personally I'll never have another Scooby after my experiences with my RB5 and I'm unlikely to have a Ford too, but that's because there are half a million of them on every street corner and I think the Focus in particualar is a styling disaster; take a look at the mishmash of lines around the top of the rear lights / tailgate as an example.

Fen

Toonman1

"gotta **** you off sometimes..."

It does Fen. I get tired of it. I guess my skin isn't thick enough to be a Forum member!

Hope you and the cars are doing well.

Cheers

The Zohan

Was a bit dramatic, yes braking and steering will be difficult with no assistance from the engine but not impossible.

Fault sucks mind and how typical for a dealership to deny there was a fault - w@nkers!

BTW Not just Ford dealers covering their own *****, lot of other do/will in my experience and IMHO, not a 'pop' at Ford by any means

[Edited by Paul Habgood - 2/5/2003 11:55:20 AM]

jonmorris

:-)

The US Focus has had loads of recalls but I'm not aware of many in the rest of the world. The US car is very different and only recently have Ford tried to "work out" how a car can be winning reliability surveys in Europe and turning out to be a lemon in their home market.

Forgetting the RS for a minute, I think it's fair to say that the Focus and Mondeo are actually very good, well built cars. How the Americans can make such a mess of it over there beats me, although I can guess...

It's something to do with the fact that they don't know how to make small, compact, cars at a low price without cutting corners. The spec level in the US for a Focus is actually pretty good - you get things like auto dimming mirrors, rain sensing wipers and other things that are either expensive extras or not available AT ALL in Europe. All at a lower price too.

This is great in theory, except Ford forgot that the cars they make, using different parts made at different factories, end up being unreliable. They rushed the development through, deciding to go it alone even though the car was already available in Europe, and changed specifications.

I don't know if Subaru do the same for the US market. I wouldn't be surprised though. They already make some odd variants for the US market, along with lots of other manufacturers.

(BTW, the brakes don't suddenly stop working for what it's worth!)


[Edited by jonmorris - 2/6/2003 9:10:41 AM]

Toonman1

My Wife had a Focus 1.8 Zetec on lease - heap of crap. In less than a year:

Windscreen wipers packed up in the rain on the 3rd day
Rust - Driver's door and hatch
Poor cold starting
Poor fuel consumption (never cured)
Wheels unbalanced on delivery
Duff Radio/Cassette
Various trim rattles and bits falling off
Bang from rear suspension
Clonk from front n/s
Driver's seat broke
Recalled twice for Mods
Duff gearbox (2 of them!)
Poor paintwork
Engine Oil leak
Fuse blew whenever Fog lights used (never cured - Dealer answer - "Don't use them...")
Fan blew warm air out, even on "Cold" setting (never cured - Dealer answer - "Should've bought it with Air con...")
Uneven tyre wear (never cured)

4 Dealers in 3 Counties (N Yorks, Co Durham and Cleveland) couldn't be @rsed, and neither could Ford. The lease company let us out of the deal early. We'd never have a Ford again.


[Edited by Toonman1 - 2/6/2003 6:23:51 PM]

jonmorris

The Focus is one of the worlds best selling cars, so you obviously expect some problems.

As a percentage of total cars made, it's probably tiny - making it one of the most reliable cars (don't you just love statistics?!).

Anyway, if you've had all those problems then I am amazed at how unlucky you are. Something big must have gone wrong for all these things to happen/break.

When I read about people anywhere saying "bits falling off" with regards to the trim, I always wonder what they mean. I've never owned ANY car where the trim has fallen off! What bits were falling off on the Focus??

Finally, besides the obvious desire to upgrade, why have you owned 4 Imprezas if they've been so reliable?

I did 60k in my Escort Cosworth in just under 4 years and they were also trouble free. The biggest jobs were replacing the clutch at 90k and rebuilding the turbo shortly beforehand. To be honest, the head gasket was likely to need some attention had I kept it for another year (taking it over the 100k mark).

My Escort RS2000 4x4, which I owned for little over a year, never had anything done to it at all.

One thing I've never mentioned is that before finding out about the Focus RS, I nearly "jumped ship" to get an Impreza. Two things put me off, the new shape which I detested and the fact that my local dealer treated me like an idiot. This is why I've never come on here slagging off the Impreza.


[Edited by jonmorris - 2/7/2003 1:42:38 PM]

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I own both a Subaru and a Ford also (because the ford was cheap, thats all ).
Ive a 94 Mondeo (price of 1300 quid), 70k on the clock and its just cost me 640 quid (ive owned the car just over a month) and included in that price were:- Cam belt, Drive belt, 80k service, front brake discs and pads, brake fluid change, an alloy pipe off the bottom of the radiator that had corroded and a couple of other minor bits....
Now the fact that this car is 8.5 yrs old means to me that its been built pretty well (only some minor scratches etc on the body work and immaculate interior, if in beige ) so does this mean that with the new focus they have taken a step back if an 8 year old car is in less need of attention?
All manufacturers have problems (even Subaru with the likes of hesitation, piston slap, dodgy gearboxes, clutch judder etc) that no doubt should have had a recall for.... Atleast Ford DID recall the focus (i still wouldnt buy one though ) and they ensure that their customers get a recall note (as long as the car is serviced with Ford as it would be like finding a needle in a haystack otherwise).

Tony

[Edited by TonyBurns - 2/7/2003 6:10:09 PM]

jonmorris

"Maybe you expect me to keep my original 07 April 1994 (day of release in the UK) Impreza Turbo, which by now would've done 165,000 miles?"

If it's so reliable then why not?! Modern cars don't break after reaching 100k!! Did you sell at 40-50k because you were worried about the resale value, to get a better specification model (STi or whatever) or just to get a newer plate?

I'm stunned about what you're saying about your car. No boot light fitted? Did you not consider demanding a replacement car? I would have taken every possible form of action against the dealer/FMC to get this resolved as the car was clearly unfit for the road.

I think even you would admit that had you got a replacement, there is no way that it could have had all those faults.

[Edited by jonmorris - 2/7/2003 7:47:13 PM]